War on terror

[FallingILweenie 0]

From a Bill Hicks routine:
"if you are at a ballgame, and two people get violent, are they drunk or high?" (Crowd goes "drunk")
"exactly. I have never seen 2 people on pot get into a fight because it is fucking impossible.--'Hey buddy!' 'Hey What?'.....end of argument! "
hehehe bill hicks funny.
"Marge, it takes 2 people to lie. One to lie and one to listen."
-Homer

[skyhawk 2]

there wouldnt be any war between humans under the one world government thing, however there alot of other problems that this would bring and im sure after awhile humans would travel the stars to find someone to biff its sad but its part of us to fight, great leaders can get peace greater leaders can cause wars
Opinions are like a-holes everyone has one, the only one that does you any good is yours and all that comes out is shit

[rhino 0]

One world government????
As good as it sounds I think that would make things worse than they are.. Most of the assholes that are in power are simply not willing to give up the power and the lifestyle they have being in their positions. Saddham, Khadafe, on and on and on..
A one world power? As long as it wasn't ONE person sitting in the head seat it might work? Then again a world congress scares the hell out of me. Congress is fucked up enough as it is. They can get 10-20+ percent pay raises but our military personel are struggling to pay the bills.
This whole war on terror thing has at least in a way given everyone a common goal.. Getting rid of assholes.
My morning rant is over.. Not really a rant just my 2cents. I have a better idea.. Let's make at least ONE skydive a day mandentory for ALL people in the world. One skydive a day, boobies and sex at least once a night? And free massages courtesy of the one world power.. Rock on!!!
Sgt. Cowan
Blue Skies .....

[freeflir29 0]

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One world government????

Yeah...there would be lots of peace. SLAVES don't complain much........
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[SkyDekker 1,145]

Clay, I wasn't trying to lay blame. In the end a US plane dropped a bomb on Canadian troops. I brought up the incident to indicate that it is possible to disagree with an act yet support those acting it out. I am sure that the continued massive under-funding of the Canadian militairy plays a role in this accident as well.
SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

[freeflir29 0]

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I am sure that the continued massive under-funding of the Canadian militairy plays a role in this accident as well.

That never helps. This was definately a factor in the stupidity that killed a friend of mine. While the pilot that killed him was a Squadron commander with literally thousands of hours in F-18's he wasn't all that current. Especially with night operations. He had the absolute minimums that the regulations stipulated to let him fly. Thanks Mr Clinton!!!! I'm sure Jay's wife and son feel better that you saved a few bucks.
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[steve1 5]

Clay,
Sorry about your friend. Currency is important. A friend of mine was a Marine fighter pilot in Vietnam flying Phantom jets. They were refueling over Vietnam (in flight). They were all in formation behind a C-130 tanker waiting to move up into position, for their turn to refuel. About that time, a new Navy pilot who hadn't been in country very long, came screaming in out of the clouds. He slammed his jet into the side of the C-130. This created a huge fireball throwing metal everywhere. My friend's wing-man had to bail out over the Gulf. Everyone in the C-130 and the Navy jet died. Scary huh? Steve

[billvon 2,434]

>War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded
> state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is
> much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight: nothing he
> cares about more than his own personal safety: is a miserable creature who has
> no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions and blood of
> better men than himself.
You miss my point. We will always have great men willing to die for their country, religion and ideals, and they will always be needed. Someday, their objective will simply not be to kill as many of the people they disagree with as possible. MLK has shown us that it's possible to sacrifice one's life for a cause, and to do it without bloodshed. I hope that the future holds more men like him than men like Milosevic, Bin Laden and Hussein, and that our differences are settled in the seats of goverment througout the world rather than through the deaths of our fathers, mothers and children.
Again, if anyone wishes otherwise I very much hope they are never in positions of power.
-bill von

[Muenkel 0]

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You miss my point. We will always have great men willing to die for their country, religion and ideals, and they will always be needed. Someday, their objective will simply not be to kill as many of the people they disagree with as possible. MLK has shown us that it's possible to sacrifice one's life for a cause, and to do it without bloodshed. I hope that the future holds more men like him than men like Milosevic, Bin Laden and Hussein, and that our differences are settled in the seats of goverment througout the world rather than through the deaths of our fathers, mothers and children.
Again, if anyone wishes otherwise I very much hope they are never in positions of power.

And how about some women? I think Mother Teresa was one of the greatest humanitarians of our time.
If you're not confused, you're not paying attention.
Chris

[billvon 2,434]

>I'm just wondering if that is possible. I look at the present evolutionary state of
> man and I don't really see a whole lot of difference from the people who were
> once killing each other on battlefields with swords and clubs.
I do. 99% of the people in the world now live in peace. Most people don't spend their lives in fear for their lives and the lives of their children. We have had great leaders who have won the freedom of their countries and equality for their peoples without violence. We have a world government which, while still in its infancy, has managed to avert or mitigate several conflicts. We're getting there.
Look at North America. It's had a pretty bloody history, but for the past 150 years has had an extraordinary number of people living in peace, despite massive differences in religion, race and income. Our experience with history has shown larger and larger areas managing to live in peace. While we're not there yet, we're closer than we've ever been, I think.
>I really think war is a fact of life and is going to be with us until our own demise in
> the future.
If that's true then we will create our own demise. I'd like to think we're smarter than that. We can be if we choose to be.
-bill von

[billvon 2,434]

>Then yeah, now, no. It is very easy to criticize this in hindsight. Too bad the guys
> that made the decisions can't see into the future huh?
That is exactly correct! No one can see the future - but everyone can see the past. The best anyone can hope to do is learn from experience. And to do that, you have to say three words. For some people, they are the three hardest words to say in the english language. They are "we were wrong."
We were wrong to give millions to a terrorist organization. You have to admit that before you can come to the realization that, just maybe, we shouldn't give millions to an anti-american terrorist organization in the future.
Now, just because we were wrong does not mean that anyone sucks. Everyone makes mistakes. Heck, we wrote slavery into our consitution! Thank god that someone finally had the balls to say "we were wrong" about that, rather than trying to defend an ever-more-intenable position just because they didn't want to admit we made a mistake.
>>Do you support the bombing of embassies throughout the world? If not, why
>>are you so critical of the soldiers and their execution of their duties?
>No, I am not critical of them.
So you support bombing of foreign embassies? And, recently, Canadians? Well, on this, we have to agree to disagree, I suppose. I don't think we should kill Canadians.
Everyone screws up. We do, soldiers do, generals do, governments do. We should expect them to do the best job they can, and support them both when they do a great job and when they screw up. We should _not_ pretend they don't screw up, because perfection only happens in Steven Segal movies.
-bill von

[kmcguffee 0]

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So you support bombing of foreign embassies? And, recently, Canadians? Well, on this, we have to agree to disagree, I suppose. I don't think we should kill Canadians.

I really don't believe that is what I said. I said:

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No, I am not critical of them

If it makes it easier for you to rephrase my comments into something that is easy to argue against, go ahead. I'm not saying that I agree with what happened but I'm also not sitting around criticizing them. When my son does something wrong and he is giving 100% I don't criticize him. We figure out what went wrong and how we can do it better next time. If you are not contributing to the solution of the problem and you are constantly yacking about how everyone else is screwed up then you are criticizing.

[freeflir29 0]

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I don't think we should kill Canadians.

Hmmm...seems you haven't smoked Canadian cigarettes before... I suppose we could give them clemency based on their beer though....and the hotties in Kingston. "It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[AndyMan 7]

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and the hotties in Kingston...

Tell me about it. My dads cottage is 20 minutes east of Kingston....
Sumertime... and the living is easy.....
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[freeflir29 0]

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My dads cottage is 20 minutes east of Kingston....

So when am I coming to visit? I need another trip to AJ's and whats that other place? Stages???? "It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[steve1 5]

>If that's true then we will create our own demise. I'd like to think we're a lot smarter than that. We can be if we choose to be.
Bill,
I would like to think this also, but there are so many countries out there whose governments are run by people who are corrupt, greedy, hateful, and who don't have much for smarts. Even some of our own leaders fall into this category at times. I really think it is idealistic thinking to believe that war will someday become a thing of the past. There are so many primitive thinking people in the world today. Some of them even have nuclear weapons now. I would like to be optimistic about our future, but in my mind it looks quite scary. I just don't see our world heading in a positive direction. If there was a way to end war I'd be all for it, but I just don't see how that is possible. With a world filled with increasing population and decreasing natural resources I see a future filled with a lot more conflict not less........Steve (The Doom Sayer)

[SkyDekker 1,145]

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Tell me about it. My dads cottage is 20 minutes east of Kingston....

That would be around Gananogue, would it not?
Friends of ours have a beautiful cottage on the river there.
SkyDekker
"We cannot do great things, only small things with great love" Mother Theresa

[freeflir29 0]

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With a world filled with increasing population and decreasing natural resources I see a future filled with a lot more conflict not less

The more monkeys you put in the cage the less hospitable they are to each other.....
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[billvon 2,434]

>>I really don't believe that is what I said. I said:
"No, I am not critical of them."
Critical of them means you disagree with what they did. If that's not what you meant, if you meant that you disagree with their bombing of an embassy but still support them, then I agree with you.
>I'm not saying that I agree with what happened but I'm also not sitting around
>criticizing them. When my son does something wrong and he is giving 100% I
>don't criticize him. We figure out what went wrong and how we can do it better
>next time.
Exactly! And that's exactly what I meant when I said "we can do better." We can. We can kill fewer innocent people. We can do a better job of not killing our _own_ soldiers. We can be more effective in getting Bin Laden and his associates (the expressed target of this war, as yet unrealized.) We can, in the future, avoid the mistakes of the past. That means acknowledging that we _do_ make mistakes, that we sometimes bomb innocent people or even our own troops. I very much hope that, in the future, we will do better. I will do my best to support our government and our military in that attempt.
-bill von

[AggieDave 6]

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We can. We can kill fewer innocent people. We can do a better job of not killing our _own_ soldiers.

We are doing better, and it will continue to get better. Unfortunately there is no geni, there is no lamp, it will not instantly get better. Look at past wars and look at the last couple modern conflicts (Gulf War, etc) and you'll notice that we are doing a hell of a lot better then in the days of yore.
A human cannonball, I rise above it all
Up higher then a trapeze, I can fly

[freeflir29 0]

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We can do a better job of not killing our _own_ soldiers

They are working on that. It's called "Land Warrior" I think. It's a system that combines Commo, GPS, weapons sighting, and battle tracking systems. The only problem is the prototype weighs around 100 pounds. Not very practical considering the average soldier is already carrying somewhere around 100-150 lbs of crap. Make that 250 and he'll go about 10 steps before he falls over..LOL. If they ever get it to a practical weight it will save many lives. No more Private Gomer or Sgt Lostinthewoods reporting incorrect positions and getting themselves killed.
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[kmcguffee 0]

When I left the service it was down to about 25 lbs (a little over a year ago). Still too high but they are making progress. We tested it out at JRTC and there are still alot of bugs in the equipment but it is definitely feasible in the near future. I think the goal for implementation is 2008-2010. That crap is hot though. It is really geared toward urban combat (MOUT).
The problem the Army is starting to run into is too much information. It is hard for a battalion level staff or company level HQ to digest all of this information quick enough to make it useful. ALOT of useful information is never analyzed because they don't have the information processing techniques down. Working in an Infantry Battalion Command Post is like a Chinese fire drill that goes on 24 hours a day. Then try doing it when all of the participants are working on 2-4 hours of sleep or none (in alot of cases).
It is really hard for me to sit back while I am warm, well fed, comfortable, and with 8 hours of sleep and criticize the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines in Afghanistan or anywhere else for that matter. When you are in a situation like war puts you in even the simple things (like remembering your mission) are extremely hard to do. Small mistakes don't just disrupt and inconvenience, they kill. You call in a grid coordinate for a fire mission incorrectly and it can cost you and alot of other people thier lives. Plus you don't have the time nor resources to check and double check. You make a decision with the information at hand and go with it full speed because inaction will get you killed too. Then if you do everything right you can still be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get killed. Until you understand what you are talking about you really ought to sit back and let the experts handle it.

[rhino 0]

Well spoken.....
Sgt. Cowan
Blue Skies .....

[freeflir29 0]

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It is really geared toward urban combat

Mmmm...the last time I saw it, it had some stuff that would be quite handy in any environment. Such as slaving the thermal sight on your weapon to the eye piece. Allows you to shoot in the dark and in MOUT around corners without exposing much. The map and tracking features were great for knowing who is where in your team at night when the "fog of war" strikes. Lots of good stuff. Hope they get it ironed out and practical. I'm convinced that will save lots of lives.
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[kmcguffee 0]

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Mmmm...the last time I saw it, it had some stuff that would be quite handy in any environment.

You're right. I just meant that they are really focusing on making it useful in urban terrain because the Army leadership currently believes that most battles in the future will be fought in urban terrain. When we tested it we did most of the testing in the MOUT City at JRTC (Shugart-Gordon). We also tested it in the woods but not as much.