Plane Anxiety? Looong

[Ducky 0]

Ok here's my dilema;
With 25 jumps to my credit I have step by step made a transition from being a lil nervous even fearful before jumps to just plain anxious even excited, except for one thing.
I seem to have developed a slight fear of planes on the climb to altitude. Its odd to me cuz that was the one thing I was sure I would not have a problem with when i started skydiving. I have flown all over the world. My first plane ride was in a small cessna at age 6. I have also ridden in helis and loved it. I have no fear at all of thrill rides, rollercoasters etc.
I have tried to pinpoint the root of my fear. The best I can figure is a combination of factors:
In my FJC nothing was even mentioned about the plain other than the exit. I was a little surprised at how packed in we were on the King Air on my first jump. The pilot sending all of us weight-less when leveling off didn't help with my nerves, but I don't recall actually being scared of the ride, I was too focused on my 1st jump.
The next time I recall any real issues was about a month ago when I was trying to get my A-license squared away. I spent the weekend at the DZ and did 5 jumps on Saturday. On all of the exits I had practiced my Hopnpop (exit stable, prac. pull 3 times) which I planned on doing for #20. Sunday morning first load (my 16th jump) we board the Otter and I'm chatting w/ my coach when at about 6,500 the plane banks Hard left and dives. My coach rushed to put on his helmet and I did the same. We had no idea of what was happening the pilot yells back and said experienced jumpers can exit, I check my alti it's 4,000. My coach said "let's get out, you need a HnP your ready for it we gotta go" I am blue in the face cuz I still have not breathed since we dove. I head for the door look back terrified to a reassuring audience and out. All goes well with the hnp, but all I can do is watch the plane to see where it crashes. It lands, as do I and all is well.
I walk inside still trying to make myself breath right and my coach gives my a high five. I see this as odd behavior considering what just happened. I later learned that the pilot ran through some clouds at 6,500 and started getting ice so he dove to get out of it and aborted the climb to Alti. We were never in real danger and his offer for jumpers to exit was only cuz we were in good position for HnPs and he didn't wanna spoil the whole load. I felt better about it all, but was still nerve-wrecked. They fired up the cessna saying we had a ceiling of 5,000 and I was encouraged to keep jumping so I did. The first ride to altitude in the cessna nearly forced me to be sick. It was not rough or anything I just was terrified any time we even began to bank or hit a "bump". I had been spoiled on jumping a King Air and Otter til then. The following 3 loads were as bad or worse and I was thankful when they finally shut it down due to weather.
After writing this small novel I know WHERE my fear comes from. Its very ironic that my fear for jumping has gone. I am greatful to get to the door and get the hell out of that plane. I just am not sure how to handle this fear. I don't think it is something that will prevent me from jumping, but I would sure love to be able to focus on other things on the climb to altitude.
I am curious if anyone else has had this issue and if so how they dealt with it? I am open to any and all advice. I also appreciate the few brave souls who may have actually read this far into my ramblings. So If ya see a guy sweating, and turning blue in the face on your next load say hello I'd love to meet ya :-)
kwak
Stupidity is a crime.

[Beachbum 0]

I'm sure no psych expert, but I'd try focusing on your dive plan and emergency procedures (or whatever ... just something to keep your mind occupied) on the way up. Getting ready for the ride up for my first I just KNEW I'd be scared shitless, but thanks to the instructors, I was going over all that stuff and didn't have time to get scared. My guess is that you'll get yourself over it after a while, once your brain starts to believe it's no big deal again. Then you can go back to worrying about getting out!

[lazerq3 0]

Well I ve only had two experiances that freaked me out in the plane. the first one we were climbing to alt when at about 7000ft the stall warning came on and then the plane went straight down and everything just floated, then straight up back to straight down. Scared the hell out of me cuase I didnt know what was going on but in the second dive we realized our pilot was just giving us an astronaut ride. Fun as hell but made me sick.
Second time we were in the 206 and we knew there was a guy going to do a HnP however whenever you open the door someone always yells DOOR!!! before it opens. Well me and my friend are sitting in the back facing back having a conversation when all the sudden SLAM!!!!!!WOOOOOOSHHHHH. the Hnp failed to yell DOOR so I wasnt really prepared for it!! For a split second I thought this is it We gotta get outta here!!! ANd then a few seconds after that initail scare realized what was going on!! Tell ya what though I was just waiting for someone to tell me to JUMP!
But niether of these experiances has caused any nervous ness about flying, just things that shook me for a minute!!!
BUT WHAT A RIDE!!!!
jason

[canopycudler 0]

Ducky:
I know exactly how you feel... You should have seen my first Cessna ride.. I did AFF and all my jumps were out of the King Air at 14K... UNTIL the hop n pop of Jump 18..people still laugh at the look on my face in that 182.that day.. i was petrified of that damn plane.. i just wanted OUT of it.. but one of the JM's said the most comforting words to me.. "ITS STILL THE SAME AIR" does it matter what plane your in? your still getting out into the same air.. and the dive will go the same whether you are at 14K or 3K... so the plane shouldn't matter".. Im good in all of them now.. being that I've had my share of the last 30 jumps (less the casa's) out of the Cessna.. thanks to our FREEZING temps here over the winter..
On the way to altitude.. try closing your eyes, and visualing something relaxing.. or dirt dive the jump in you head.. something to keep your mind off the plane.. that works too.. Breath deep and Relax.. ...
Blue skies & sunset jumps
...Tina

[AggieDave 6]

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I'd try focusing on your dive plan and emergency procedures

When I was having similar problems with the ride up thinking about emergancy stuff and cut-aways, etc always made me more nervous. I would think about the fun I was going to have in the air and it would relax me. Strangely enough, I found that if I look out the windows it helped me a whole lot. That or if I was by the door and could look out.
"I said don't look Ethel, It was too late, she'd already been incensed... "

[Viking 0]

i used to have a pretty bad case of door fear. I would get really jittery when it was my turn. I would grab what ever i could to keep steady incase the plane rocked or somthing, on my aff grad jump we did a wierd exit and i was told NOT to grab the bar well i did anyway becuase i really felt like i was about to fall out and screw up my exit. well as lick would have it they were planning a special exit for me anyway. My JM pushed me out with no count. This act made me reaslize that i could control a shity exit. i havn't had door feer since. I love the door now, i even did a canon ball roll out the door once (great fun by the way)
I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver

[AggieDave 6]

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i used to have a pretty bad case of door fear.

My problem was having to sit next to the door riding to altitude. This was a problem when I started going to an Otter DZ, since during the summer, after 2k or so, the door is opened for air. I would sort of freak and have to hold on to something for fear that I would fall out. Never mind the fact that I was wearing a parachute and was in the plane for that specific purpose... After a few jumps, that went away, though...now the door is fun...ever take a packing rubber band up with you? You can play "music" with it in the wind if you're sitting next to the door/in the door way..."I said don't look Ethel, It was too late, she'd already been incensed... "

[E150 0]

I get the impression that its fairly common to be anxious in the plane. I myself, put it down to the fact that it is not always easy to control your imagination.Whereas, during/after exit, its happening and you get on with it (no time for imagination).
During my AFF, the plane ride was definately the scariest bit (I used to edge towards the door and never look down).
I'm fine now, but after a few weeks off jumping, the anxiety comes flooding back.
Relax, breath and think about what a laugh the jump will be. Works for me!

[freeflir29 0]

Plane fear....There is but one cure. Go down to the airport and find a flight instructor to give you an introductory flight lesson. It should only cost about $50. You only fear things that you don't understand. Go fly a Cessna and see what it's about. I'm sure this will help you out. Although, you will feel a little funny in a small plane without a rig on...."I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[diverdriver 5]

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Well I ve only had two experiances that freaked me out in the plane. the first one we were climbing to alt when at about 7000ft the stall warning came on and then the plane went straight down and everything just floated, then straight up back to straight down. Scared the hell out of me cuase I didnt know what was going on but in the second dive we realized our pilot was just giving us an astronaut ride. Fun as hell but made me sick.
jason

Well, to all of you who think this is great fun, let me tell you what it is doing to the plane. The engines (turbines) aren't made for negative G's. Anytime you go from the floor to the roof that is negative G's. Zero G's would be where you just get light on the floor and you can push off and you don't come back to the floor. The vast majority of pilots out there don't know how to do the maneuver correctly. Sorry, to be a wet blanket. But your pilots are fucking the plane. The oil system isn't designed for prolonged negative G's like in this maneuver. The turbine wheels (on a turbine engine) are spinning at aprox. 15,000 to 30,000 RPM depending on type of engine. There are extremely tight tolerances on these wheels that are "plugged" by engine oil. What do you think happens when the oil stops flowing to these vital parts? Damage. You may not see it the first time, or second time. But down the road it will catch up to you. And it will probably happen to the "other" pilot who came in after the "really great pilot who always gave us a thrill" is gone. Been there.
On piston engines, same thing. The oil can stop flowing to the engine and damage can occur to only be found down the road. Nice huh? Please, don't ask your pilots to do this negative G maneuver and don't let them do it. Your little "yippy!" can turn into someone else's "Oh shit" down the road. You want to do acrobatics? Go get in a plane with a pilot rated for acrobatics. Jump Planes are not made to do this!
Chris Schindler
ATP/CFII
D-19012
www.DiverDriver.com

[Keith 0]

Well at least you know you can handle an emergency situation. Sounds to me that's what you're really worried about, "What if?" . . . well, now you know
Keith

[E150 0]

I was in a 'rigged' aircraft emergany at 5k. Great experiance, superb training.

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Maybe the best way to conquer the fear is to keep doing it until you are comfortable with it. Eventually you will become increasingly comfortable with the increased sensitivity of the smaller aircraft to air disturbances.
My first jump out of a C-172 with no door 3 years ago had me scared sick the whole ride up. Got to ride up in another C-172 this past weekend, again with no door, once in the J/M position, back to the panel - Bumpy? Yup, everytime we turned we were jostled around like mables in a jar. But fun as hell - ya hold on tight for the first part of the ascent (since you don't want to get tossed out the door at 100 feet), after that - hang a leg out, stick your head out the door and pant like a dog with it's head out a car window, have fun - no matter the plane, as long as the plane is above 1K feet, who cares if it bumps around - it's still in the air and will still fly, and if it decides to stop flying, you do have a parachute.....
I always get a kick out of people on commericial airliners grabbing the armrests white knuckled when hitting turbulance at FL350 - I mean, the pilot is highly trained and as long as a wing or tail doesn't fall off - he/she got 35K to deal with it.

[MarkM 0]

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When I was having similar problems with the ride up thinking about emergancy stuff and cut-aways, etc always made me more nervous. I would think about the fun I was going to have in the air and it would relax me.

Yeah, I'm with Aggie on that one. Once I'm in the plane I've already practiced what I'm gonna do, I'll either do it or screw it up, no amount of thinking about it in the plane is gonna help. On the plane ride I'm just focusing on keeping my nerves down to a good level. Playing a song in my head, looking out the window, taunting the other students are all good ways to relieve stress.
Other options:
Forget skydiving and take up base jumping(hey, no plane!)
Take flying lessons. You're afraid of unknowns not knowns.

[AggieDave 6]

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. Playing a song in my head

I'll find myself humming/singing to myself or falling asleep now days, though... That's one of the reasons I want to take my MP3 player with me.
"I said don't look Ethel, It was too late, she'd already been incensed... "

[Muenkel 0]

I would suggest trying visualization. One of the ways the olympic athletes keep the pressure and anxiety at bay is they visualize themselves doing what they need to do. Perhaps taking the time in the plane to mentally visualize what you want to accomplish in your jump may help. Also, basic anti anxiety techniques such as long deep inhales followed by slow exhales, mentally emptying all anxiety with each exhale.
Good luck to you and remember "This too shall pass.""I am a victim of my environment."
Chris

[Ducky 0]

I appreciate the responses and soe good advice. Like I said the ensuing jump is not what bothers me it's just thefreaking plane. On one of my Cessna rideslike, jump 18 we only made it to 3200 and my JM said I could ride the plane down if I felt like not going out at that altitude. I said what are you F*&kin nuts??? Before he could respond I was out the door.
I think perhaps a flying lesson as Clay and other's suggested would be good. I had thought of that and also possibly of riding the observer seat on the otter a few times. If nothing else I could actually get the confidence that the pilot CAN land the plane if needed.
I must say being able to actually see out helps. My first ride by the door in the Casa was cool. I can say i didn't take my seat belt off til about 10k though. I was on the end of the bench and I kept invisioning gettin bumped off and rolling out the open tailgate. It was an amazing view from there though.
kwak
Stupidity is a crime.

[freeflir29 0]

"It was an amazing view from there though."
You should see the view over the ramp of a C-130 at 800 Ft and you're giving the 1 minute call. When you look out to check the spot you can see individual pine cones on the trees and what people are wearing in the cars below....Pretty cool!!! "I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[MarkM 0]

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When you look out to check the spot you can see individual pine cones on the trees and what people are wearing in the cars below....Pretty cool!!!

And let me guess, sometimes you can see what the guy next to you ate for breakfast.

[freeflir29 0]

"sometimes you can see what the guy next to you ate for breakfast."
No ...that happens on the 1 hour 500 ft low level before you get to open the door on a nice, hot summer afternoon. I've never been sick but I have seen an hours worth of hard turns, turbulence, and 90 plus temps get the better of many...."I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[AndyMan 7]

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You may not see it the first time, or second time. But down the road it will catch up to you. And it will probably happen to the "other" pilot who came in after the "really great pilot who always gave us a thrill" is gone. Been there.

Never mind what it does to the two grand worth of camera gear many jumpers have strapped to their head.
If a pilot wants to screw his engines, that's his choice. All I ask for is warning.
Mullins likes to do this. He calls it a seatbelt test. He gives warning. It's fun.
Ask Roger about negative g's and a certain raft jump out of 10EA in upstate NY. Ask him how much the horizontal stabilizer repair cost... Fortunately, the skydiver that impacted it only needed minor "repair".
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[diverdriver 5]

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Ask Roger about negative g's and a certain raft jump out of 10EA in upstate NY. Ask him how much the horizontal stabilizer repair cost... Fortunately, the skydiver that impacted it only needed minor "repair".

I know all about that deal. And it wasn't 10EA. It was another one. And that pilot was about chewed up for it. Of course, the jumpers involved (I was told) also encouraged the pilot to do the negative Gs to get the raft out the door. I've flown raft jumps in the Otter and it is totally unecessary. But then again, jumpers aren't pilots and don't understand all the forces involved (and potential hazards) in certain maneuvers. Hence, my warning against asking a pilot to do them that hasn't done them before.
Chris Schindler
ATP/CFII
D-19012
www.DiverDriver.com

[Dutchboy 0]

We fear what we do not understand. That is why most pilots would never skydive. I think that a flight lesson or two might help you feel more comfortable. It also sounds like your pilots are ignoring some of the most important rules of flying - keep the passengers comfortable. Perhaps they figure since you are all skydivers you are crazy, and not entitled to a smooth ride.
If you want to try some flight training, then drop me a note. I think a little time in a Cessna 172 will make you feel much better.
You can't scare me flying the plane - I fly with Clay! The Dutchboy
Phil's Flying Enterprises, Inc.

[freeflir29 0]

"I fly with Clay!"
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!!
"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[diverdriver 5]

Exactly. Skydivers are not on board for our entertainment. If we're bored as jump pilots then we need to go do something else. It's just not professional to do things to make you feel uneasy.
Chris Schindler
www.DiverDriver.com