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gowlerk

When you see Airtec at the Symposium.....

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I have sent a message to both Airtec and SSK asking that it be sent to Germany if SSK can't handle it



See that is the problem... SSK can handle it if you will cool your jets, but if I saw that MSG I would have sent it over seas for two reasons 1. so that I wouldn't have deal you & 2. to make it an even slower turn around for you because you are acting like a PITA.

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I do not in any way blame SSK for the problem



You sure seem to bitching a lot about that mom and pop shop that is a service center for north America. And saying you get nothing but excuses from them.... Sounds more like you just don't care for the answers you were given and are unwilling to wait for them to get the needed info and plan of action from Airtec, so you go about bashing them.

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But wouldn't it be a little better yet if you had the option of getting them updated in your slow season if you wanted?



Yea it would have been, but guess what ace Eli, it's the start of the season so that is out, I have no problem pushing the button as part of my gear check, check that damn AAD each and every time I grab a rig, more so on TDM, whole rig gets 3 checks. The AAD has never been a set it and forget deal, only a moron would do that, you don't know who fucked with that rig from the last time you touched it.

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And what about the military units out there?



Way more then sport units world wide for sure, don't see or hear any governments around world doing the same amount of bitching as you, they are working with the companies airtec & SSK to resolve the issue in professional manner.

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I wonder if these potentially mission critical units will be subject to "just a button push"



If that is part of the gear check then yes they will, military is a tad anal about shit like that.

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This is not about how nice people are. This is about Airtec taking responsibility for fixing their defective product in a timely manner.



Then stop taking your bullshit out on the VERY nice and industry supporting Cliff Schmucker and the outstanding staff over at SSK by implying their unprofessional & incompetent bozos when the real people you have a problem with is located in Germany!
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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Then stop taking your bullshit out on the VERY nice and industry supporting Cliff Schmucker and the outstanding staff over at SSK by implying their unprofessional & incompetent bozos when you real people you have a problem with is located in Germany!



I don't think any of your friends are incompetent or unprofessional. I think that Airtec made a decision to try to downplay the defect in order to save themselves the cost of dealing with it rapidly. The longer they make everyone wait the more units will be fixed at owners expense during the maintenance.

The SB went out 8 weeks ago. If Airtec was serious about dealing with the problem they could have made a plan and announced it by now. The longer they wait the more they can just pass the cost to their customer. They should be expanding their capacity to fix the defect at their cost. If they can not do that immediately, they should at the very least announce when they can. Their silence is about reducing costs.

I am indeed being a PITA. I intend to become a Royal PITA until this matter is resolved properly. Nothing I am asking is unreasonable. What I am asking is for a very successful manufacturer of a critical safety device that is defective to communicate to their customers a plan to deal with the defect in a timely fashion. Just basic common sense.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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See that is the problem... SSK can handle it if you will cool your jets, but if I saw that MSG I would have sent it over seas for two reasons 1. so that I wouldn't have deal you & 2. to make it an even slower turn around for you because you are acting like a PITA.



My jets are cooled. SSK indicates that they will be unable to give me even an estimate till at least 3 months from now. That just won't do. It's my wife's unit, her second CYPRES. When her first one timed out she insisted that only a CYPRES would do. She now says she will never again use one of their products. Not because of the defect, but because she feels they are cheating her in how they have chosen to handle it. I will probably get her an M2 as soon as they are available. When the CYPRES is finally repaired she will sell it on the used market.

I'm guessing that she is not unique, except in being married to me that is. Just because I'm the only one trying to do my best to publicly shame Airtec into doing the right thing doesn't mean that others aren't angry as well.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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SSK indicates that they will be unable to give me even an estimate till at least 3 months from now



Gee did you ever stop to consider the fact that just fucking maybe it will take that long to get you an answer BECAUSE the damn part that is at issue here is not a random on the self part and that it needs to be engineered, tested and then assy in mass production in order to fix all of these units and until then you need to comply with the SB or not, your choice.

Pretty damn stupid to ASSume this is all about trying to shaft everyone out of some more cash... yea would have nothing to do with designing, building, testing a replacement part because that one part is made by only 1 MFG in the world, you don't just stroll over to fucking Wal-mart or radio shack and pick out a new one and install them.

What part of all that can't you and rest of pissing and moaning crowd NOT understand.:S

Oh yea I forgot... it was an excuse made up by SSK to screw you out of more money down the road.... :D
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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Gee did you ever stop to consider the fact that just fucking maybe it will take that long to get you an answer BECAUSE the damn part that is at issue here is not a random on the self part and that it needs to be engineered, tested and then assy in mass production in order to fix all of these units and until then you need to comply with the SB or not, your choice.

Pretty damn stupid to ASSume this is all about trying to shaft everyone out of some more cash... yea would have nothing to do with designing, building, testing a replacement part because that one part is made by only 1 MFG in the world, you don't just stroll over to fucking Wal-mart or radio shack and pick out a new one and install them.

What part of all that can't you and rest of pissing and moaning crowd NOT understand.Crazy

Oh yea I forgot... it was an excuse made up by SSK to screw you out of more money down the road.... Laugh



Ok, I get it. SSK are your friends. Your main point would seem to be "these are my friends and they are good people" You don't seem to have any argument at all about why Airtec should not act responsibly. Your lack of a good argument is why you are resorting angry name calling.

Airtec's decision is about money. SSK has nothing at all to do with it as far as I know. The manufacturer is making new units with the same part, but upgrading the static protection and changing the software. Testing is completed and production has resumed. They know how to fix the problem. The only thing missing is the will to get it done.

And yes, it is about not wanting to spend the money. And Airtec is cheating their customers.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Did you try to zap it into a lockup before sending it in?

If not, why not?

It seems that you sent it in knowing it would not be serviced. That is explicitly what SSK said they would do.

I think when Airtek/SSK announces a schedule for people to get mine updated before the normal 4 year service date, I would rather they offer me a free 4 year service on the normal schedule if I choose to not have it updated before that time (in effect them giving me a discount for helping to not increase their workload). That would make me happy, and shows how confident I am that the problem will not affect me.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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I sent it in because my wife was not willing to jump with it in her rig after reading the SB. She started calling it her $1600 door stop. You may remember that from earlier in the thread.

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I would rather they offer me a free 4 year service on the normal schedule if I choose to not have it updated before that time (in effect them giving me a discount for helping to not increase their workload). That would make me happy, and shows how confident I am that the problem will not affect me.




Good luck with all of that.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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I sent it in because my wife was not willing to jump with it in her rig after reading the SB. She started calling it her $1600 door stop. You may remember that from earlier in the thread.



But you sent in a functioning unit, just hoping that SSK would update it against their stated policy. Why did you not try to zap it with enough static to get it to lockup? Either you would have been able to do it, and SSK would update it as a high priority, or you might realize how difficult it is to get it to lockup - that your disappointment in the product might have been misplaced. I would like to know how easily it can be zapped into submission.

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I would rather they offer me a free 4 year service on the normal schedule if I choose to not have it updated before that time (in effect them giving me a discount for helping to not increase their workload). That would make me happy, and shows how confident I am that the problem will not affect me.




Good luck with all of that.



I realize it isn't likely to happen, but it does seem like something that would certainly help SSK update units for the people that are more concerned than me, and reduce their cost.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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SSK indicates that they will be unable to give me even an estimate till at least 3 months from now



Gee did you ever stop to consider the fact that just fucking maybe it will take that long to get you an answer BECAUSE the damn part that is at issue here is not a random on the self part and that it needs to be engineered, tested and then assy in mass production in order to fix all of these units and until then you need to comply with the SB or not, your choice.

Pretty damn stupid to ASSume this is all about trying to shaft everyone out of some more cash... yea would have nothing to do with designing, building, testing a replacement part because that one part is made by only 1 MFG in the world, you don't just stroll over to fucking Wal-mart or radio shack and pick out a new one and install them.

What part of all that can't you and rest of pissing and moaning crowd NOT understand.:S

Oh yea I forgot... it was an excuse made up by SSK to screw you out of more money down the road.... :D



FWIW my wife has a recall on her Jeep because the fuel could spill out when filling at the gas station. Now I know it's not a life saving device like an aad but they did agree to fix it and everyone who paid to have it fixed were compensated. Reason being, it did not work as expected.Did it cost them a shitload to fix it? yep. Did they own it and get it done? yep. Is is she a happy customer still? yep.

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They never said they wouldn't fit the units. However some people want to make a bigger deal then it needs to be made into and they want to go around bad mouthing and trashing SSK over something that is not in SSk's control other then being the service center for north America.

I own seven units, 6 are under the SB, I'm not worried about them till I need to be worried about them, in other words I pre flight my rigs each jump, I look at the AAD each time to make sure it is on, taking an extra half second to push the button and watch a light is not a big deal. If for some reason I need to have service done before my 4 yr check, I know with out a shadow of a doubt that not only can SSK handle the servicing of the units, it will done in a quick manner and I won't be charged any extra for that update.

I have no problem with people taking issue with airtec, but to go out of ones way to talk misleading shit about a good upstanding company, SSK, is bullshit, that is the point you and a few other can't seem to understand.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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They never said they wouldn't fit the units. However some people want to make a bigger deal then it needs to be made into and they want to go around bad mouthing and trashing SSK over something that is not in SSk's control other then being the service center for north America.

I own seven units, 6 are under the SB, I'm not worried about them till I need to be worried about them, in other words I pre flight my rigs each jump, I look at the AAD each time to make sure it is on, taking an extra half second to push the button and watch a light is not a big deal. If for some reason I need to have service done before my 4 yr check, I know with out a shadow of a doubt that not only can SSK handle the servicing of the units, it will done in a quick manner and I won't be charged any extra for that update.

I have no problem with people taking issue with airtec, but to go out of ones way to talk misleading shit about a good upstanding company, SSK, is bullshit, that is the point you and a few other can't seem to understand.



Would you mind pointing out where I shit talk SSK? Well?
And just so we're clear, I don't give a flying fuck about you and your "ol boys club" what the issue to be discussed here is whether something that is known to fail (to the point of issuing a SB) should or should not be repaired immediately? Perhaps we could entertain thoughts on the +or- of having the service done and what that means to the dealer and the customer. We could also look at the legal side as well. Perhaps have some input from that shark guy or the law rocket beagles.
Heres the scenario: Jhonny Rotten is an instructor at xyz, uses two rigs one with a vigil and one with a cyp. The guy gets busy as shit, forgets his cyp check, gets into a wreck during his jump and bounces. Airtec claims he never did his check and his suing family says prove he didn't it was the device he had, here's the SB on it.
I can almost guarantee there will be jumps made by jumpers who either don't care or just plain forgot to check, having had old habits engrained in their routine such as "set it and forget it" and people can bitch all they want about how said jumper is an idiot and deserves a Darwin award, but sadly ladies and gents that is the reality of skydiving today.

Here's some more fuel:$" Fifteen units have become “non-responsive” out of the 32,000 produced during this date range," Now I wonder what the Agus failure rate was VS the cyp rate now, before we have mfgs banning the product?:D:D:D

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You're right. They should of immediately recalled all affected units and then return them when their repairs department can get them done. I'm sure current capacities wouldn't have them out of the customer's hands for more than 6 months to a year.

How silly to create a work around solution so easy a baby could manage it, in order to keep units on people's backs for safety's sake, and have a plan to rectify the situation in a timely fashion.

What were they thinking?
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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Would you mind pointing out where I shit talk SSK? Well?



Well ace, you were replying to my post that was directed to the person talking shit! No where did I say YOU were talking shit, you want to pick apart my post towards another and yet totally fail to grasp the point, seems clear to me, you to still fail to get the point that was being made, has nothing to with any good old boys club, and if you bother to take the time to research you fast find out I'm not welcome in the good old boys club and I have never been a card carrying member!

The rest of what you had to say was the same old BLAH BLAH BLAH, someone to fucking lazy to do a proper gear check between different brands.

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Jhonny Rotten is an instructor at xyz, uses two rigs one with a vigil and one with a cyp. The guy gets busy as shit, forgets his cyp check, gets into a wreck during his jump and bounces.



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"set it and forget it"



Only morons and fools would ""set it and forget it" and yet if you go in because you forgot to do a proper gear check then yes you get a dumbass award.

Tell you what if you are that bent out of shape about it you have four choices at this point.

1. send in your unit now for service and wait till it's done via any back log.
2. Sell the unit and buy another brand
3. Jump without an AAD altogether
4. Stop jumping

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but sadly ladies and gents that is the reality of skydiving today.



No the sad reality is the large numbers of twits we have in the sport these days that can't take responsibility for their own actions or risks we face each time we jump, such as "The guy gets busy as shit, forgets his cyp check, gets into a wreck during his jump and bounces" sorry about that luck stupid fuck should never had rating to start with and second of all if you can't bother to do a simple gear check that would include checking the AAD prior to the SB and now adding a simple button push after the SB and watching a little light, because "your busy as shit and forget" maybe you take a serious consideration in choice #4.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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I would rather they offer me a free 4 year service on the normal schedule if I choose to not have it updated before that time (in effect them giving me a discount for helping to not increase their workload). That would make me happy, and shows how confident I am that the problem will not affect me.




Good luck with all of that.



I realize it isn't likely to happen, but it does seem like something that would certainly help SSK update units for the people that are more concerned than me, and reduce their cost.



I guess the question will be if Airtec will offer up the option to have the unit serviced before the manditory service. It would help to put peoples (like the op) mind at ease.

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Ace? Morons? Twits? Your credibility is failing like a CYPRES 2 when you talk to people like that. It just continues to show that you have no real argument to support your position.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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hmm,...dont get it,...!!!
what the fuck is so difficult to push a little red button?????
its only a check,...nothing more will happen that the little red lamp is flashing and u go skydive,...

let me think,....i got it!!!!!,....skydivers,....
every dumb idiot who drives a car hit the brakes to see that they are working propperly,....every idiot pilot checks the rudder before takeoff and preflightcheck,...
but skydiver are not able to deal with a propper preflightcheck,...
they are checking their fucking gopro befrore boarding the plane 10 time that the batterie is fully loaded,....
and the same motherfucker ask me " is the red light flashing???" before exit,....

but to push a little button on a saftey divice is TO HARD,...

dont get it,....



If you bought a nice new car, and a month later the company announces that the brakes may or may not have a problem, and that - while they're not going to do a recall - pumping the brakes before you drive off somewhere *should* fix the issue, I think it would be reasonable to be a little concerned.

I bought a Cypress that was manufactured in December. I have been pushing the button before every jump. But I'm not happy that I have one of the units in question. I deal with it, but am not happy about it.

I am not banging down the doors of Cypress or SSK. As I said, I'm dealing with the issue. Regardless of any of that, there are some seriously dick-ish replies in this thread.

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I completely agree. The whole idea of this thread that everyone who attended the PIA should confront a company and complain to them because one person in not satisfied with a simple solution to an odd problem is idiotic. I am not associated with the company in any form but a pretty standard business practice is usually to analyze the problem and come up with an acceptable solution that won't hinder the user to a great extent and allow the company to apply a permanent solution. They did do that. So this really comes down to complainer/whiner trying to get more people to complain/whine with him.

I heard of a possible upgrade to the site when I was t the PIA symposium that would allow users to flag garbage posts. With enough people flagging them the post would be minimized unless you want to read it. At least there is hope to minimize this sort of thing.

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You are correct that one of the purposes of the thread was to apply pressure to the manufacturer to act responsibly and repair the defect in a timely fashion.

I disagree that Airtec is offering an acceptable solution. As far as I can see you are merely being a "complainer/whiner" about a thread you disagree with.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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