skybytch 259 #51 August 30, 2002 QuoteKate Cooper - don't know her, never juped with her. Your loss. Kate's an awesome skydiver (belly and freefly), an extremely talented RW organizer, and an incredible person. I'm extremely lucky - I not only know her and have jumped with her, I get to work for her too. QuoteKate Cooper - I am sure she is a great person. But knowing her does not make me a skydiver. It's not knowing her - it's knowing WHO SHE IS. Knowing at least the names of the top people in our sport and knowing some of our sport's history - to me that's a big part of "being" a skydiver. By knowing the names and a bit of the history, I'm showing respect to those who've made this sport what it is today. Because without them, there would be no skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #52 August 30, 2002 "and then they quit..." I was talking to a guy from Strong one time. They had done a study and determined that one of the leading factors was that jumpers were getting injured at about 300 jumps. After the injury, a lot were leaving the sport. I can understand that. One reason that pops up a lot is marriage. When someone tells me that they are getting married, I ask them what they want for their gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #53 August 30, 2002 Can't disagree with you. I understand people are motivated by different things. I am talking of myself. Of course seeing accidents can discourage you. I did my low hop and pop 25 minutes after a buddy of mine did a low hook and hooked the ground (femor, shattered pelvis). I was scared as hell, but that did not discourage me. Skydiving is a risky sport. Not the first one I am committed to. Try rock climbing. I had a couple of friends go, and there are no gear checks in rock climbing and you don't have a reserve. In addition, rock climbers are much more gung ho. I still climb - it rocks Relationships - I went through 7 years of living with a person that did not like the things I did. Won't make that mistake again. I guess it's all about your personality. I don't have and don't intend to have a TV set. I preffer to do things instead of watching them on the boob tube. But as I said, I can't disagree with you. At the same time I will keep on jumpingjraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katecooper 0 #54 August 30, 2002 Hi Jraf. I'm kate cooper. Does reading this letter from me make you more of a skydiver? Hell no. Were you less of a skydiver before you read this? Hell no again. I'm just a jumper, albeit an older, wiser one than the average bear. I'll be happy to make a jump with you anytime our paths cross though and you can make up your own mind about me. By the way, you do get the award for the best (and most consistent) useage of the name kate cooper in one posting. (polite applause from the crowd). Oh, and let's have a discussion about that tourist thing in, say, about 9 years or so. I'll be here. The first drink will be on me. blue skies kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #55 August 30, 2002 I for one, don't get what's wrong with quitting skydiving if you decide that your values have changed. Nor do I get why someone has to practically forsake everything else to be considered a 'skydiver'. Saying that you have to be in the sport for 10 years to be a 'skydiver' seems like a dogmatic elitist viewpoint used to devalue other people who choose to value something more than skydiving. Why should I care if the guy next to me on the load will decide he enjoys racing motorcycles more or will join a monastary and become a monk? The fact is, now he is skydiving and if he is proficient then by definition he is a skydiver. Some people say skydiving is a state of mind and I can agree with that, but that means that it can apply to other things as well and that someone can be a "skydiver" without ever having skydived. The 'elite establishment' may never agree with that--but that may only be because they want to strengthen their own convictions or social status within the skydiving community. Sorry, but I don't buy into that. *Dons flame resistent clothing...* EDIT: I think I get it now because skydiving will always (hopefully) be an enjoyable part of my life, but never the central focus, so I guess if that is the definition then I will never be a 'real skydiver'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #56 August 30, 2002 This is a really interesting thread. Lots of people have lots of ideas about what makes them a "skydiver". For example, if you don't/do have a license. If you don't/do have X number of jumps. If you don't/do know this person or that person. If you don't/do have X number of years in the sport. If you haven't/have been to that boogie...And all are valid points, milestones, and goals...but they don't define, for me, what a skydiver is. To me, it's about an acceptance - of risks, of joy, of challenge, of life. It's about an attitude: I can, if I try... It's about looking at the sky NOT as "that thing up there", but as the playground. It's about seeing in a brand new way - with all your senses awake, maybe for the first time. It's about a yearning, a longing, a different way of relating to yourself and to the world around you... It's about a willingness to take yourself somewhere most people haven't been, and won't go, and take yourself there with eagerness and with a smile. It's about many, many things. Sure, jumping out of a plane makes you, by definition, a skydiver. But I know jumpers who have none of what I think of as "Skytude"...and it's when you have "Skytude" - well then, to me, you are a skydiver. Just my thoughts - as usual.... Edit begins here: kate said... QuoteI'll be happy to make a jump with you anytime our paths cross hey, Kate? Can I jump with you? there's a group coming out tomorrow to Perris from here, and we'd love it if you'd come play with us. Pleaseohpleaseohplease? Ciels and Pinks- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #57 August 30, 2002 QuoteQuoteKate Cooper - don't know her, never juped with her. Your loss. Kate's an awesome skydiver (belly and freefly), an extremely talented RW organizer, and an incredible person. I'm extremely lucky - I not only know her and have jumped with her, I get to work for her too. QuoteKate Cooper - I am sure she is a great person. But knowing her does not make me a skydiver. It's not knowing her - it's knowing WHO SHE IS. Knowing at least the names of the top people in our sport and knowing some of our sport's history - to me that's a big part of "being" a skydiver. By knowing the names and a bit of the history, I'm showing respect to those who've made this sport what it is today. Because without them, there would be no skydiving. I think, at minimum... a skydiver would know who holds license D-1 (if you don't, time to make a visit to Google ). That's probably a very big important part of history, at least USPA history. Knowing who has made accomplishments in the sport, Kate Cooper, Nancy LaRiviere, Tom Piras, etc. are very important, too and that comes with time. As skydiving continues to branch and add more disciplines (who knew we'd have Para-Ski?), I think focus will be on the names that have made those disciplines their own and have mastered those disciplines well. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #58 August 30, 2002 *applauds Michele's (tude).........You got it goin on girly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #59 August 30, 2002 QuoteSaying that you have to be in the sport for 10 years to be a 'skydiver' seems like a dogmatic elitist viewpoint used to devalue other people who choose to value something more than skydiving. Nobody said that you have to have jumped for 10 years to be a "skydiver." The original quote was more like - "If you haven't been jumping for at least 10 years, you're a tourist in the sport." Nothing there about you not being a skydiver. Until you've been in the sport for 10 years or so, you won't understand that statement. That's okay. Like Kate said, talk to me about that on the tenth anniversary of your first jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #60 August 30, 2002 My bad! I can agree with that! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #61 August 30, 2002 >Like Kate said, talk to me about that on the tenth anniversary of your first jump. 7 years to go... I hope I'm still jumping then.. if not its been a hell of a time so far Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jraf 0 #62 August 30, 2002 All things considered I must agree. Deceleration trauma will not discriminate - it will treat us all equal. I think the point I was making was that I don't like to be talked down by people who don't know me. As I said I am having more fun than allowed. Come jump with me, let's share the joyjraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #63 August 30, 2002 Wow! So some of our champions in this sport that have won World titles are only "tourists"? I want on THAT amusement ride......cause they would beg to differ with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katecooper 0 #64 August 30, 2002 Hi Michele I actually have non-dz plans tomorrow (horrors!), but might be by Perris in the later afternoon. If I'm up to it (read if I haven't had a drink yet) then I'm all for it. I'd love to make a jump with you, I've enjoyed reading your postings and musings immensely. This posting makes me a dz.commer, :-) so I'd be elegible for any records, right? Oh, and (flagrant plug coming) don't forget to check out www.jumpforthecause.com and help support your favorite sky diva on the upcoming Women's World Record dives! (flagrant plug off). blue skies (pink suits) kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sinkster 0 #65 August 30, 2002 The tourist is first of all an adventurer. The dream is of the pioneer, the explorer, the great voyager or the conquering emperor. He leaves the security of home far behind and sets out beyond the perimeters of the known world for fame, fortune and excitement. He wants to take on the minotaur, scale the Matterhorn, discover a lost Amazonian tribe or sample the delights of a Thai brothel.... The essence of the tourist adventure is exhibited in the contours of the excitements that it provides. And these contours are best inferred from the stories that are told and re-told with animation to relatives, friends and colleagues at home. It is virtually never what has been seen that is recounted with enthusiasm. When the sites are described it is in the form of ritualized cliches: the Eiffel Tower really is a wonder—we went up it, and you get such a nice view. It is rather the personal moments of the tour, moments of near-crisis, that in retrospect were exciting: when one of the suitcases failed to arrive off the luggage chute at Frankfort Airport. -John Carroll (sociologist) Not so bad being a tourist after all is it?!?!?!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #66 August 30, 2002 Dear Kate Cooper, My name is Chris Muenkel. I only have 2 tandem jumps, but I love this sport. I read your profile and was blown away by the fact that you 6000+ jumps. That so seems like a lifetime away for me. Anyway, I hope to make it someday out to Cali and see you in action. Maybe I can learn something. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #67 August 30, 2002 QuoteI actually have non-dz plans tomorrow (horrors!), but might be by Perris in the later afternoon. If I'm up to it (read if I haven't had a drink yet) then I'm all for it. Whhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhoooooooooo!!! Cause guess what? We'll be there on Sunday, too....QuoteI'd love to make a jump with you, I've enjoyed reading your postings and musings immensely. LOL, thank you, Kate! ....but it may have to be a 2 or 3 way, 'cause I am not exactly up for a 20 way yet...... QuoteThis posting makes me a dz.commer, :-) so I'd be elegible for any records, right? You betcha, Kate! you'd be eligible for records, beer, laughs, and all the attendent mishegoss which comes along with it all! Hee hee..... [thread creep]BTW, about JFTC....Lisa, I may have a check or two for you tomorrow...Remind me to bring them, o.k.? [/thread creep] Ciels and Pinks- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katecooper 0 #68 August 30, 2002 Hi! Actually Betsy, I bet, if you asked them, most would agree with that statement. Being a tourist isn't a bad thing, and it most certainly doesn't mean that you don't have world class abilities. Sheesh, I've seen jumpers with 500 jumps who can give me a run for my money. I can't wait to see them continue in the sport, and, for both their sake and the sports sake, I hope that they do. Ditto for the World Class athletes who may not have been in the sport for very long. I hope that they continue, and I hope that they enjoy the opportunity to look back over a long and fruitful career and see the difference that they have made over the long run. Too often I have seen extreme talent "flame out" and leave after too short a run. This sport is way too beautiful and the people are way too wonderful for a jumper, regardless of talent and experience, not to make it a life endeavour. blue skies, pink suits, and long careers kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skyrad 0 #69 August 30, 2002 'respect to those who've made this sport what it is today. Because without them, there would be no skydiving.' I agree compleately, but I don't think that one needs to be jumping for ten years to be able to call oneself a Skydiver. I love skydiving and I'm sure that I'll continue over the years until when....who knows. But all those great people that you jumped with over the years were they not skydivers? The fact they don't jump now doesn't mean that at the time they wern't a Skydiver. I used to be a soldier and now I do something else, it doesn't mean that I was never a soldier.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jraf 0 #70 August 30, 2002 Hi Kate CooperAs I mentioned I love jumping out of planes. I intend to stay with the sport, but yes you never know. I might even win the lottery (HA HA HA HA!) and buy a DZ of my own just to blow the cash off. The glory of skydiving to me means not only the fun but also the learning. I am very humble (might not seem so, but true) while at the DZ. I listen to my more experienced friends. I compare their comments. I learn, learn, learn. That is also for me to be able to share my knowledge with others in a few years. I don't know many famous skydivers. I know people form ZHills, I know Ed Ganley from Skydive Pittsburgh, I met a bunch of great people. I judge them by the kind of humans they are and not by the amount of jumps. Then again I am yet to meet a really experienced skydiver who was not friendly to mejraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #71 August 30, 2002 Sinkster......verra verra nice and I agree with you in that regard. However, that wasn't how the word "tourist" was used in this thread. Kate~ Actually I did ask.....and they disagreed. But heck that IS what is great about being human. The point that I was trying to make albiet pehaps badly.......is that people are what they think they are. It isn't for anyone else to decide if someone is or is not "something"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SBS 0 #72 August 30, 2002 cause they would beg to differ with you. -------------- You assume that they would beg to differ, but would they? Me learning to play Flight of the Bumblebee, although impressive, would not make me a concert pianist. Being a skydiver isn't your number of jumps, or awards won, it's a state of mind. Being in the sport 10 years does not make you a skydiver, but being a skydiver will keep you in the sport for 10 years. You will not know, though, until you get to that point. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #73 August 30, 2002 QuoteI don't think that one needs to be jumping for ten years to be able to call oneself a Skydiver. At the risk of repeating myself... no one is saying you have to have been jumping for 10 years to call yourself a skydiver. See my post above... QuoteBut all those great people that you jumped with over the years were they not skydivers? They were at the time. Now they are not. They are the proof of the theory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Muenkel 0 #74 August 30, 2002 What if I was, God forbid, injured or worse on my 7th jump. Wouldn't they say "he was injured skydiving?" _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #75 August 30, 2002 If you get injured and leave the sport... would you say in 5 years that you are still a skydiver?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
PhreeZone 15 #61 August 30, 2002 >Like Kate said, talk to me about that on the tenth anniversary of your first jump. 7 years to go... I hope I'm still jumping then.. if not its been a hell of a time so far Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #62 August 30, 2002 All things considered I must agree. Deceleration trauma will not discriminate - it will treat us all equal. I think the point I was making was that I don't like to be talked down by people who don't know me. As I said I am having more fun than allowed. Come jump with me, let's share the joyjraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #63 August 30, 2002 Wow! So some of our champions in this sport that have won World titles are only "tourists"? I want on THAT amusement ride......cause they would beg to differ with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katecooper 0 #64 August 30, 2002 Hi Michele I actually have non-dz plans tomorrow (horrors!), but might be by Perris in the later afternoon. If I'm up to it (read if I haven't had a drink yet) then I'm all for it. I'd love to make a jump with you, I've enjoyed reading your postings and musings immensely. This posting makes me a dz.commer, :-) so I'd be elegible for any records, right? Oh, and (flagrant plug coming) don't forget to check out www.jumpforthecause.com and help support your favorite sky diva on the upcoming Women's World Record dives! (flagrant plug off). blue skies (pink suits) kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sinkster 0 #65 August 30, 2002 The tourist is first of all an adventurer. The dream is of the pioneer, the explorer, the great voyager or the conquering emperor. He leaves the security of home far behind and sets out beyond the perimeters of the known world for fame, fortune and excitement. He wants to take on the minotaur, scale the Matterhorn, discover a lost Amazonian tribe or sample the delights of a Thai brothel.... The essence of the tourist adventure is exhibited in the contours of the excitements that it provides. And these contours are best inferred from the stories that are told and re-told with animation to relatives, friends and colleagues at home. It is virtually never what has been seen that is recounted with enthusiasm. When the sites are described it is in the form of ritualized cliches: the Eiffel Tower really is a wonder—we went up it, and you get such a nice view. It is rather the personal moments of the tour, moments of near-crisis, that in retrospect were exciting: when one of the suitcases failed to arrive off the luggage chute at Frankfort Airport. -John Carroll (sociologist) Not so bad being a tourist after all is it?!?!?!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #66 August 30, 2002 Dear Kate Cooper, My name is Chris Muenkel. I only have 2 tandem jumps, but I love this sport. I read your profile and was blown away by the fact that you 6000+ jumps. That so seems like a lifetime away for me. Anyway, I hope to make it someday out to Cali and see you in action. Maybe I can learn something. _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #67 August 30, 2002 QuoteI actually have non-dz plans tomorrow (horrors!), but might be by Perris in the later afternoon. If I'm up to it (read if I haven't had a drink yet) then I'm all for it. Whhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhoooooooooo!!! Cause guess what? We'll be there on Sunday, too....QuoteI'd love to make a jump with you, I've enjoyed reading your postings and musings immensely. LOL, thank you, Kate! ....but it may have to be a 2 or 3 way, 'cause I am not exactly up for a 20 way yet...... QuoteThis posting makes me a dz.commer, :-) so I'd be elegible for any records, right? You betcha, Kate! you'd be eligible for records, beer, laughs, and all the attendent mishegoss which comes along with it all! Hee hee..... [thread creep]BTW, about JFTC....Lisa, I may have a check or two for you tomorrow...Remind me to bring them, o.k.? [/thread creep] Ciels and Pinks- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katecooper 0 #68 August 30, 2002 Hi! Actually Betsy, I bet, if you asked them, most would agree with that statement. Being a tourist isn't a bad thing, and it most certainly doesn't mean that you don't have world class abilities. Sheesh, I've seen jumpers with 500 jumps who can give me a run for my money. I can't wait to see them continue in the sport, and, for both their sake and the sports sake, I hope that they do. Ditto for the World Class athletes who may not have been in the sport for very long. I hope that they continue, and I hope that they enjoy the opportunity to look back over a long and fruitful career and see the difference that they have made over the long run. Too often I have seen extreme talent "flame out" and leave after too short a run. This sport is way too beautiful and the people are way too wonderful for a jumper, regardless of talent and experience, not to make it a life endeavour. blue skies, pink suits, and long careers kate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #69 August 30, 2002 'respect to those who've made this sport what it is today. Because without them, there would be no skydiving.' I agree compleately, but I don't think that one needs to be jumping for ten years to be able to call oneself a Skydiver. I love skydiving and I'm sure that I'll continue over the years until when....who knows. But all those great people that you jumped with over the years were they not skydivers? The fact they don't jump now doesn't mean that at the time they wern't a Skydiver. I used to be a soldier and now I do something else, it doesn't mean that I was never a soldier.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #70 August 30, 2002 Hi Kate CooperAs I mentioned I love jumping out of planes. I intend to stay with the sport, but yes you never know. I might even win the lottery (HA HA HA HA!) and buy a DZ of my own just to blow the cash off. The glory of skydiving to me means not only the fun but also the learning. I am very humble (might not seem so, but true) while at the DZ. I listen to my more experienced friends. I compare their comments. I learn, learn, learn. That is also for me to be able to share my knowledge with others in a few years. I don't know many famous skydivers. I know people form ZHills, I know Ed Ganley from Skydive Pittsburgh, I met a bunch of great people. I judge them by the kind of humans they are and not by the amount of jumps. Then again I am yet to meet a really experienced skydiver who was not friendly to mejraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #71 August 30, 2002 Sinkster......verra verra nice and I agree with you in that regard. However, that wasn't how the word "tourist" was used in this thread. Kate~ Actually I did ask.....and they disagreed. But heck that IS what is great about being human. The point that I was trying to make albiet pehaps badly.......is that people are what they think they are. It isn't for anyone else to decide if someone is or is not "something"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #72 August 30, 2002 cause they would beg to differ with you. -------------- You assume that they would beg to differ, but would they? Me learning to play Flight of the Bumblebee, although impressive, would not make me a concert pianist. Being a skydiver isn't your number of jumps, or awards won, it's a state of mind. Being in the sport 10 years does not make you a skydiver, but being a skydiver will keep you in the sport for 10 years. You will not know, though, until you get to that point. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #73 August 30, 2002 QuoteI don't think that one needs to be jumping for ten years to be able to call oneself a Skydiver. At the risk of repeating myself... no one is saying you have to have been jumping for 10 years to call yourself a skydiver. See my post above... QuoteBut all those great people that you jumped with over the years were they not skydivers? They were at the time. Now they are not. They are the proof of the theory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #74 August 30, 2002 What if I was, God forbid, injured or worse on my 7th jump. Wouldn't they say "he was injured skydiving?" _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #75 August 30, 2002 If you get injured and leave the sport... would you say in 5 years that you are still a skydiver?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
