christopherm 0 #26 April 23, 2002 >Right! Instead, use the US military numbers of a few dozen deaths.Not at all what I implied. I just said to make sure the "sources" were giving proven facts. Whether that source be Mr. President or Osama. You aren't really as good at arguing as you think, you do however give this amazing impression by twisting everyones' words. Good job.>You sound like a true patriot!Your absolutely right, I do love my country and I'm sure that somewhere deep inside, you do to. But once again, you are twisting my words. My point was that if you wanted to make a legitimate point, you should present both sides of the story. Had I been writing your post I would have also listed numerous things the U.S. had done right, they are there believe it or not. When you don't give both sides of the story, you become no better than the media, (conservative or liberal).>Comment: Maybe we should think twice about using nuclear weapons in the Middle East.>Approved true-patriot reply: Why do you hate America so much?Once again, this is typical of someone trying to cover up the fact that they have no real good point to make. Nuclear weapons being used on the Middle East isn't even a viable issue. Then yet again you highly exagerate the answer to that question with your amazing ability to understand my political position.Oh well, this seems typical in your arguments and I suppose you won't ever learn. If you do, kudos to you.-So, how hard is the ground?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #27 April 23, 2002 >If you read the history, this process you look forward to was fueled by war, by> people's deaths. Countries, tribes, regions, etc. are not going to 'unite' under one> government without some crisis that requires them to do so to ensure their> survival.Perhaps not, but once united, they often seem to be able to remain peaceful in ever larger numbers. We have been at peace here in North America now for around 150 years. Europe has been doing pretty well. Even the troubles in Ireland are fading. In a lot of places, things are improving.>Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse.Which are? What is worse than a government/organization that systematically kills innocent people?>There are things worth dying for. If you don't believe that then I definitely >don't want you in my fox hole.If you want people to _be_ in that foxhole I don't want you in any sort of position of power. There is nothing worse than war. We will someday outgrow it. That day is not today (unfortunately) but the day will come when people no longer kill each other because of the color of their skins, uniforms or flags.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #28 April 23, 2002 >Bush, Rumsfeld, they are looking out for our best interests in the best way> possible trying not to instigate WW3. I believe they are trying to look out for our best interests. If this were a monarchy, then they would do that in a vacuum. Since we are in a democracy, and Bush has not yet declared war on the entire world, the rest of the government (and, by proxy, us) has a lot to say about what happens.I'm sure Reagan was looking out for our best interests in the 1980's when he gave millions of dollars and tons of weapons to Al-Quaeda, to encourage them to rebel against the Russians in Afghanistan. Looking back, that wasn't the best idea, was it? If we can avoid making a mistake like that again, we should.>Common Bill.. More is happening then you are being lead to believe. Apparently> Uncle Sam's tactic is effective. I hope you're right, and I hope we are not creating the next generation of terrorists with our actions. Time will tell.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #29 April 23, 2002 QuoteThat day is not today (unfortunately) but the day will come when people no longer kill each otherbecause of the color of their skins, uniforms or flags.Or religious beliefs... May that day come in our lifetimes.pull & flare,lisa[subliminal msg]My website Go Now[/subliminal msg] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #30 April 23, 2002 WE ARE THE WORLD There comes a time when we need a certain callWhen the world must come together as oneThere are people dyingOh, and it's time to lend a hand to lifeThe greatest gift of allWe can't go on pretending day by dayThat someone, somehow will soon make a changeWe're all a part of God's great big familyAnd the truth - you know love is all we need(CHORUS )We are the world, we are the childrenWe are the ones who make a brighter dayso let's start givingThere's a choice we're makingWe're saving our own livesIt's true we'll make a better dayJust you and meWell, send'em you your heartSo they know that someone caresAnd their lives will be stronger and freeAs God has shown usBy turning stone to breadAnd so we all must lend a helping hand( REPEAT CHORUS )When you're down and outThere seems no hope at allBut if you just believeThere's no way we can fallWell, well, well, let's realizeThat one change can only comeWhen we stand together as one( REPEAT CHORUS AND FADE ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #31 April 23, 2002 >Your absolutely right, I do love my country and I'm sure that somewhere deep> inside, you do to. But once again, you are twisting my words. My point was that> if you wanted to make a legitimate point, you should present both sides of the> story. Had I been writing your post I would have also listed numerous things the> U.S. had done right, they are there believe it or not.So list those numerous things. As I mentioned in my original post, the US has successfully removed the government of Afghanistan from power, and that has been their one real victory in the war on terror. What are the others?>Once again, this is typical of someone trying to cover up the fact that they have> no real good point to make. Nuclear weapons being used on the Middle East> isn't even a viable issue. Read the papers. The Pentagon recently changed its stance on nuclear weapons use. It listed seven countries (including Iraq and Iran) that were potential targets, and changed the situations in which they could be used. They now include "in the event of surprising military developments" instead of just retaliation against CBN attacks against the US. In the same report it recommends that the US should be ready to use nuclear weapons in an Arab-Israeli conflict.In March, Bush said he would consider use of nuclear weapons to prevent terrorism - such a threat could be used "as a way to say to people who would harm America: 'Don't do it.'" Note that this does _not_ mean that they are planning to use them now. But, despite what you say above, they are apparently considered a viable option in the war on terror. Personally, I think that's a mistake.Some references if you'd like to research it yourself:http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1864000/1864173.stmhttp://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSTopNews/bush_mar13-ap.html>Oh well, this seems typical in your arguments and I suppose you won't ever learn.I would recommend some research on your part before you start with the insults - it would make your position more tenable..-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #32 April 23, 2002 QuoteWhat is worse than a government/organization that systematically kills innocent people? I didn't realize we were talking in such extremes. Are you sure you don't write the arguments for the NRA? I didn't know our government 'systematically kills innocent people'. What is worse than innocent people dying IMO? 1. Living the rest of our lives in an oppressive society. 2. Living the rest of our lives fearful of when the next terrorist attack is going to kill me, my family, or my friends. 3. My children dying in a terrorist attack because I valued my life so much I refused to fight for them. Just to name a few. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #33 April 23, 2002 >>Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse. >I didn't realize we were talking in such extremes. Are you sure you don't write the> arguments for the NRA? I didn't know our government 'systematically kills> innocent people'. I did not suggest they did. I was answering you when you said "Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse." To me, someone who kills innocent people is about the worst thing there is.>1. Living the rest of our lives in an oppressive society. Everyone on the planet lives in an oppressive society. Every country has laws that force you to do certain things and not do others. The penalty if you disobey is imprisonment or death. We have one of the least oppressive societies around - I hope we will continue to have such a society.Interestingly, recent acts by the Homeland Security office (ability to hold someone indefinitely without charging them if they are considered a possible terrorist) make our society more oppressive, not less oppressive. Hopefully we will carefully consider proposals to continue in this direction. Rememer the old quote - "they that sacrifice essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither.">2. Living the rest of our lives fearful of when the next terrorist attack is going >to kill me, my family, or my friends.Irrational fear is a poor basis for killing human beings. If it is a good basis, then the terrorists have really won - after all, they use the same rationale to go after the US.> 3. My children dying in a terrorist attack because I valued my life so much I> refused to fight for them. See 2) above.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kmcguffee 0 #34 April 23, 2002 QuoteI did not suggest they did. I was answering you when you said "Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse." To me, someone who kills innocent people is about the worst thing there is. We have diverged in what we were talking about. I am talking about 'Innocent people dying' as the result of a war or conflict. Although we do everything we can to prevent the unnecessary loss of life sometimes it can't be avoided. Does this mean we should never go to war again because an innocent might be killed? I would argue no. Quote Everyone on the planet lives in an oppressive society. Here we go taking everything to extremes again. It's all relative. I think you know what I mean.QuoteIrrational fear is a poor basis for killing human beings. I don't think the basis is 'irrational fear'. I believe it is called self defense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #35 April 23, 2002 Bill...if you think you can do better you have two choices. Apply for a govt job that will put you "in the fray." They are numerous from joining the military to any of well over 100 agencies that I'm sure could use your brain power for the cause. The other alternative.....pick up a rifle...get your ass on a plane and go hunt down some terrorists. There is a large reward so you could figure any money you spent on it as an investment. If all you want to do is sit on your ass and criticize I really don't see what good you are doing. Thanks...and thats the end of my rant. BTW...if you are the more humanitarian type you can check out http://www.refugeerelief.org They are asking for volunteers fairly often. "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffharris 0 #36 April 23, 2002 bill, congratulations on successfully aggitating a whole bunch of american folks who were attempting to unwind at their favorite SKYDIVING website. awww heck, this IS the 'skydving talkback' area and anything goes....right skybitch?hey! wanna talk about faggots in the military or just faggots in general. no? Well how bout killing fetus'? that's always a good topic bound to leave everyone with a warm fuzzy feeling..... im sure we can ALL come to an agreement regarding any of these topics, right? get the point?shadup! mullet head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #37 April 23, 2002 Very well put Clay! You're not as dumb as you look!Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #38 April 23, 2002 QuoteYou're not as dumb as you look!It's been a pretty successful ploy to keep my enemies off guard so far......"It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #39 April 23, 2002 Quoteawww heck, this IS the 'skydving talkback' area and anything goes....right skybitch?Yup. Quoting from the main forum page - "Whether skydiving related or not - this is the place to make idle chit-chat!" Sorry if some of the topics aren't idle enough.Quoteshadup! mullet head.Err... no. Don't like what someone is saying? Don't read their posts. Simple enough. Out of the six posts you've made on these forums, the majority are basically rude and/or insulting All six posts. While this is certainly a way to influence people.... it's not really the way most of us would choose.pull & flare,lisa[subliminal msg]My website Go Now[/subliminal msg] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #40 April 23, 2002 QuoteOut of the six posts you've made on these forums, the majority are basically rude and/or insulting All six posts. While this is certainly a way to influence people.... it's not really the way most of us would choose.Dude, don't mess with the Bytch! She's good, she's really good. She'll zap and fry you with one touch of the button. BTW, your posts are mean.Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #41 April 23, 2002 Yep, I was kidding Lisa. Sorry. Chris SchindlerATP/CFIID-19012www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #42 April 23, 2002 Good one Clay... Titties to Clay!! Girls pass Clay some titties please..Sgt. Cowan Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #43 April 23, 2002 This is not a conversation I want to get into really. Politics and such. Bill, I was being more cheeky than serious. Sorry.No, we're not going to annialate 350,000 civilians. Won't be tollerated anymore. Just making a comparison to how things were, and are now.ChrisChris SchindlerATP/CFIID-19012www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #44 April 23, 2002 Quotehey! wanna talk about faggots in the military or just faggots in general. no? Well how bout killing fetus'? that's always a good topic bound to leave everyone with a warm fuzzy feeling..... Cliff, I have been to Skydive Orange a few times and I never met one person there who was anywhere close to being as rude as you just were. I am glad I never met or jumped with you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #45 April 23, 2002 >Bill...if you think you can do better you have two choices. Apply for a govt job> that will put you "in the fray." They are numerous from joining the military to any> of well over 100 agencies that I'm sure could use your brain power for the cause.>The other alternative.....pick up a rifle...get your ass on a plane and go hunt down> some terrorists.There are more than two choices. I just finished developing a system that allows streaming video to be sent from an airliner to the ground for security purposes. It might be used to help prevent something like 9/11 again. That's my contribution to the war on terrorism. I think it is a more effective way to fight terrorism than shooting up some arabs.In the meantime, I will continue to speak out on what I think is right. I feel fortunate to live in a country where my right to do so is protected.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #46 April 23, 2002 >We have diverged in what we were talking about. I am talking about 'Innocent >people dying' as the result of a war or conflict. Although we do everything we can> to prevent the unnecessary loss of life sometimes it can't be avoided. Does this> mean we should never go to war again because an innocent might be killed? I> would argue no. I agree. Unneccesary loss of life is almost inevitable in any war, and we cannot decide to not defend ourselves out of fear that we might kill someone innocent. However, as I mentioned above, I don't think we've been doing a great job at avoiding innocent deaths. I hope we can do better in the coming years of our "war on terror.">I don't think the basis is 'irrational fear'. I believe it is called self defense.Again, I agree. If you see a suicide bomber coming down the street, kill him before he kills you or your family. If you can stop him or kill him before he leaves his home country, that is pretty defensible. If you think he _might_ be in Ramallah, and decide to blow up the entire city? That's not so defensible. If you use a nuke to make sure you kill everyone there? That's nuts.Does that mean that it's better to take a chance that you or your family might be killed to avoid nuking an entire city? Yes. It's an ugly tradeoff, but one that we have to consider - because Rumsfeld _has_ been talking about under what conditions we'd use nuclear weapons in the Middle East.Six months ago, Bush announced the war on terror, and told the US that we were going after Al Quaeda, Bin Laden and any governments that support them. That seemed like a reasonable response to what was essentially an act of war. We've toppled the government of Afghanistan, but haven't gotten Bin Laden or even most of Al Quaeda. I hope we do better in the coming years, for everyone's sake.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #47 April 23, 2002 QuoteI just finished developing a system that allows streaming video to be sent from an airliner to the ground for security purposes. It might be used to help prevent something like 9/11 again.Not following how it might prevent it other than giving someone on the ground much more information in making a decision to shoot down that aircraft. I certainly don't envy the person making that call or the pilot that squeezes the trigger. "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cliffharris 0 #48 April 23, 2002 skybitch says, "Yup. Quoting from the main forum page - "Whether skydiving related or not - this is the place to make idle chit-chat!" Sorry if some of the topics aren't idle enough"maybe that's what a moderator is for?skybitch says, "]Err... no. Don't like what someone is saying? Don't read their posts"find the faulty logic here.Skybitch says, "Out of the six posts you've made on these forums, the majority are basically rude and/or insulting"no, you're wrong. 2 are gear questions. one was a negative gear review (is it ok to be pissed over a 2000 dollar mistake?) one was humorous comments directed at a poster of an idiotic thread that sangiro ended up locking. and the final and only truly rude post i've made was towards a person that i felt was complaining continually becuase 'they didnt think they would be accepted into the skydiving community based on religion' . hey- if somebody is really THAT naive in general (after hanging out at dropzone.com for monthes) maybe they shouldnt be a skydiver....so in closing, the only thing im sorry about is calling bill a mullet head. i dont like anti american/government themes. that WAS NOT what i expected when i came to the talk back forum to relax, after all it isnt idle chit chat. K? ....and that was the point i was trying to make. now. i am going to make one more rude post to chromeboy, so please standby...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChromeBoy 0 #49 April 23, 2002 I'm ready. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #50 April 23, 2002 Oh Emily? Oh Ms.Post? Ms Manners?*sigh* I am not going to comment on the content of this thread. I'm quite simply just not smart enough. What I will say however, is that if you choose to disrespect someone in these forums, it only serves to make YOU look bad. Each person here, has the right to voice thier opinion, and thank God we live in a country that allows it. When folks start making personal attacks on others, no one hears anything that is being said. You don't have to agree with someone else's opinion, but at least show some respect for another member of this community. The end result just might be that you are treated in the same manner.Cheers!It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 2 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 2,400 #31 April 23, 2002 >Your absolutely right, I do love my country and I'm sure that somewhere deep> inside, you do to. But once again, you are twisting my words. My point was that> if you wanted to make a legitimate point, you should present both sides of the> story. Had I been writing your post I would have also listed numerous things the> U.S. had done right, they are there believe it or not.So list those numerous things. As I mentioned in my original post, the US has successfully removed the government of Afghanistan from power, and that has been their one real victory in the war on terror. What are the others?>Once again, this is typical of someone trying to cover up the fact that they have> no real good point to make. Nuclear weapons being used on the Middle East> isn't even a viable issue. Read the papers. The Pentagon recently changed its stance on nuclear weapons use. It listed seven countries (including Iraq and Iran) that were potential targets, and changed the situations in which they could be used. They now include "in the event of surprising military developments" instead of just retaliation against CBN attacks against the US. In the same report it recommends that the US should be ready to use nuclear weapons in an Arab-Israeli conflict.In March, Bush said he would consider use of nuclear weapons to prevent terrorism - such a threat could be used "as a way to say to people who would harm America: 'Don't do it.'" Note that this does _not_ mean that they are planning to use them now. But, despite what you say above, they are apparently considered a viable option in the war on terror. Personally, I think that's a mistake.Some references if you'd like to research it yourself:http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1864000/1864173.stmhttp://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSTopNews/bush_mar13-ap.html>Oh well, this seems typical in your arguments and I suppose you won't ever learn.I would recommend some research on your part before you start with the insults - it would make your position more tenable..-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #32 April 23, 2002 QuoteWhat is worse than a government/organization that systematically kills innocent people? I didn't realize we were talking in such extremes. Are you sure you don't write the arguments for the NRA? I didn't know our government 'systematically kills innocent people'. What is worse than innocent people dying IMO? 1. Living the rest of our lives in an oppressive society. 2. Living the rest of our lives fearful of when the next terrorist attack is going to kill me, my family, or my friends. 3. My children dying in a terrorist attack because I valued my life so much I refused to fight for them. Just to name a few. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #33 April 23, 2002 >>Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse. >I didn't realize we were talking in such extremes. Are you sure you don't write the> arguments for the NRA? I didn't know our government 'systematically kills> innocent people'. I did not suggest they did. I was answering you when you said "Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse." To me, someone who kills innocent people is about the worst thing there is.>1. Living the rest of our lives in an oppressive society. Everyone on the planet lives in an oppressive society. Every country has laws that force you to do certain things and not do others. The penalty if you disobey is imprisonment or death. We have one of the least oppressive societies around - I hope we will continue to have such a society.Interestingly, recent acts by the Homeland Security office (ability to hold someone indefinitely without charging them if they are considered a possible terrorist) make our society more oppressive, not less oppressive. Hopefully we will carefully consider proposals to continue in this direction. Rememer the old quote - "they that sacrifice essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither.">2. Living the rest of our lives fearful of when the next terrorist attack is going >to kill me, my family, or my friends.Irrational fear is a poor basis for killing human beings. If it is a good basis, then the terrorists have really won - after all, they use the same rationale to go after the US.> 3. My children dying in a terrorist attack because I valued my life so much I> refused to fight for them. See 2) above.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #34 April 23, 2002 QuoteI did not suggest they did. I was answering you when you said "Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse." To me, someone who kills innocent people is about the worst thing there is. We have diverged in what we were talking about. I am talking about 'Innocent people dying' as the result of a war or conflict. Although we do everything we can to prevent the unnecessary loss of life sometimes it can't be avoided. Does this mean we should never go to war again because an innocent might be killed? I would argue no. Quote Everyone on the planet lives in an oppressive society. Here we go taking everything to extremes again. It's all relative. I think you know what I mean.QuoteIrrational fear is a poor basis for killing human beings. I don't think the basis is 'irrational fear'. I believe it is called self defense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #35 April 23, 2002 Bill...if you think you can do better you have two choices. Apply for a govt job that will put you "in the fray." They are numerous from joining the military to any of well over 100 agencies that I'm sure could use your brain power for the cause. The other alternative.....pick up a rifle...get your ass on a plane and go hunt down some terrorists. There is a large reward so you could figure any money you spent on it as an investment. If all you want to do is sit on your ass and criticize I really don't see what good you are doing. Thanks...and thats the end of my rant. BTW...if you are the more humanitarian type you can check out http://www.refugeerelief.org They are asking for volunteers fairly often. "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffharris 0 #36 April 23, 2002 bill, congratulations on successfully aggitating a whole bunch of american folks who were attempting to unwind at their favorite SKYDIVING website. awww heck, this IS the 'skydving talkback' area and anything goes....right skybitch?hey! wanna talk about faggots in the military or just faggots in general. no? Well how bout killing fetus'? that's always a good topic bound to leave everyone with a warm fuzzy feeling..... im sure we can ALL come to an agreement regarding any of these topics, right? get the point?shadup! mullet head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #37 April 23, 2002 Very well put Clay! You're not as dumb as you look!Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #38 April 23, 2002 QuoteYou're not as dumb as you look!It's been a pretty successful ploy to keep my enemies off guard so far......"It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #39 April 23, 2002 Quoteawww heck, this IS the 'skydving talkback' area and anything goes....right skybitch?Yup. Quoting from the main forum page - "Whether skydiving related or not - this is the place to make idle chit-chat!" Sorry if some of the topics aren't idle enough.Quoteshadup! mullet head.Err... no. Don't like what someone is saying? Don't read their posts. Simple enough. Out of the six posts you've made on these forums, the majority are basically rude and/or insulting All six posts. While this is certainly a way to influence people.... it's not really the way most of us would choose.pull & flare,lisa[subliminal msg]My website Go Now[/subliminal msg] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #40 April 23, 2002 QuoteOut of the six posts you've made on these forums, the majority are basically rude and/or insulting All six posts. While this is certainly a way to influence people.... it's not really the way most of us would choose.Dude, don't mess with the Bytch! She's good, she's really good. She'll zap and fry you with one touch of the button. BTW, your posts are mean.Such an interesting monster with such an interesting hairdo.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #41 April 23, 2002 Yep, I was kidding Lisa. Sorry. Chris SchindlerATP/CFIID-19012www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #42 April 23, 2002 Good one Clay... Titties to Clay!! Girls pass Clay some titties please..Sgt. Cowan Blue Skies ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #43 April 23, 2002 This is not a conversation I want to get into really. Politics and such. Bill, I was being more cheeky than serious. Sorry.No, we're not going to annialate 350,000 civilians. Won't be tollerated anymore. Just making a comparison to how things were, and are now.ChrisChris SchindlerATP/CFIID-19012www.DiverDriver.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChromeBoy 0 #44 April 23, 2002 Quotehey! wanna talk about faggots in the military or just faggots in general. no? Well how bout killing fetus'? that's always a good topic bound to leave everyone with a warm fuzzy feeling..... Cliff, I have been to Skydive Orange a few times and I never met one person there who was anywhere close to being as rude as you just were. I am glad I never met or jumped with you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #45 April 23, 2002 >Bill...if you think you can do better you have two choices. Apply for a govt job> that will put you "in the fray." They are numerous from joining the military to any> of well over 100 agencies that I'm sure could use your brain power for the cause.>The other alternative.....pick up a rifle...get your ass on a plane and go hunt down> some terrorists.There are more than two choices. I just finished developing a system that allows streaming video to be sent from an airliner to the ground for security purposes. It might be used to help prevent something like 9/11 again. That's my contribution to the war on terrorism. I think it is a more effective way to fight terrorism than shooting up some arabs.In the meantime, I will continue to speak out on what I think is right. I feel fortunate to live in a country where my right to do so is protected.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #46 April 23, 2002 >We have diverged in what we were talking about. I am talking about 'Innocent >people dying' as the result of a war or conflict. Although we do everything we can> to prevent the unnecessary loss of life sometimes it can't be avoided. Does this> mean we should never go to war again because an innocent might be killed? I> would argue no. I agree. Unneccesary loss of life is almost inevitable in any war, and we cannot decide to not defend ourselves out of fear that we might kill someone innocent. However, as I mentioned above, I don't think we've been doing a great job at avoiding innocent deaths. I hope we can do better in the coming years of our "war on terror.">I don't think the basis is 'irrational fear'. I believe it is called self defense.Again, I agree. If you see a suicide bomber coming down the street, kill him before he kills you or your family. If you can stop him or kill him before he leaves his home country, that is pretty defensible. If you think he _might_ be in Ramallah, and decide to blow up the entire city? That's not so defensible. If you use a nuke to make sure you kill everyone there? That's nuts.Does that mean that it's better to take a chance that you or your family might be killed to avoid nuking an entire city? Yes. It's an ugly tradeoff, but one that we have to consider - because Rumsfeld _has_ been talking about under what conditions we'd use nuclear weapons in the Middle East.Six months ago, Bush announced the war on terror, and told the US that we were going after Al Quaeda, Bin Laden and any governments that support them. That seemed like a reasonable response to what was essentially an act of war. We've toppled the government of Afghanistan, but haven't gotten Bin Laden or even most of Al Quaeda. I hope we do better in the coming years, for everyone's sake.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #47 April 23, 2002 QuoteI just finished developing a system that allows streaming video to be sent from an airliner to the ground for security purposes. It might be used to help prevent something like 9/11 again.Not following how it might prevent it other than giving someone on the ground much more information in making a decision to shoot down that aircraft. I certainly don't envy the person making that call or the pilot that squeezes the trigger. "It's all about the BOOBIES!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffharris 0 #48 April 23, 2002 skybitch says, "Yup. Quoting from the main forum page - "Whether skydiving related or not - this is the place to make idle chit-chat!" Sorry if some of the topics aren't idle enough"maybe that's what a moderator is for?skybitch says, "]Err... no. Don't like what someone is saying? Don't read their posts"find the faulty logic here.Skybitch says, "Out of the six posts you've made on these forums, the majority are basically rude and/or insulting"no, you're wrong. 2 are gear questions. one was a negative gear review (is it ok to be pissed over a 2000 dollar mistake?) one was humorous comments directed at a poster of an idiotic thread that sangiro ended up locking. and the final and only truly rude post i've made was towards a person that i felt was complaining continually becuase 'they didnt think they would be accepted into the skydiving community based on religion' . hey- if somebody is really THAT naive in general (after hanging out at dropzone.com for monthes) maybe they shouldnt be a skydiver....so in closing, the only thing im sorry about is calling bill a mullet head. i dont like anti american/government themes. that WAS NOT what i expected when i came to the talk back forum to relax, after all it isnt idle chit chat. K? ....and that was the point i was trying to make. now. i am going to make one more rude post to chromeboy, so please standby...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #50 April 23, 2002 Oh Emily? Oh Ms.Post? Ms Manners?*sigh* I am not going to comment on the content of this thread. I'm quite simply just not smart enough. What I will say however, is that if you choose to disrespect someone in these forums, it only serves to make YOU look bad. Each person here, has the right to voice thier opinion, and thank God we live in a country that allows it. When folks start making personal attacks on others, no one hears anything that is being said. You don't have to agree with someone else's opinion, but at least show some respect for another member of this community. The end result just might be that you are treated in the same manner.Cheers!It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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