skymedic 0 #1 November 16, 2001 Well as a few of you guys know, I had the biggest scare of my short skydiving career the other day. I have been debating whether I should post the story as I am still not sure what I did wrong or if I could have avoided the end result as it happened. Well here is my story.I was out the other day all excited to do a couple of jumps. I had just gotten off a 37hour shift (I know mistake #1, but we slept all night except one quick prisoner chase), so I was ready to have at it. I hadn't jumped in about 5 weeks due to my NASTY head cold/bacterial infection of my lungs. (sort of a mistake but not really, maybe too long not jumping, not sure on this one). well I got to the DZ and they were flying a porter and I manifested right away, as I still have about 80 jumps of a block purchase there. the winds were kinda screwy but not too bad. about 16-20 or so on the ground. I asked about the winds up top and got a 60 at10k and 40 at 6kor8k not really sure bout that. any way. I felt comfortable jumping but still kinda had the voice saying in the back of my mind "is this really good for you". but you know how men are and our gotta go attitude. So I get my nice spanking new, with only 12 jumps, javelin on and get on board. I was jumping with another guy and we were gonna try some head down...I said what the heck. we got to jump run and when it came to our turn I gave a quick check but not LONG enough of a check I would find out soon. I saw we were right over the DZ. the problem was I forgot that the uppers were cranking. (dumb ass mistake # 2 or 3) well...we get out and I get about 10 to 15 seconds of head down....( that was AWESOME) then I kinda lost grips and went flipping out...the guy I was jumping with was really good and made big time distance between me and him to avoid and high speed booboos....My Brand spanking new Time-out(the new kind) was screaming in my ear....I look down to check the spot....oh shit...we are down wind...fuck fuck fuck fuck....I still track like hell...pull a little higher than normal.....I am in the saddle at about 3000...I think well maybe I can make it back....yeah right...I realize that is just not gonna happen...well to give ya some back ground I have about 65 jumps and have never ever landed out....so I am thinking shit I am gonna land out and the winds keep dancing around...and blowing my fat ass around...great...I final am around a grand and decide that the median strip on this busy ass 4 lane high way is about as good as it gets as it is forest one way, powere lines and houses every where else and some industrial stuff too....I didnt wanna do a Pyke...so I went for the strip...what the hell my pre second out landing was gonna be on a strip of grass about 15 feet across with semis and shit flying past...ahh ya only live one..so I had to crab it over as it was a crosswind thing happening...no my luck won't make it an easy one of course...I just couldnt have it so the wind will come at me straight on...nope not me...I always gotta get screwed. well then the shit really gets fun!!! or not...there are some trees to the north/north west of the highway which runs basicly east/west...well the wind is cranking out of the north/northwest...and making weird changes too...well at about 100-150 feet my chute(hornet 210, loaded at 1.19) decides it wants to get caught up in the chorus of the trees and take a day off...well yo guessed it...at about 100-150 trees I suddenly feel like I am dropping big time, my audible is screaming, I am seeing trucks flying past me, and I look up to see a ball of shit...I grab my rear risers pump pump pump...then about 25-30 feet my canopy pops open so loud it sounded like a crack....out of some bad batman show from the 60's....I regained my oh shit composure and landed the bastard..didnt try to stand it up just PLF'd the hell out of it.funny thing is when I saw my chute do this all I could think of was "work the problem, work the problem,work the problem" but I am alive...that is the important thing.....now on to the other thing....1. I know I should really have not jumped that day due to the winds...but I figured it was border line and what the hell gave it a shot.....well that wont happen again.2. I was tired from work...this is another thing that probably impared my judgement in some form or another...whether it was my crap judgment of the winds and the spot or whether I should have checked the spot and pulled sooner than I did....3.I should learn to spot better....I am learning everytime and always check the spot.(which is more than you can say for some people) now whether myspot is good is a whole other thing...4.always plan an out...even if you have never planned an out..I have never had an out here so I really only kind of glanced at the over head pic.5. beware of NASTY rotors off of trees in close proximity of your little hankercheif of nylon over your melon...scared the SHIT outa me...Now I know some of ya are gonna bitch at me about this and that...I understand what I did wrong...or if I missed something add it on...but my problem is not with the above..I am already processing that...Right now I am spooked so bad by the collapsing canopy that I dont want to jump....I am almost afraid to jump...but I know that is just my mind playing with me. I also know I gotta get back up there...but I am volunteering for time at work to avoid a day off to jump..that is screwed up....well any ideas on how to get rid of this fear inside of me???sorry for the ramble just have been pondering this for too long..and needed to vent...thanks for the help...MarcBecause I fly, I envy no man on earth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingMarc 0 #2 November 16, 2001 Man, that'd spook anyone! I'm glad to hear you're ok though... little ol' inexperienced me, I dunno what to say in terms of advice except for the fear thing... after my early student cutaway... I just had to get back in the plane without letting myself dwell on any of it, because I knew the longer I sat, the harder it would get. Then once you're out in the air again, it'll all be fine once more!We're all behind you!Blue skies,Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #3 November 16, 2001 _________________________________________________well any ideas on how to get rid of this fear inside of me???--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------there ain't but one way, ya gotta get back on the horse that threw ya! i've had scary shit happen to me to, the cranium likes to try and play mind games with you. i just learned to ignore it. just last weekend, i had this wicked mal on my first jump of the day, i'm headdown, arch out at 5K do a 360, look around for traffic, as we had two fromations go out before me, and ya know ya can't be watching the ground when your headdown, but anywho, 3K, i pitch, line twist from HELL, all the way down to my risers, i kicked out of that, the whole time the canopy, a triathlon 170 is spininning vicously in a counterclockwise motion. i was freaking, i'm thinking, why me? first jump of the day, f**k! got rid of the twist, and the canopy is still in this violent spin, i'm horizontal to the earth, alt check, 2100', decision time, i looked up one more time, i'm inflated, no line over, no end cell closure, what the f**k? so i made the decision to unstow my brakes, then the canopy started flying correctly. i thought, thank you jesus!after getting back to the packing area, i asked one of my old jump masters (super sharp dude) derek, what could have caused it. we traced out the steering lines to the corner on each side, and the line on the left side had about 1500 twists in it, making it shorter than the right side, which had twists as well. this canopy had been telling me there was something wrong for a long time, i just ignored it, it had been opening off heading, and in a slight counterclockwise spin, and yet i chose to ignore it. new rule, check for steering line twist after each jump!so i know how you feel, i was tempted to go home, because i felt i wasn't mentally prepared to jump anymore. but i stayed, and i'm glad i did, i had four more wonderful sky dives!Blue Skies!Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RemiAndKaren 0 #4 November 16, 2001 I had a nasty collapse too... its was on a Sabre 210 (or was it my Sabre 170... sorry, cant remember, but one of these 2).It was much lower then yours (maybe 20 to 30 feet from the ground) and the"slap crack" noise sonds so familliar! The canopy never had a chance to fully re-inflate, but at least I didnt have much of a free fall... nice to find out that PLF training comes back naturally, dont it!But I can see how doing that in the middle of a highway could be even more of an "exitant"!!!I think your right on most of the points you made about what you learned. I just want to make one more.Lost of people get hurt or killed trying to get back from a bad spot... you all know what I mean (I'm sure I can make it .. I'm sure I can make it.. of shit! low turn.. bang)... If you're far , make the decision high, and keep your alternate landing area as your main plan, as opposed as your out.. yea, try to make it back, but that should be a second option...RemiMuff 914 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #5 November 16, 2001 well marc, i'm glad to see youre o.k. but one funny little joke i gotta post before give ya my take...were you afriad to get on top of the ambulance again after yopu fell off of it? haha THAT SHIT is dangerous. but at least you made the news.well from what i saw you knew of all the risks(even if it were an after thought) the whole time i was reading your post i was like OMG what about the rotors from the trees,cars and trucks.(they traffic porbably enhanced the danger a little.) but hey man you know what...you dealt yourself a shitty hand, BUT you knew how to respond to it...IMMEDIATELY!!!i think , if anything you should be a little MORE confident about your flying. your safe and you learned. thats the important thing. tell everyone about your mistake so they can possibly learn from it. thats what makes OUR sport gr8. it may be humbling but if you have had a humbling experience...YOU WILL. i said it is OUR sport b/c you still belong to it brother. go though it in your head talk about it with some people and try again.here's an anology that should make you laugh...experience is something you dont have until just AFTER you need it.safe landings,marc!have funLIVE FREE,skydiveJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pack40 0 #6 November 16, 2001 Is it common the US DZs are on the middle of cities, industrial areas? My DZ is in the middle of nowhere, unfortunatley surrounded by some forests but mainly agricultural lands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ramon 0 #7 November 16, 2001 you should be scared. it is very easy to get in a mess of shit in this sport. Complacency causes lots of accidents (ignoring the spot), and usually the only ones we read about are the fatalities.Just think, that scare probably gave you some extra vigilance that will be around a long time.ramon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #8 November 16, 2001 Use to fly in the land of turbulence and saw and experienced that stuff happening to me. A jumper with 11K jumps saw me perform a self-perfected PLF after such an event. He said when it got turbulent like that, he liked to fly final with just a little (~10-20%) brake in. I never had a problem after that, but quien sabe? Anyone else do that?flyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #9 November 16, 2001 Damn Marc! Sounds very scary!! I hope you beat it and get back in the air soon...that's the only 'cure'. The more you're on the ground thinking about it, the worse it gets. You need a good jump now to wipe the other out of your head. Good luck!Family Photos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divadiver 0 #10 November 16, 2001 Marc:You guys keep this up and you'll have to start some exclusive club for landing in the median strip. Kingie landed in the median strip his first jump, only from what I remember reading he didn't have quite the problems you had. To top that off I think he was laughing his ass off. Like everyone else said you have to get back in the saddle. If nothing else, go to the DZ and hang out, you'll be back up in no time. Diva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #11 November 16, 2001 Pretty freakin scary! But......ya gotta die of something right. Now you know how important it is to stay away from turbulent areas. A freeway has to be the worst I can think of other than right next to the runway when there is lots of traffic. Get back on the horse....ignore the sweaty palms and get back at it! Que hermana pinocha gratis?-Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicagoskydiver 0 #12 November 16, 2001 I've had a couple "oh shit!" moments but nothing like what you described. The important thing is that you reacted to it quickly and that you have learned some valuable lessons from it. You are now a more experienced jumper for it. By the way, we have a few things in common! We both went to UIC, we both have under 100 jumps and I used to be a medic in the army (ambulance driver)!Hackey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFKING 3 #13 November 16, 2001 Yeah....those median strips are something else. I had to crab on final also, but at least my canopy didn't close on me ! Marc, you did a great job riding it out and working the problem.And deep down, you know you have to get back up......and the sooner the better. Seems to me that you learned a few lessons on that jump.......Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #14 November 16, 2001 Well, Marc....like I said before...ya screwed up - plain and simple...you didn't accurately spot.. But, we all screw up.. Learn from it.. You dealt with it well.. You chose an alternate, didn't try to make it back to the DZ when you knew you probably wouldn't, and, IMO, you chose the only suitable alternate in that area.. I've landed in that very same median, right across from the FHP station.. Some people would've tried to make it back to the DZ, and ended up in one of those little areas in the industrial park.....not where I want to be.. The canopy collapse....well, as you know, that was likely due to the rotors off the trees.. Cars and trucks going by at 50-60mph doesn't help with smooth airflow, either.. Like I said, I got home early that day, and could've been jumping....but with those funky winds, I chose not to.. I've been up in some really nasty winds(the worst was 20 gusting to 40), and scared the hell out of myself.. I don't even consider those days anymore, as I'm sure you won't.. After my Crossfire collapsed on me, I was definitely spooked.. I had another canopy to jump that day, but didn't jump because I was in some pain.. I jumped again a couple days later, and, must admit.....I was a bit spooked when it came time for landing.. After I got on the ground, though, all the fear went right out the window, not to be seen again.. On the bright side.....I got an article written about me in Skydiving.. Get back in the saddle.. Go jump on Sunday.. I expect to see you out there when I stop by in the afternoon..Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #15 November 16, 2001 A wise old instructor once told me its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.......Watch the winds and learn to suss where to expect rotors thermals etc, if you do end up in turbulence, put on a little brake, and get ready to PLF. If you are gonna be landing on or near highways, disconnect your RSL (if fitted) and get ready to chop once you are on the ground. You don't want to land safey then get caught up on a pssing vehicle.....2c worth....(1.4 pence)CyaHave a safe weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Topcat 0 #16 November 16, 2001 Here's another cliche for you:Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement. Everyone is telling you to get back on the horse - you should. If it helps, do a hop and pop on a calm, sunny day from a lower altitude. If you are one of those AFF grads who freezes at the thought of leaving an airplane below 3500 feet, then do it from 4 grand, or 5. I find it a quick way to get rid of self-induced heebie-jeebies.Blue skies, and let us know when you jump again.-Sandy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #17 November 16, 2001 Well Marc, I gotta say. As soon as you said you mentioned the wind conditions and decided to jump anyway my jaw dropped and stayed open the whole time. Just a couple of thoughts:1) You're alive to tell the story so you did something right.2) Listen to that voice in your head telling you you're about to get in way over your head.3) Always know where your outs are and know your stop.4) Fatalities are never a one error incident; fatalities result from a series of errors, which you had.5) I was a bit concerned when you tracked and pulled high (amongst other things). Unless you plan to pull high and notify the groups around you and/or are the last solo out, you run the risk of a collision. Always be cognicent of other groups in the air. 6) Give yourself some credit. You are asking for advice. You've pondered your errors and are learning from them. *That* is important. 7) You've had a very valuable learning experience. Experience makes us better skydivers. You made some pretty dumb mistakes, but you are learning from them and you're here to tell about it. Now you can be more confident in your abilities and your judgements in the future. I'm pretty conservative when it comes to the people I jump with and there are people who have make lesser mistakes that I would never jump with again because they blamed their mistakes on someone else, you owned up to yours. That goes a long way. I'd jump with you because you made some mistakes and you learned from them, that says something.Now go and throw yourself from a plane and don't do any more dumb things :)Keith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #18 November 17, 2001 Well thanks for the support....I know I screwed up in a bunch of ways and learned a ton of stuff here....like spotting and learning to do it better....problem is spotting is definately more of an art than a science...and if you have seen my art you wouldnt let me spot...Now I will be at Deland again on sunday to try it again...dont konw if I will actualy jump..but I will be there to hopefully give it my best go. I think I will start off with a nice and easy HnP from 5,000 grand since I am one of those AFF grads that is afraid of anything lower . but anyway...thanks again. and if you ever have anything to add to help I am always willing to learn. my friends call me the sponge because I just soak up material...mostly medical but skydiving info is my new liquid to my soul...MarcBecause I fly, I envy no man on earth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmettoTiger 1 #19 November 17, 2001 QuoteIs it common the US DZs are on the middle of cities, industrial areas? My DZ is in the middle of nowhere, unfortunatley surrounded by some forests but mainly agricultural lands.Not at all. Most US DZs are just as isolated as yours. Some are closer in to cities, I think there are a few that got bit by the extra Class B airspace restrictions (Class B airspace is centered on the airports of 32 major cities in the US, and extends a few dozen miles out from those airports). But by and large DZs are going to be surrounded by undeveloped land. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #20 November 18, 2001 good deal marc,now you dont hafta change your sig. haha let us know how it wenthave funLIVE FREE,skydiveJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #21 November 18, 2001 Hey PT, every DZ that I jump at is surrounded by houses and forest with very few "outs"....well except for Zhills which has many places to land out....but Sebastian, and Deland..are tough to find some places to land out if you are on the wrong side of the airport...JT, I changed my sig anyway.....kinda for what happened...MarcRes Firma Mitescere Nescite Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #22 November 20, 2001 ok now explain wtf that means have funLIVE FREE,skydiveJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,147 #23 November 20, 2001 QuoteRes Firma Mitescere NesciteQuoteok now explain wtf that meansMm, let me think back to high school.. something like: strength will be with the ignorant.. or something liek that....maybe?Audentes fortuna iuvat, that might give you some help back in the saddle skymedicBlues,SkyDekker"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chickenhawk420 0 #24 November 20, 2001 That is scary stuff so don't feel down about doubts, fears normal it can help it can hinder but you would be a fool to be without it totally. Just get back in the saddle and ride it, atleast you've got a lesson that i don't think youll forget from life university. Good luck man, hope you get jumping again soon. Just think extra work or jumping? extra work or JUMPING i know which i would choose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #25 November 21, 2001 wow i must be one of the strongest bastards around have funLIVE FREE,skydiveJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
