GoldenKnights jump ship colides with another plane

[Viking 0]

do those guys wear pilot emergency rigs??
I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver

[PalmettoTiger 1]

What kind of aircraft crashed? I think the bailout rig requirement varies from plane to plane; I don't know the regs exactly. I've done a whuffo ride in an Twin Otter without a rig, and every pilot and passenger I've seen in a 182 or King Air wore a rig. It might be something about the bulkhead separating the pilot and co-pilot from the cabin that makes the Twin Otter exempt (or no one told me and let the pilot slide by too).
But even if he had a rig, I can think of dozens of reasons why he didn't have the opportunity to use it. The collision may have been too low - suppose it happened at 2500 feet with no warning, then he spends 1500 ft trying to get control, and by the time it's clear he had to get out, there's not enough time. Or, the collision could have been catastrophic to the point where he just couldn't get out (violent spin, aircraft totally mangled). Not really likely if the other plane involved managed to land, but still a possibility I guess. The most likely thing that comes to mind is that he may have regained control of the aircraft and was bringing it back in when some damaged component finally failed and rendered the aircraft uncontrollable.
I dunno. I guess I shouldn't speculate too much until we know more... hopefully since the other aircraft returned okay, we can eventually have a good idea of what happened and why, and know what we have to guard against to keep it from happening again.
PTiger
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

[Iflyme 0]

Working in the news business, I always take a bit of time to check a bit deeper into plane crash stories ... really sucks to find out it is a jump plane ... and that skydivers and their pilots are in peril.
"Men weren't meant to ride
With clouds between their knees"
Five For Fighting

[n2skdvn 0]

lets have a moment of silence for the pilot and my prayers to the family

blue skies forever!
if ya can't dodge it RAM IT !!!!!!

[Billy 0]

Going to Eloy for my 100th,,
timing sucks .. but we will think of our brother an dedicate the jump to him,, promise!
Don't read this shit down here,, it's nonsense,,,

[PhreeZone 15]

Latest...http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=705303&nav=14RS7tFF
Pilot Dies In Plane Collission Involving Military Aircraft
Email story to a friend
By Dan Marries
A mid-air collision over Marana has killed an Army pilot. An Army Golden Knights plane on a routine training mission collided with a civilian skydiving aircraft around 10am Friday morning.
The Army's UV-20 Porter aircraft went down about a mile away from the Marana Northwest Regional Airport.
The Golden Knights are considered the world's best parachute demonstration team. They've dazzled millions of people since their inception 40 years ago. But now they are mourning the death of one of their pilots, Chief Warrant Officer Lowell Timmons, of Fort Bragg, NC, where the Golden Knights are based.
Timmons was behind the controls when his aircraft collided with the Marana Skydiving plane.
"It's a terrible tragedy that happened today," says Lt. Col. Marian Hansen, an Army spokeswoman. "The loss of one of our soldiers is always a sad day and our condolences go out to his family."
Immediately following the crash, police and military personnel cordoned off the site. Amazingly, the pilot of the skydiving Cessna managed to land -- despite the heavy damage to his left wing.
For pilots like Shelby Futch, the mid-air collision comes as a complete shock, especially between two skydiving planes.
"He did a good job getting it down," Futch says of the Cessna pilot. "The skydiving planes and jump planes are very professional and they're flying up and down all day long so they're very good pilots and they're disciplined in everything I've seen."
Military officials say there were four Golden Knights that jumped out of their plane before the collision. Witnesses on the ground say another four jumpers managed to escape Marana Skydiving's plane after it had been hit.
"They were just opening their parachutes so they had just jumped out of the Cessna," says Father Mike O'Neill, a witness."
Tony Frost, the owner of Marana Skydiving, owns the plane which managed to land safely. He told News 13 everyone at Marana Skydiving is devastated by the death of Warrant Officer Timmons, saying they've lost a dear friend.
The Golden Knights are well-known there because they train at the airport during the winter.
Frost says his pilot's actions to land the Cessna were heroic. That pilot was wearing a parachute and could have jumped but didn't want to for fear the plane could hit a home or something else on the ground.
This is the second fatal military accident in Marana in recent history.
In April 2000, a Marine V-22 Osprey crashed at the airport during a night training mission. 19 marines died. The aircraft was grounded for a year pending an investigation.

Cause I don't wanna come back down from this cloud... ~ Bush

[diverdriver 5]

That's the scarriest thing I think about flying jumpers: running into another plane. Blue Skies brother.
Chris

[Jumperpaula 0]

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They were just opening their parachutes so they had just jumped out of the Cessna," says Father Mike O'Neill, a witness."

Confused, and no "new news" today. Was the Cessna a skydiving plan filled with jumpers? Did the Jumpers jump and Golden Knights jump and the Porter pilot died but the Cessna pilot landed safely? And did the Cessna jumpers jump before the mid-air collision or after the plane was in trouble?
More Info ....
Fly Your Slot !

[freeflir29 0]

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Witnesses on the ground say another four jumpers managed to escape Marana Skydiving's plane after it had been hit.

"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[PhreeZone 15]

Paula.... I thought the artical covered everything but I got this in the roumor mill today... its from a friend of a USAPT member who is frineds of Cheryl Stern who was there...
The Knights Porter droped the jumpers, and was decending, the Cesnna full of civilan jumpers was climbing and the planes collided. The jumpers exited, the porter crashed and the Cesnna was heavly damaged on the left side but landed safely.
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB

[PalmettoTiger 1]

On the CNN page carrying the AP report, there's a picture of the crashed Porter. It's just demolished. Destroyed. Very frightening, and saddening at the same time. To my unexpert eyes, it looks like it just plummeted after the collision and hit the ground very hard.
PTiger
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

hit the ground very hard.

You can say that again....since the right wing was sheered off and the fuselage crumpled. Man that sucks! I never noticed....do those pilots wear rigs?
"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[PalmettoTiger 1]

Quote

do those pilots wear rigs?

Like I said above I don't know, but I think the regs from plane to plane... maybe DiverDriver can help us out on this question?
PTiger
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

[freeflir29 0]

I don't think pilots are REQUIRED to wear rigs. It's a personal preference. As far as I know only Observers are required to wear them by the FARs.
"I only have a C license, so I don't know shit..right?"-Clay

[max 0]

Most jump pilots are required to wear rigs to the best of my knowledge, but since this was a military aircraft, they are not required to wear them. Beside, they way I understand it happening, I doubt the pilot would have had time to get out and use it if he was wearing one.

[PhreeZone 15]

I've never had a jump pilot that was wearing a rig....
I wish you would step back from that ledge my friend... ~3EB

[Iflyme 0]

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I've never had a jump pilot that was wearing a rig....

Our pilots in the C-182 wear rigs, but I can't remember if the pilot of the Twin-otter (from Kapowsin) or the pilot of the King air (from Pitt Meadows) did...
"Men weren't meant to ride
With clouds between their knees"
Five For Fighting

[skyhawk 2]

condolances to the family
the only thing you learn at school is to memorize

[kmcguffee 0]

The pilot is supposed to wear a rig if the door is opened in flight and the pilot is not in a separate cabin from the area where the door is opened.

[bbarnhouse 0]

A couple of things.......the cessna was carrying tandems according to sources in Eloy. Clipped the wing of the porter. Lots of rumors flying about the ascent and decent of the planes and thier proximity. I choose to wait for the facts.
I have seen many pilots wearing rigs, maybe diverdriver could help us out on that one. Again my prayers and condolences to the family of the lost pilot.
Just a thought folks.....remember to say thanks to your jump pilot next time you see him/her. They really don't get to hear those words very often.
Cheers.
B
It only takes a little pixie dust......

[PalmettoTiger 1]

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They really don't get to hear those words very often.

True dat... I remember saying "Thanks for the rides, Troy!" on the ground one day and got the strangest look from the pilot and the coach I had been jumping with.
PTiger
I'm stepping through the door
And I'm floating in a most peculiar way

[bbarnhouse 0]

I'm sure you did! As I said they need to know that we appreciate them. They put up with a lot of crap from us at times.
Cheers
It only takes a little pixie dust......

[skybytch 259]

Quote

I've never had a jump pilot that was wearing a rig....

Hmmm... now that you mention it, I've never had a jump pilot...
Okay, okay, I know this is a serious thread, sorry...
pull and flare,
lisa
--
I'll be in the bar... you'll find me...

[diverdriver 5]

The regs say that anyone sitting in the "cabin" has to have an emergency bail out rig if the door is open in flight. Now, I can not speak to the porter as to whether the pilot is considered to be in the "cabin" or "flight deck".
However, if the plane you fly jumpers in has a horizontal tail that can catch a premature deployment then it should be mandatory to wear a bail out rig. That's my personal suggestion.
Chris Schindler
ATP/CFII
D-19012
www.DiverDriver.com

[Iflyme 0]

I try to thank the pilot for the ride EVERY jump... at $6/flight, our pilots aren't in it for the money... ya can't put "thanks" in the bank, but it goes a lot further that a few bucks does.
"Men weren't meant to ride
With clouds between their knees"
Five For Fighting