Enrique 0
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billvon 2,435
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>There is nothing glorious of good about a war. Just tears, fear the
> smell of shit and blood. Torn of limbs, maimed friends and lot's of
> painful deaths.
That's important to remember. And while we use flowery words to describe war, like "the liberation of the people of Iraq", "regime change," "serious consequences" it's worthwhile to remember that what we're really talking about is this.
> smell of shit and blood. Torn of limbs, maimed friends and lot's of
> painful deaths.
That's important to remember. And while we use flowery words to describe war, like "the liberation of the people of Iraq", "regime change," "serious consequences" it's worthwhile to remember that what we're really talking about is this.
jerry81 10
QuoteSo "Yeah, f***ing right" you say?
I'm sorry if I came on too strong. I have, after all, lived for the first ten years of my life in a country that was a federation made up of different nations, all living together in brotherhood. When I was ten, these former brothers started killing each other, which was at the time of my birth unimaginable. So I should know better than to just blurt out what you quoted.
It was, however, blurted out mainly as a response to those who would see an attack on Iraq as a start of another world war. I will (reluctantly) agree with you that chances for an alliance against the US are not as small as I optimistically drew them, but will remain optimistic in pointing out two things;
-a world war in this day and age would without doubt mean the use of nuclear weapons. I still believe that we have evolved to the point where no country with such weapons would use them knowing that it is very likely causing the end of civilization.
-the last two world wars (as well as a lot of other wars here in Europe) were fought for land. Once again, I believe that the time when empires were based on the size of the territory they occupied is over. An empire based on economy and ideology rather than its size is hard to bring down with weapons- a much better way to fight it would be an economical alliance independent of the economy of the empire, with a different view of the world- the EU is, for example, at least partially successful at the latter. This way of fighting could, however, turn ugly if the empire decided it didn't like the independence it's economical/ideological colonies are achieving...
As for behaving like a citizen of the world- I was hoping the US would learn something about this from the 9/11 attacks. Sadly, the reaction we have so far witnessed is that of a small child that has just been spanked for breaking rules that apply to other children (citizens, if you like) and goes to sulk in a corner. But even though this particular child has big guns and a bad temper to match, I still hope the right lesson will be learned eventually.
And last but not least, regarding those who are away from home right now; I hope each and every one of you gets back alive! I will not ask any deity to bless you because I'm an agnostic and I will not thank you for protecting me because I sincerely don't feel that you are. Just be OK, alright? And I still hope you don't have to fight anyone...
kallend 1,651
Anyone that hasn't been there and thinks going to war is a great idea ought to spend a few days volunteering in a VA veterans' hospital.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Kinaa 0
I thought a lot should I write this, but that what I wrote IS war.
War is not what you see on TV.
War is time your sister is crying.
War is time when they want you to die.
War is time when you are afraid.
War is time you are 19 and you walking through a mine field.
War is time when you wish that you had more fun in your life.
War is time when you heard your friend screams.
War is time you lose your friends.
War smell on burned human hear.
War is time when worms eat those same friends.
War is time when you think that there will be no tomorrow for you.
War is when someone by mistake
call your mother to say that you got killed and she get nervous breakdown.
War is when you stand guard in mortuary next to your friends dead body.
War is noise.
War is silence.
War is altered state of mind. Forever.
Don't wish for war.
Those experiences I wrote are mine. It could easily become yours, or your friends. Don't wish him that.
He will newer sleep well, and he will never be the same.
Learn from our mistakes.
I.P.
War is not what you see on TV.
War is time your sister is crying.
War is time when they want you to die.
War is time when you are afraid.
War is time you are 19 and you walking through a mine field.
War is time when you wish that you had more fun in your life.
War is time when you heard your friend screams.
War is time you lose your friends.
War smell on burned human hear.
War is time when worms eat those same friends.
War is time when you think that there will be no tomorrow for you.
War is when someone by mistake
call your mother to say that you got killed and she get nervous breakdown.
War is when you stand guard in mortuary next to your friends dead body.
War is noise.
War is silence.
War is altered state of mind. Forever.
Don't wish for war.
Those experiences I wrote are mine. It could easily become yours, or your friends. Don't wish him that.
He will newer sleep well, and he will never be the same.
Learn from our mistakes.
I.P.
Skyrad 0
Well said. 
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Skyrad 0
'I'm not saying we're perfect but there is a difference. Every Canadian knows that when travelling abroad, you must wear a Canadian flag so that waiters don't mistake you for Americans and spit in your food. '
LOL that is Soooo true! I thought that Canadians were just really proud to be Canadians because they always wear a maple leaf on their clothing or packs and are always telling people that they are Canadian when they come to London. Then a canadian friend explained why they do. Funny thing is I've noticed people change their attitude towards Canadians that they initialy took to be Americans, all of a sudden they're friendly towards them. Canadians are always welcomed in the UK unfortunately its not always the same for Americans.
LOL that is Soooo true! I thought that Canadians were just really proud to be Canadians because they always wear a maple leaf on their clothing or packs and are always telling people that they are Canadian when they come to London. Then a canadian friend explained why they do. Funny thing is I've noticed people change their attitude towards Canadians that they initialy took to be Americans, all of a sudden they're friendly towards them. Canadians are always welcomed in the UK unfortunately its not always the same for Americans.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteCanadians are always welcomed in the UK unfortunately its not always the same for Americans.
No offense, but I don't mind all that much. No desire to visit a rainy, dreary city with bad food, warm beer and pretentious people with bad teeth.
Gawain 0
I did not intend to communicate war was a good idea. I don't wish that course of action. Unfortunately, it appears that all other diplomatic avenues have been pursued.
Guys at my DZ (a lot of Marines) have got/are getting orders to ship off, and while I don't jump with all of them, I don't wish them to go. I hope they all come back safely.
Guys at my DZ (a lot of Marines) have got/are getting orders to ship off, and while I don't jump with all of them, I don't wish them to go. I hope they all come back safely.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Skyrad 0
Never did figure out why so many people dislike Yanks. Oh BTW the UK is not a city but three nations and a province where dental treatment is free. As for food, the states while having good points can't boast cuisine as one of them. No offence. 
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
suz 0
QuoteYou wanna know the difference between the US and the rest of the world?
Honey....do you want me to make a distinct point here????
WE ARE THE WORLD.
There is no "world" then....."USA" we are whole. I was just offended by your post, and thought I'd say what I felt.
QuoteBring it on, we can take it, because we never stopped getting slapped in the face by a bunch of ankle biters. Criminy !!!!!
With comments you just said...no wonder.
Don't bother me, I'm living happily ever after
Genie 0
QuoteQuotei guess i kind of ignored the reality of it but from all the posts of those being activated i guess war is upon us once again. let us be vigilant in our prayers for our service men and women who r protecting our everyday freedoms! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
I think America is a great country with great people. I have always thought this and my holidays spent jumping there have just confirmed this. But in answer to the "moral stance" of the US govt - I disagree with it. It seems very very clear that the only reason for the US to go to war with Iraq is because of the oil. Fine,. if thats what they want to do, we cant stop them. But please stop trying to pretend thats its for all these high noble reasons - to free the populace... i guess 8 days of saturation bombing will do exactly that - doubt it will hurt Saddam tho. They've invaded neighbouring countries! So has America - lets not be hypocritical here.
The reason I am replying to this post particularly is the quote above "our service men and women who r protecting our everyday freedoms". Those freedoms are some of the things i have always admired about the states. I am sad to see you throw them out in order to go to war, and then think thats how you are protecting them. Innocent until proven guilty for example - which crime exactly has sadaam hussein commited against the US ? Or is that freedom only for americans? the Right to due process? - again apparently not - lets see the people in guantanamo (sp?) actually courtmartialled - or returned to their home from where they were taken - no right to liberty for them huh? And if you have crimes, that sadaam committed or caused to be committed - do you have evidence? evidence= "that which can be seen" not just an assertion by your president. In his speech he declared that he has "evidence" that Iraq and Alquaida are linked. Hmm.. If its evidence it will stand by itself - why doesnt he show the rest of thwe world? If its due to fundraising for al quaida then... the american govt for many years facilitated fundraising for irish terrorists - oh no im sorry - they were "freedom fighters" - the fact they fought for freedom by blowing up 12 year olds buying their saturday candy is probably immaterial huh?
I think hundreds of thousands of people will die when this goes ahead - but it wont be the people at the back, it will be the 19 years olds - who are fighting to protect their countries values - except their country is throwing those values out. It will be women and children who are trying to feed their famiies, men who are trying to keep their families together. And the only benefit will be the American hegemony - who will have secured their oil supply for years to come - and wont even have to buy it! Kinda like the Remington guy huh? "I liked the oil so much, i took over their country! "
It is sad to see this happen. It is scary to see this happen. Where does it stop? What if your Govt decides they would like to control the world supply of diamonds - will they attack South Africa? After all South Africa killed some of their own people by torture! But the US govt isnt attacking North Korea - who have WMD, who are making more WMD and whose own populace are estimated to have dropped by approx 5million in the last 5 years ? no, they dont have oil...
Guys, this may have been a little rambling, but im responding to more than one message here. I feel strongly about this - and not because i in anyway think hussein is a nice guy who should be left alone! - but because i hate to see America, the land of the Free and the home of the Brave, acting as the worst sort of schoolyard bully.
I will keep american servicemen and women in my prayers when this goes ahead, and pray they come home safely - but i will also be praying for the mothers and fathers of Iraq who have no control over the fact that they are going to be killed. And their children.
Genie
Once again:
JRaf for PRESIDENT of the WORLD!
.....and a hard boiled egg .
--
ZZZzzzz....
You are inadvertently making an entirely different point to the one you are trying to make here, Gawain.
--
ZZZzzzz....
--
ZZZzzzz....
while I agree with Genie re. the war in Iraq, I fear that Genie has fallen into the same type of simplistic mentality that all the jingoistic pro-war mongers have. This is NOT a simple situation, no matter which side you agree with!! To say "it's ALL about oil" is JUSt as stupid and simplistic as to say "its ALL about weapons of mass destruction"...QuoteIt seems very very clear that the only reason for the US to go to war with Iraq is because of the oil.
folks, crawl out of your little idealistic holes....If it was ALL about WMD why do we give a shit about Iraq & not other countries, including friendlies, that have WMD???
and similarly, if it was ALL about oil, why don't we lift the sanctions against Iraq & let Saddam stay in power & do business with him? I mean , at least he keeps his country under control & suppresses all dissent, so if all we care about is his oil, we should be satisfied with that & continue with him as business-as-usual...
Yes its about oil...it is also about WMD, including biological... did the USA invent stories about Iraqi mobile biological laboratories?? did Al Quaeda grow up & process that anthrax in their little caves in Afghanistan all by themselves?? ...AND it is also about Israel/Palestinians....do you honestly believe that Saddam is not supplying Palestinian terrorists?? His dream is to conquer Jerusalem!
That said, do you honestly believe that none of the actions/speeches of dubya are about re-election?? Or the distraction of the public from the inability to find Usama bin Laden or Zawahiri, the REAL culprits of 9/11??
This kind of shit is why I'm an Independent. This black & white mentality is bullshit. There is ALL KINDS OF SHIT GOING ON HERE, and people who get overly-infatuated with the right-wingers or the left-wingers are living in a political fantasy.
whew, that felt good...
Speed Racer
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Gawain 0
QuoteYou are inadvertently making an entirely different point to the one you are trying to make here, Gawain.
At first, I thought the same thing as soon as I clicked "Post Reply" but in hind-sight the point I wanted to make was in the first sentece, as it was the only way I could communicate and still be somewhat civil.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Faber 0
Im whith you Enrique...![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Stay safe
Stefan Faber
billvon 2,435
>There is ALL KINDS OF SHIT GOING ON HERE . . .
I agree. I also disagree with the people who say "it's all because he has chemical weapons!" or "it's to free the people of Iraq!" or even "it's only about the oil!" From what I can see, it's all about:
-a cheap and friendly source of oil
-making an anti-US dictator less of a threat by disarming him
-not making it look like we can get 'pushed around'
-getting re-elected after a partial failure in a previous war
-intimidating other anti-US countries who would otherwise not pander to us
-retaliation for attacking Kuwauit
-revenge on a man who tried to kill his dad
I think it's about in that order, with 1 and 2 having about the same importance. Others will have different orders depending on their political views. (And for people who don't believe #1 - take away #1 but leave 2, 3, 4 and 5 and you have North Korea. See any difference in how we're treating them?)
I can't really believe the whole "it's to free the people of iraq" nonsense, given our track record in Afghanistan and the natural propensity of war to blow thousands of civilians to bits.
I agree. I also disagree with the people who say "it's all because he has chemical weapons!" or "it's to free the people of Iraq!" or even "it's only about the oil!" From what I can see, it's all about:
-a cheap and friendly source of oil
-making an anti-US dictator less of a threat by disarming him
-not making it look like we can get 'pushed around'
-getting re-elected after a partial failure in a previous war
-intimidating other anti-US countries who would otherwise not pander to us
-retaliation for attacking Kuwauit
-revenge on a man who tried to kill his dad
I think it's about in that order, with 1 and 2 having about the same importance. Others will have different orders depending on their political views. (And for people who don't believe #1 - take away #1 but leave 2, 3, 4 and 5 and you have North Korea. See any difference in how we're treating them?)
I can't really believe the whole "it's to free the people of iraq" nonsense, given our track record in Afghanistan and the natural propensity of war to blow thousands of civilians to bits.
fudd 0
Well, I had really promised myself not to post anymore on USA, 9/11, Irak, Al-Quadi and Bin Laden.
However, is it just me that has the feeling of that Bin Laden is winning his war (or rather his cause)???
What they wanted to achive by 9/11 was chaos, economical recess, anarchy, division and war.
I believe they've achived exactly what they wanted. Some groups want a WWIII, because they believe that after the war they will rise...
Scary thoughts...
There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Read the other posts about people sending off their children, husbands, SO, fathers, etc. directly to uncertainty. Nobody knows if they are coming back. It seems to me that most of them were pretty happy with their families. Now they will have to dodge bullets, missiles, land mines, etc.
Look around you... out on the streets.... look at the war veterans. They gave their leg/arm/sight/dignity "for their Country" and they are living on the streets..... begging for a dollar to buy something to eat. And all for what? A piece of land and tank of gas!
I know that's how our world works, but I just makes me sad.
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