Zenister 0
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Quote
That's ridiculous and unworthy of a reply.
I don't see how. In theory same idea. Besides this thread was about the right to bear arms, and particularly CHL programs. The only reason I ever made the comment, was because people seemed to start nitpicking everything rather than providing any valid arguments.
If you want to open the whole conservatism debate, then we might as well close the schools and shut down work, because neither of us would relent, and I could never convince you that you are wrong.
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All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.
AndyMan 7
QuoteThat's ridiculous and unworthy of a reply.
Oh, come on John. Don't act so surprised. This debate became rediculous and unworthy of reply days ago...
_Am
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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
n2skdvn 0
damn this thread aint dead yet???
if my calculations are correct SLINKY + ESCULATOR = EVERLASTING FUN
my site
my site
billvon 2,400
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Basically, I talk to the owner/manager about the signage, but I don't tell
>them that I'm carrying, if I'm carrying, since it is non of their business
> to know if I am or not.
I suppose that's legally correct, but it sure seems downright rude to ignore someone's stated wishes as to what they would like you to do on their property, just because of a legal technicality. Sort of like parking in a handicapped spot because the blue lines are faded beyond state standards. Technically legal, I suppose, but pretty rude.
>them that I'm carrying, if I'm carrying, since it is non of their business
> to know if I am or not.
I suppose that's legally correct, but it sure seems downright rude to ignore someone's stated wishes as to what they would like you to do on their property, just because of a legal technicality. Sort of like parking in a handicapped spot because the blue lines are faded beyond state standards. Technically legal, I suppose, but pretty rude.
If you're trying to call me an asshole, then do it, eitherway, I still have my given rights to arm myself, and thus I do.
Its great when the same people who refuse to hear any arguement that pertains to a statistic outside of gun control to illistrate an example (i.e. the classic death by drowning in a bucket/children with guns example), will resort to a similar arguement that is just as far and outlandish. In this case, comparing a right, one that provides me and my family with an extra amount of protection, with parking in a parking space designated for handicapped persons.
Its great when the same people who refuse to hear any arguement that pertains to a statistic outside of gun control to illistrate an example (i.e. the classic death by drowning in a bucket/children with guns example), will resort to a similar arguement that is just as far and outlandish. In this case, comparing a right, one that provides me and my family with an extra amount of protection, with parking in a parking space designated for handicapped persons.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
jfields 0
QuoteJustin, what do you actually know about the NRA?
I know that the stated goal of educating people about the proper use of firearms has basically become a cover for a pro-gun lobbying group that is trying to defend every aspect of gun culture.
QuoteWhat you learn from the liberal media?
Right. Blame the media. Blame everyone but those at fault. All I have to look at is the public statements of the NRA itself. They make a mockery of safety and civility. The NRA has objected to proposal after proposal that would reduce child deaths and the deaths of bystanders, while still allowing individual gun ownership.
Quoteor what your anti-gun groups tell you?
What are "my" anti-gun groups? My military experience excluded, I never join anything where I am forced to behave and act according to guidelines I don't like. You are being presumptuous, and you are wrong. I am not a card-carrying member of some anti-gun group. I'm just an individual that has retained my ability to reason and rejected the brainwashing of the military and the NRA.
QuoteOr do you just like slamming organizations comprised of 4-million Americans because it suits your argument?
It doesn't matter whether it is 4 people, 4 million, or 4 billion. I'll slam them if they are wrong, or if their policies are a detriment to society. Unlike some members of our government, I am not bought by the NRA lobbyists.
jfields 0
Quote(i.e. the classic death by drowning in a bucket/children with guns example),
Dave,
You'd serve your own arguement better if you just dropped that one. It is BS, and you know it.
From 1997 to 2001, the number of people murdered by firearm was 45,846. The number of people murdered by everything else COMBINED was 24,260. The number killed by handguns alone was 36,097, which is also more than everything else combined. For comparison, rifles were "only" used to kill 2,386 people. Edit: In the same time period, 128 people were murdered by drowning. So you are 358 times as likely to be murdered by firearm than drowning.
Source: FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-10.xls
We are talking about murder and crime. The arguement about kids getting killed by bucket-wielding criminals is a joke. Guns are used to kill more people than everything else. And despite the assertions, however true, about how people go boar hunting with handguns, the fact remains that handguns are the weapon of choice for murder. Handguns are under more scrutiny than rifles and other weapons for a valid reason.
Well, I think I might have to just bow out of this one pretty soon. I am still amazed at how we cannot corral this topic to a size small enough to debate. I am only glad that our sport is not treated with the same logic with which you treat guns. TOOLS, TOOLS, TOOLS.
As the Great Gary Larson once wrote, "Ray guns don't kill Zarbonians, Zarbonians kill Zarbonians." Make people accountable for their actions, and they will think twice. Concealed carry is at least a help in making criminals accountable. Crime rates are down in Texas. Of course for those who don't live here, feel free to argue about it, since you see us as gun-toting, spur wearing, cowboys anyhow. Oh well, we live here and we seem pretty happy with it, after all CHL is a state law and the state seems pleased. For that matter, with a CHL you are allowed to carry in 23 other states in the union. What, almost a majority? Damn crackpots what were they thinking?
As the Great Gary Larson once wrote, "Ray guns don't kill Zarbonians, Zarbonians kill Zarbonians." Make people accountable for their actions, and they will think twice. Concealed carry is at least a help in making criminals accountable. Crime rates are down in Texas. Of course for those who don't live here, feel free to argue about it, since you see us as gun-toting, spur wearing, cowboys anyhow. Oh well, we live here and we seem pretty happy with it, after all CHL is a state law and the state seems pleased. For that matter, with a CHL you are allowed to carry in 23 other states in the union. What, almost a majority? Damn crackpots what were they thinking?
--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.
jfields 0
I understand that firearms are just tools. Really.
But the problem is that many people aren't capable of responsibly handling them. I'm not talking about criminals. I'm talking about people that buy them legally for home protection, or for concealed carry, or whatever. I'm not trying to squash your ability to do those things.
My problem is that it is too easy to get the weapons, the training requirements are too low, and there is little accountability for the responsible handling of the weapons. If people were more responsible, it wouldn't be so easy for me to pull up tons of examples about people with CHLs accidently shooting people, or getting pissed off and deciding their "self defense weapon" could just as easily solve their argument.
From 1997 to 2001, there were 880 cases of justifiable homicide by private citizens using firearms. During the same period, 45,846 were murdered by firearms. (Source: FBI) So it isn't so surprising why people question the role of firearms in private hands, and the ease of access to them.
Basically, I don't want you, your kid, your neighbor, or the guy that just stole your gun to shoot me, or anyone in my family. How do you propose we do better at making sure irresponsible people don't get guns? That isn't a flame, or a rhetorical question. I'm open to suggestions. Many of the suggestions I've seen that seem sensible get squashed by the gun owners as bad things. Trigger locks, gun safes, exhaustive background checks and waiting periods come to mind. What do you think will work, to preserve MY right not to get shot?
But the problem is that many people aren't capable of responsibly handling them. I'm not talking about criminals. I'm talking about people that buy them legally for home protection, or for concealed carry, or whatever. I'm not trying to squash your ability to do those things.
My problem is that it is too easy to get the weapons, the training requirements are too low, and there is little accountability for the responsible handling of the weapons. If people were more responsible, it wouldn't be so easy for me to pull up tons of examples about people with CHLs accidently shooting people, or getting pissed off and deciding their "self defense weapon" could just as easily solve their argument.
From 1997 to 2001, there were 880 cases of justifiable homicide by private citizens using firearms. During the same period, 45,846 were murdered by firearms. (Source: FBI) So it isn't so surprising why people question the role of firearms in private hands, and the ease of access to them.
Basically, I don't want you, your kid, your neighbor, or the guy that just stole your gun to shoot me, or anyone in my family. How do you propose we do better at making sure irresponsible people don't get guns? That isn't a flame, or a rhetorical question. I'm open to suggestions. Many of the suggestions I've seen that seem sensible get squashed by the gun owners as bad things. Trigger locks, gun safes, exhaustive background checks and waiting periods come to mind. What do you think will work, to preserve MY right not to get shot?
Zenister 0
well as i said earlier in this thread, we could start by actually enforcing the laws we already have, and holding irresponsible gun owners (strike that) people
[rant](gun owners or not ie. if your kid gets killed by your handgun, or your carwash bucket (or any number of the amazingly silly things that happen) call me heartless, but perhaps you weren’t ready for the responsibilities of a parent in the first place[/rant]
responsible for themselves and their actions, rather than adding any more legislation that will be just as ignored and un-enforced.
[rant](gun owners or not ie. if your kid gets killed by your handgun, or your carwash bucket (or any number of the amazingly silly things that happen) call me heartless, but perhaps you weren’t ready for the responsibilities of a parent in the first place[/rant]
responsible for themselves and their actions, rather than adding any more legislation that will be just as ignored and un-enforced.
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Justin,
You missed the point of my last point, you missed it by a huge margin. The point was that Bill Von was pulling up something as ludicrous as the bucket example to try to prove a point against me. I was calling him on the mat about it, since I was making a point that liberals only believe outlandish examples when it seems fit to their ends.
Next time read the entire post and understand what is going on before you reply.
You missed the point of my last point, you missed it by a huge margin. The point was that Bill Von was pulling up something as ludicrous as the bucket example to try to prove a point against me. I was calling him on the mat about it, since I was making a point that liberals only believe outlandish examples when it seems fit to their ends.
Next time read the entire post and understand what is going on before you reply.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
kallend 1,625
"Well, I got one for you, Saddam Hussein we'll resurrect General John
Wayne, and put together a very simple plan...you and the Duke will be
one-on-one and he'll kick your ass as if you were a man!"
Wayne, and put together a very simple plan...you and the Duke will be
one-on-one and he'll kick your ass as if you were a man!"
Still curious as to why you would think an actor who's first name was actually "Marion" (not that he had any control over that) would be able to win one on one with a career army officer who organized a coup to overthrow a government, and then stayed in power for 30+ years despite countless plots against him by dint of sheer cunning and brute force. I'd bet on Saddam winning in less than 30 seconds.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
jfields 0
Quoteif your kid gets killed by your handgun, or your carwash bucket (or any number of the amazingly silly things that happen) call me heartless, but perhaps you weren’t ready for the responsibilities of a parent in the first place
I don't care if your kid gets killed by your gun. I care if MY kid gets killed by YOUR gun. While sad, I tend to agree with you that it is the parents responsibility to deal with things in their own home. My problem is when it leaves the home, or someone in my family visits, not knowing about someone else's potentially irresponsible gun ownership.
jfields 0
Dave,
QuoteYou missed the point of my last point, you missed it by a huge margin.
You're right. I did miss it. I reread and got it about backwards. Sorry.
QuoteStill curious as to why you would think an actor who's first name was actually "Marion" (not that he had any control over that) would be able to win one on one with a career army officer who organized a coup to overthrow a government, and then stayed in power for 30+ years despite countless plots against him by dint of sheer cunning and brute force. I'd bet on Saddam winning in less than 30 seconds.
Dude, its a joke, its was never serious, did you ever go read the rest of the song lyrics like I asked? If you had, you'd understand that the entire song is over the top with stuff like this, its a big country boy type joke.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
The old ballistic database thread is way dead, but I wanted to inject this, since it's pretty new (monday)
mike
Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.
QuoteSource: "Technical Evaluation: Feasibility of a Ballistics Imaging Database for All New Handgun Sales," California Department of Justice, Oct. 5, 2001; "Ballistic Imaging and Comparison of Crime Gun Evidence," federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, May 13, 2002; Review, Dr. Jan De Kinder, head of the Ballistics Section, National Institute for Forensic Science, Department of Justice, Belgium, undated.
ON THE WEB
Read SB35 at www.sen.ca.gov
SACRAMENTO -- Two related California studies to be released this week conclude that it is now impractical to catalog the ballistic "fingerprints" of every firearm in California, findings that gun-control opponents are using to fight calls for a national database inspired by last fall's East Coast sniper shootings.
Recording every firearm made and sold in the nation's most populous state could be overwhelming, according to an internal California Department of Justice report obtained by the Associated Press last fall.
Now, supporters of a nationwide database fear that an independent scientific review of that report, provided to the AP this week, will further undermine congressional support for a national firearms database.
Gun-control supporters want California to lead the way by passing proposed legislation requiring manufacturers to provide a bullet "fingerprint" for every gun made and sold in California, which sells and produces the most guns of any state. Maryland and New York require ballistics be kept only on handguns.
State Attorney General Bill Lockyer sent the initial report to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for rebuttal and asked for an independent review of the research method used by his agency while he delayed the report's public release.
But the independent report, conducted by Belgian ballistics expert Jan De Kinder, supported the earlier state study and disputed the ATF's rebuttal. A copy of the report was provided last week after repeated previous requests were denied.
Gun control advocates said that De Kinder's report shows such databases hold eventual promise, even if they are not ready today.
"We think the system has tremendous potential. It clearly needs more support and development," said Luis Tolley, Western director of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "It's similar to where we were 10 years ago with DNA. ... If there are problems, let's solve those problems."
Tolley questioned why the state would ask for a review by "someone who has been speaking out against most databases for a long time," given Lockyer's support for a national database.
The review by De Kinder, of Belgium's National Institute for Forensic Science, will be included as an appendix in a report Lockyer will forward to state lawmakers early next week, spokeswoman Hallye Jordan said. That report will put the two negative studies into "context," she said.
Lockyer is expected to conclude that a statewide database for large-scale ballistics comparisons is not currently practical, but he will call for more research and development.
"The department's report shows the need for leadership at the state and federal level to further develop the technology and, ultimately, establish a database of ballistic information," said state Sen. Jack Scott, D-Altadena, who proposes that California collect the data for later use as the technology improves.
Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, expects the Scott's bill may pass, if "politicians in California say, 'The heck with the truth: We want to put this on line.'" However, he said, the studies illustrate that "this needs a lot more study or a lot of money will be wasted."
Lockyer earlier said the state study illustrates the massive technological and logistical problems with tracking more than 100,000 firearms sold annually in California, and more than 1 million nationwide. But he said the potential advantages mean the federal government should make developing a usable database "a top national priority."
Ballistics comparisons already are widely used to match specific bullets to specific firearms, or to link bullets found at different crime scenes to the same weapon. Long before they had suspects in custody last fall, East Coast investigators used such comparisons to conclude that bullets recovered in separate shootings over a wide area came from a single rifle.
Advocates say creating a database containing the unique ballistics "signature" of all firearms would let bullets at crime scenes be matched to specific weapons and owners, in the same way fingerprints can be matched to individuals.
California's initial study found the number of potential computer matches in the state alone "will be so large as to be impractical;" that "a large proportion" of weapons couldn't be recorded; and that each gun's markings change with routine use and can be easily altered. The report also said such an expensive system would have limited results.
A California law required the final report be sent to legislators in June 2001, but Lockyer delayed its release while he asked for the reviews by ATF and De Kinder.
The ATF disputed much of the California report, saying with systems such as a more limited crime-gun database currently being developed by the ATF and FBI, "large-scale ballistic comparison goes from an impossibility to a valuable investigative tool."
But De Kinder supported the state study, rejecting criticism by both the ATF and Forensic Technology Inc., which produces the Integrated Ballistic Identification System that was tested by the state. That system is used in the fledgling national database being developed by the FBI and ATF to compare weapons and bullets recovered at crime scenes.
Not only was the system ineffective in a third to two-thirds of test firings, but "the situation worsens as the number of firearms in the database is increased," De Kinder found.
Such databases hold promise, he concluded, but not without improvements in the current technology.
ON THE WEB
Here's a look at a California Department of Justice evaluation of problems with creating a ballistics database; at the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' response; and at an independent review of the state's study:
THE STATE EVALUATION FOUND:
• The number of potential computer matches to be reviewed by technicians "will be so large as to be impractical and will likely create logistical complications so great they cannot be effectively addressed."
• Linking the same weapon to different crimes will not link the gun to a particular shooter, especially in gang crimes where guns are frequently shared.
• "Cost effectiveness ... has not been documented nor researched." In six years, the Southern California database had 433 "cold hits" from 338 firearms; Sacramento County had 14 matches but no prosecutions; Oakland police had 37 matches and one conviction.
THE FEDERAL BUREAU RESPONDED:
• Computers can weed out more false matches and do it more quickly than the state study indicates, trimming the number to be reviewed by technicians to manageable levels.
• All types of firearms can be catalogued, contrary to the state study, though revolver cartridges are rarely left at crime scenes because they are not ejected when the weapon is fired.
• The state's tests on 792 California Highway Patrol pistols could have been skewed by using a commonly available ammunition that is too hard to clearly show many markings.
THE INDEPENDENT REVIEW FOUND:
• At least a third and as many as nearly two-thirds of weapons tested by the state did not produce usable results, depending on the type of ammunition that was tested. The test methodology was valid.
• Theoretically, a searchable database holds promise. Results could be improved by using different ammunition and by recording the markings made by firing several bullets from each weapon. FTI could improve its technology.
• The state should consider FTI's suggestion to start a two-year experimental program or should monitor the results of ballistics comparison programs in Maryland and New York.
Source: "Technical Evaluation: Feasibility of a Ballistics Imaging Database for All New Handgun Sales," California Department of Justice, Oct. 5, 2001; "Ballistic Imaging and Comparison of Crime Gun Evidence," federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, May 13, 2002; Review, Dr. Jan De Kinder, head of the Ballistics Section, National Institute for Forensic Science, Department of Justice, Belgium, undated.
mike
Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.
QuoteQuoteif your kid gets killed by your handgun, or your carwash bucket (or any number of the amazingly silly things that happen) call me heartless, but perhaps you weren’t ready for the responsibilities of a parent in the first place
I don't care if your kid gets killed by your gun. I care if MY kid gets killed by YOUR gun. While sad, I tend to agree with you that it is the parents responsibility to deal with things in their own home. My problem is when it leaves the home, or someone in my family visits, not knowing about someone else's potentially irresponsible gun ownership.
Way more people are killed by irresponsible automobile operators than irresponsible gun owners and intentional gun murders combined. If you really want to protect your kids, then statistically, you'd be better off attacking that issue. Requiring stricter licensing, training and accountability regarding driving (hell, raising the driving age by a couple years) would save a lot more lives than making all the guns magically disappear instantly.
And regarding the comments by the pro-gun people about "liberals" saying this, and "liberals" saying that, well, I'm a self professed liberal who happens to agree with you on this issue. So instead of labeling and generalization, try dealing with specific people and specific arguments.
There, now that I've pissed off both sides....screw you guys, I'm going home
QuoteI know that the stated goal of educating people about the proper use of firearms has basically become a cover for a pro-gun lobbying group that is trying to defend every aspect of gun culture.
Let me try to give you the correct information, since you are totally misinformed. I am not speaking as a representative of the organization but, the NRA is much more than a lobby. It is an all-encompasing firearms organization. It is comprised of:
QuoteNRA's Competitive Shooting Division offers a wide range of activities in all types of shooting, for everyone from the novice to the world-class competitor. The NRA sanctions over 11,000 shooting tournaments and sponsors over 50 national championships each year.
If you have any questions about the division, please call one of the numbers listed in the Competitive Shooting Functions Directory or, for more general competitions information, call 703-267-1450. For current information on a particular program, click on the appropriate department below. Due to numerous requests, scale drawings of silhouette targets, in PDF format, are available online. Click on Silhouette Probrams below.
Air Gun Programs
Collegiate Shooting
Disabled Shooting Services
NRA Action Pistol
NRA Volunteers
Pistol Programs
Postal Matches
Rifle Programs
Silhouette Programs
Tournament Operations
Tournament Reporting
and
QuoteWhether you're a new or prospective gun owner or hunter in search of training, whatever your age or level of expertise, whatever type of firearm you're interested in, NRA's Education & Training Division is here to help you.
TRAINING DEPARTMENT
From beginner to developing competitor, the NRA Training Department develops safe, ethical, responsible shooters through a network of 41,500 instructors and 1,000 coaches. NRA Training Counselors recruit and train instructors to teach NRA's basic firearm courses. NRA Coaches, in turn, develop competitors at the club, high school, collegiate and national levels.
HUNTER SERVICES
With over 2.3 million members who hunt, the NRA offers hunters a wide range of programs addressing all aspects of hunting, including youth hunter skills, advanced skills training and the conservation of our natural and wildlife resources. All Hunter Services Department programs work toward the common goal of instilling and promoting the skills and ethics that will ensure the continuance of America's proud hunting heritage.
YOUTH PROGRAMS
The NRA helps America's adult leaders and national youth serving organizations set up shooting programs, introduces the first-time or intermediate shooter to a lifetime of recreational and competitive opportunities, and develops programs for NRA youth members and NRA-affiliated youth clubs.
GUNSMITHING
NRA short term gunsmithing schools offer courses on topics such as general gunsmithing, bluing, stockmaking, checkering, engraving, and parkerizing. More specialized courses focus on topics such as accurizing the AR-15 rifle; accurizing varmint rifles; fine tuning single-action revolvers and long guns for cowboy shoots; accurizing the Colt Model 1911 pistol; and English Gunsmithing. Law enforcement armorer classes are also offered.
and
Quote
When it comes to hunting and skills training, America's 17 million hunters have known for years where to go: The NRA. Working in cooperation with the State of New York in 1949, we developed hunter safety training as it's known today. Since then, as our proven hunting education principles have been adopted by one state and province after another, we've expanded our services and assistance to hunters.
Advanced training for young hunters. The latest research and tactics for hunting success. Public works that benefit hunters. A 52-square-mile hunting and shooting paradise. With all this and more, it's easy to see why NRA is the number-one hunters' organization in America.
As well as supporting Hunters for the Hungry.
And
QuoteThe Law Enforcement Activities Division (LEAD) of the NRA was originally established in 1960 under the Education and Training Division. The Police Training Department, as it was originally known, provided a three-day firearm instructor school for the police handgun and occasionally the police shotgun.
In November of 1979, the Police Training Department was reorganized into a separate division called the Police Activities Division and placed under the guidance of G. W. "Eliot" Ness. The firearm curriculum was standardized into a five-day firearm (handgun and shotgun) instructor development school, providing both academic and hands-on training with proficiency requirements.
In 1981, the NRA again reorganized and expanded the Police Activities Division to include police pistol combat competitions as well as training and certification for security officers. The division's title was then changed to the Law Enforcement Activities Division. Over the next 17 years, LEAD continued to expand its role in the law enforcement training field by the creation of four additional firearm instructor schools (patrol rifle, precision rifle, submachine gun, and tactical handgun) and the creation of the Technical Information Center, a central database of firearm information available to law enforcement agencies and their firearm instructors around the country. These changes all came under the direct supervision of "Eliot" Ness, and later Craig D. Sandler, a retired police chief from Nashua County, NH, who would leave in 1996 to become Executive Director of General Operations for the NRA.
In 1998, LEAD found itself under the leadership Ron Kirkland, a retired FBI agent, a FBI National Academy graduate, and former law enforcement national sales manager of Beretta U.S.A. Corp. In Mr. Kirkland's tenure as director, he has implemented the Adjunct Staff Instructor program which has developed a resource of first-class law enforcement firearm instructors from around the country to assist with the increased demand of the law enforcement community for quality instructor programs. Additionally, the separate Police and Security departments were merged to alleviate and streamline the training curriculum. Also, in conjunction with most of the major firearms manufacturers and private firearm training academies, the Tuition-free Firearm Training program was introduced to help defray some costs and provide additional training to the law enforcement community.
The NRA's Law Enforcement Activities Division is continuing to develop and expand its law enforcement training base to serve the widest audience possible with the most current, up-to-date training available. New staff and adjunct staff instructors are changing the face of NRA police, military and security training, while program development and implementation is meeting the realistic needs of officers everywhere. Programs already exist and are constantly being refined based on the tactical use of handguns, shotguns, patrol rifles, select-fire, and long range rifles.
With our 40-year tradition of service to the law enforcement community we look to the future and seek to provide expanded commitment to the best, most current and cost effective law enforcement firearm training anywhere. From a conservative, traditional past, LEAD is aggressively moving into the new millennium.
and
QuoteLike no other institution, the National Firearms Museum proudly illustrates America's priceless heritage of firearms, freedom and the American experience. Through its many galleries are the actual artifacts that were with the Pilgrims as they left the good ship Mayflower, marched with the American militamen at Lexington and Concord, camped near Gettysburg with Robert E. Lee, helped a young Annie Oakley put food on her family's table, or stood on the winner's platform at the Olympic Games. The tapestry of America has been woven by people, places and things and so in the National Firearms Museum, each of the threads of the past bear familiar names like Beretta, Browning, Colt, Marlin, Remington, Ruger, Savage, and Winchester.
and
QuoteSince the NRA's incorporation in 1871, public safety and community service have been among our highest priorities.
Find out why NRA's Eddie Eagle® is the most widely used child gun safety program in America.
Learn how to recognize and avoid criminal attack with NRA's Refuse To Be A Victim® program.
Or find out why more than a half-million Americans every year turn to NRA for the American standard in gun safety training.
See why NRA's law enforcement training and benefits are among the best in the business.
At the NRA, we're dedicated to the lawful, effective, responsible and above all safe use of firearms. And today, we do more to ensure Americans are safe around firearms - whether or not they choose to own them - than any other public or private group.
and
QuoteWhat is the Eddie Eagle Program?
The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program teaches elementary school children four important steps to take if they find a gun. These steps are presented by the program's mascot, Eddie Eagle, in an easy-to-remember format consisting of the following simple rules:
If you see a gun:
STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.
This program, specifically designed for young children from pre-kindergarten through six grade, was developed through the combined efforts of such qualified professionals as clinical psychologists, reading specialists, teachers, curriculum specialists, urban housing safety officials, and law enforcement personnel.
The Eddie Eagle Program is used by schools, law enforcement agencies and other groups and organizations concerned with the safety of children. Materials available through this program include student workbooks, 7-minute animated video, CD-ROM, instructor guides, posters, and student reward stickers.
The NRA is committed to helping keep America's young children safe. In efforts to do so, we offer our program at a nominal fee. Schools, law enforcement agencies, hospitals, daycare centers, and libraries may be eligible to receive grant funding to defray program costs. Grant funding is available in many states to these groups to cover the cost of all program curriculum materials.
The purpose of The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program isn't to teach whether guns are good or bad, but rather to promote the protection and safety of children.
Eddie Eagle neither offers nor asks for any value judgment concerning firearms. Like swimming pools, electrical outlets, matchbooks and household poison, they're treated simply as a fact of life. With firearms found in about half of all American households, it's a stance that makes sense.
Eddie Eagle is never shown touching a firearm, nor does he appear where firearms are being used or sold. He does not promote firearm ownership or use. The NRA does not receive any appropriations from Congress, nor is it a trade organization. It is not affiliated with any firearm or ammunition manufactures or with any businesses that deals in guns and ammunition.
and
QuoteWith more than 125 years' experience in shooting range design, construction, maintenance and operations, no one has more expertise in the field than the NRA.
Arm yourself with state-of-the-art intelligence on shooting ranges. Get help with your shooting facility from the experts. Find where to shoot in your area. Visit one of the finest long-range facilities in the world. Find out how NRA sets the standard by which shooting ranges are judged.
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QuoteWelcome to the National Rifle Association's Women's Programs department! This department is pleased to offer a wide range of programs and opportunities for women from all walks of life. Whether you are interested in hunting, shooting, or crime prevention, we have something for you. In addition, if you are interested in obtaining information about becoming a political activist, certified firearm instructor, joining the NRA or making a donation to The NRA Foundation's Women's Programs Endowment, we have links to direct you to detailed information about these topics.
Women On Target™ is designed to create more hunting and shooting opportunities for women. There are currently about two million American women who hunt and an additional four million who enjoy target shooting. These numbers are steadily increasing. Women On Target™ is helping women learn shooting and hunting skills in a safe and supportive women-only atmosphere by offering women's hunts, instructional shooting clinics and charity shooting events.
DON'T GIVE CRIME A CHANCE
SHARE THE SOLUTION
Refuse To Be A Victim® is a three to four hour seminar geared toward awareness and prevention of criminal confrontations. Topics include home, automobile, personal and Internet security. We show how to integrate common-sense safety strategies into your own individual lifestyle. The seminar is not about guns, nor is it about joining the NRA. It simply provides participants with the information needed to minimize their chances of criminal attack. Refuse To Be A Victim® is a co-ed program, although seminars for women only may be scheduled.
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QuoteNRA Youth Programs offer many opportunities for youths who are interested in the shooting sports and our firearms heritage.
NRA Shooting Sports Camps
Through the Shooting Sports Camp program, people of various ages have the opportunity to learn gun safety, participate in shooting sports activities, learn a new discipline or hone their skills. NRA Shooting Sports Camps are conducted through the collaborative efforts of the NRA, local-level shooting and sporting clubs and other organizations. There are a variety of different camp themes, such as Safety and Firearm Education Camps, Basic Shooting Camps, Competition Camps, Hunters Camps, Special Interest Camps or Youth SportsFests. Click here to request a Shooting Sports Camp Planning Guide and Application.
NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program
NRA Marksmanship Qualification Shooting is an informal, year-round activity for people of all ages. Qualification shooting is the ideal way to develop and build shooting proficiency by progressing through each skill level, from Pro-Marksman through Distinguished Expert. There are courses of fire for rifle, pistol, shotgun and muzzleloaders, with patches, skill rockers, pins, medals and certificates available for each discipline.
Youth Hunter Education Challenge
Improve your hunting skills and learn more about hunting methods and game species with other young hunters. Developed exclusively for hunter education course graduates under 19 years of age, at the regional, state and international levels, YHECs provide graduates with a unique opportunity to test their abilities at a variety of hunting techniques under simulated hunting conditions.
Youth Education Summit and Scholarship Program
This program offers students (current high school sophomores or juniors with a 3.0 GPA) the opportunity to apply for the week-long educational experience in Washington, D.C. and compete for college scholarships. Students with a strong interest in American Government and the Second Amendment are encouraged to apply.
NRA Outstanding Achievement Youth Award
This award recognizes NRA Junior Members who take an active part in the shooting sports through individual participation and educational pursuits. By meeting the requirements to be eligible for the award, youths gain a greater sense of responsibility and an appreciation for the variety of shooting sports opportunities available. Youths who meet the eligibility requirements will receive a special medal and certificate to celebrate their accomplishments. Award recipients will also be eligible for state and national awards.
NRA Youth Advisory Board
The NRA is seeking applicants to serve on the newly-formed Youth Advisory Board. The Youth Advisory Board, or YAB, provides opportunities for NRA Junior Members 18 years of age or under (or Annual and Life members 18 or under) to offer constructive feedback on NRA's youth programs, InSights magazine, and other topics. The YAB represents the broad range of interests and experiences in the shooting sports.
Eagle Scout Recognition
The NRA recognizes the great distinction a young man receives when he is awarded the coveted Boy Scouts of America Eagle Scout Award. Any scout who has earned this rank can receive a beautiful certificate from the NRA congratulating him on this achievement by completing the Eagle Scout Recognition Application.
InSights Magazine
Insights is the NRA's monthly magazine for junior members. Every month the magazine features articles on a variety of topics, such as firearm safety and skill development, hunting, competitive shooting, product reviews, history, announcements of NRA youth programs and events nationwide, news bullets, games and a monthly gun quiz to test your knowledge. Become an NRA Junior Member and receive Insights magazine each month!
NRA Youth Shooting Sports E-Newsletter for Program Leaders
The NRA Youth Shooting Sports E-Newsletter is designed to keep program leaders informed about the NRA's many youth programs, events and resources. Included in the bi-monthly newsletter are topics, such as Program Ideas, Event Highlights, Resources, Training Opportunities, Working Toward the Future and Frequently Asked Questions (F.A.Q.'s).
NRA Youth Shooting Program Development Seminars
Through the Youth Shooting Program Development Seminars, NRA provides adult leaders, club members, coaches, and instructors with the tools needed to start a successful youth shooting sports program. The one-day seminar teaches you how to set goals for the program, how to determine what type of program is best for you, how to budget for and fund your shooting program, how to obtain the necessary equipment, and more.
Resources and Information for Kids, Parents and Program Leaders
NRA has a wide array of gun safety and shooting sports information for youth, parents and program leaders. From the basic gun safety rules to handbooks detailing the marksmanship fundamentals everyone needs to become a successful, responsible shooter. NRA also offers books on how to develop and conduct shooting sport programs.
NRA Youth 2000
An opportunity for anyone interested in preserving the future of the shooting sports to help make a difference by sponsoring a junior shooting club (4-H, FFA Chapter, Boy Scout Troop, etc.) for a one-year NRA junior club affiliation! For each $15 donation towards NRA YOUTH 2000 the donor will receive a unique lapel/hat pin and a postcard with the name of the junior shooting club who becomes the recipient of the 1-year NRA Club Affiliation!
Cooperative Youth Organizations Program
Youth organizations can become part of the NRA network of clubs. As an NRA affiliated club you have access to a variety of resources, programs and training for your youth participants and program leaders. Organizations who have affiliated with NRA include: Boy Scout troops, American Legion posts, JROTC units, 4-H clubs, FFA chapters, commercial summer camps and U.S. Jaycee chapters. Take advantage of the free one-year youth club affiliation program, Youth 2000.
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QuoteThe most tangible, timely benefit of NRA membership is the magazines -- AMERICAN RIFLEMAN, AMERICAN HUNTER, AMERICA's 1st FREEDOM, WOMEN'S OUTLOOK -- from which members may choose one for their monthly subscription. InSIGHTS is a benefit of junior membership. SHOOTING SPORTS USA is available to members and non-members by subscription only. SHOOTING ILLUSTRATED, the newest magazine, is available on the newsstand and by subscription.
mike
Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.
jfields 0
QuoteThere, now that I've pissed off both sides....screw you guys, I'm going home
You haven't pissed me off, because I agree.
I'd be fine with raising the driving age. I'd also be fine with lowering the limit for DUI. I'd also be good with a mandatory jail term for anyone caught DUI. Say, a year on a first offense? That would do a lot to make the streets safer. You think I'm harsh on guns? Don't get me started on drunk driving.
QuoteMany of the suggestions I've seen that seem sensible get squashed by the gun owners as bad things. Trigger locks, gun safes, exhaustive background checks and waiting periods come to mind. What do you think will work, to preserve MY right not to get shot?
Okay, I am not necessarily against any of those things, in certain context. But all but of those still rely on personal responsibility.
Trigger locks: you cannot effectively carry a gun with one on, so that remains a measure to take at home. Which is fine with me, but how do you enforce it? You probably will not be able to until a crime occurs. But according to past argument, that does not matter, because you are interested in safety not on conviction after the crime.
Gun safes: exact same issue as above.
But as a matter of fact, both issues are already covered by legal penalty, even as listed by anti gun site:
QuoteState law holds gun owners responsible if they leave a gun easily accessible to a child under 17 years old and the child uses the gun to injure or threaten someone.
So, once again we these are already legally addressed. To buy a gun a federal background check is required. That replaced the waiting period nationally in 1994. I suppose that I would not be automatically opposed to state background checks as well as waiting periods. I have not seen any real debate about them. But removing the waiting period was a national decision in favor of the FBI background check.
So, my response would be if you prosecute the law I mentioned above for making accessible, if you prosecute that strongly enough it is a deterant. I think one of the main difference in how these two sides view the argument is deterant. Just look at it open mindedly for minute and let me explain. Break it down to human nature. We are all human and at some point we have negative or ethically wrong desires. The severity of these varies by the person, but I think it would be safe to say we have all thought of things we would not do because of the consequences. As a young kid you did not do things because of the consequences inflicted by your parents, as you grew the consquences shifted more to a natural or government imposed nature. Many of us would not work as much or go to school as much if there were not consequences. In all honesty, I would even attempt to say that I went to all my classes because i wanted to learn. So the general theory is that consequences deter you from actions.
For criminal activity, this theory becomes very important. For people that for seem reason are not in cooperation with society's ethics, the government imposes a punishment system that adds the consquences that might not be present in their consciense. This is the very base of all criminal law. The worse the punishment, the less likely you are to commit the act.
Now, apply that theory to gun control. If you punish someone strongly enough for allowing minors access to gun, there will be a sufficient deterant from doing so. The same applies to criminals. If you raise the possibility of getting shot committing a crime, the motivation to commit drops, it is simple human survival instinct. At some point hopefully, you rarely need a gun, because the knowledge it may be present is enough.
So, if you have other measures to propose, I am willing to consider them, seriously. I just feel that in and of itself that will never be enough. We have to get tough with the law we already have, BOTH on gun owners and criminals alike.
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All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.
originally conservative meant conservative of govermental powers ie. keep it out of my life until my rights and those of another conflict. when disagrements occur then the rule of law takes over. until that point anything i do that affects only myself and/or my family should be allowed..
by that definition i can in many ways pick issues from both sides of the parties and not be contradictory..
unfortunately goverment is also about enforcing social mores and so things like drug use, abortion, marital rights etc are legislated as well..
save me from those who know better than i...
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
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