kmcguffee 0 #26 March 4, 2003 QuoteFreedom to travel unrestricted like before 2001. I used to be able to have my luggage locked when I put it on an airplane and it would be locked when it got to its destination. Now if you have a lock it can and does get cut off and they will and seaarch your luggage if anything seems "odd". There are no predetermined critera that says what odd is , its up to the agent. So you are willing to sacrifice 2,000 to 3,000 people each year so that your luggage isn't searched when you travel? I'll just have to disagree with you and move on. I understand your concerns but changes do have to be made. There are no perfect systems. You might be inconvenienced a little in the process. Let's just hope we can prevent another large one. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #27 March 4, 2003 Quote Quote So I figure it's back to building our own model rocket engines See, it's the cloud's silver lining - now we get to be creative! While I expect you're joking, the reason that model rocketry with pre-made engines became approved in all 50 states was that it prevented kids from blowing their hands and faces off when trying to make their own engines. Not one fatality in over 30 years of model rocketry.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #28 March 4, 2003 Yes - but did you run out and buy duct tape and plastic sheet?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #29 March 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteI believe that's exactly what is being advocated along with the pressure supplied by a letter campaign. From what I've seen it is more of "this is stupid, don't do it". They are not presenting an alternative plan that will address the issues. There are no issues. Only a moron would plan a terrorist attack using model rocket components. You can't make APCP fuel detonate. It's less dangerous than gasoline, which you can buy in unlimited quatities.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #30 March 4, 2003 QuoteThere are no issues. Only a moron would plan a terrorist attack using model rocket components. You can't make APCP fuel detonate. It's less dangerous than gasoline, which you can buy in unlimited quatities Write them and tell them that. I don't play with model rockets. I'll bet they are not as "stupid" as you think though. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phatcat 0 #31 March 4, 2003 Of course I was joking - like I said, I used to build rockets when I was a kid. The safety record speaks for itself. But of course you get some moron that finds out and says "you mean kids can just go BUY rocket engines!?!?" I'm suprised that it's been legal as long as it has. Pretty sad - it's a good hobby for kids. I know I learned a lot from it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #32 March 4, 2003 QuotePleae name a few instances where your freedoms or privacy have been intruded on since September 11, 2001. You kidding? Did you not notice what happened to skydiving after sept 11th? Yeah, things went back to normal in most of the country, but I'm still suffering because of the "temporary" airspace restrictions they imposed. Call it security if you want but it sure impacts my freedom. I used to take friends up for airplane rides over my school. We'd just circle around over campus checking things out. It was a lot of fun. If I tried that today, I'd have an F-15 on my ass in about 30 seconds. Am I any more of a threat now than I was then? Before I can fly nowadays I need to check freaking college football schedules to make sure I won't be flying over any stadiums along my route (or soccer or whatever else is in season). Not to mention that I need to file a flight plan and be in communication with ATC with a discreet transponder code every time I fly now. Any idea how much of a pain in the ass that is? We lost a lot of freedom after sept 11th. I might not mind so much if there was a good reason for it, but there isn't. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phatcat 0 #33 March 4, 2003 QuoteBefore I can fly nowadays I need to check freaking college football schedules to make sure I won't be flying over any stadiums along my route (or soccer or whatever else is in season). Are you serious? I haven't been flying for a few years - is it THAT different? I feel guilty saying I really haven't been keeping up with new regulations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #34 March 4, 2003 QuotePleae name a few instances where your freedoms or privacy have been intruded on since September 11, 2001. TSA's new mandatory background check and threat assesment before boarding an airliner. If you come back as "red," they will ban you from flying commercially indefinitely, with no ability to appeal! If you get flagged as yellow, you will be subject to a thorough search (how thorough is unspecified, but I wouldn't put strip or cavity searches past them) every time you board an aircraft, for an indefinite period of time. These threat assesments will be stored for up to 50 years! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #35 March 4, 2003 QuoteTSA's new mandatory background check and threat assement before boarding an airliner. Although I can see the good intentions, that is really fucking scary!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #36 March 4, 2003 15000+ people died in 2000 due to alcohol related traffic accidents. I'm thinking that it would be more worth while to work on those numbers before working on threats that might or might not exist still. I do foresee a day where the ATF starts limiting guns since it prevents possible future terrorist actions.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #37 March 4, 2003 QuoteI do foresee a day where the ATF starts limiting guns since it prevents possible future terrorist actions. Since terrorists buy their guns legally and in the US anyways... Actually, lets not start this debate up again, we've been doing good, staying away from the Gun debate for about a month or so.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #38 March 4, 2003 This is going to kill my plans to be an X-Cor sponsered wing suit rocket pilot. Glen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #39 March 4, 2003 QuoteName one other nation that has a department of "Homeland" security... Substitute "State" for "Homeland" then put the word "Committee" in front. That's what KGB means, only now it's KG "use-to" B. Peter (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #40 March 4, 2003 Quite a few countries have them, like the examples previously given, they're usually the "state police" or called something along those lines.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phatcat 0 #41 March 4, 2003 Quote15000+ people died in 2000 due to alcohol related traffic accidents. I'm thinking that it would be more worth while to work on those numbers before working on threats that might or might not exist still. I was going to say something along those lines, but it's hard with the WTC taboo still there. I know what you're saying, nonetheless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #42 March 4, 2003 QuoteI'll bet they are not as "stupid" as you think though. On a flight from Denver to San Francisco, I sat next to a Flight attendant that was "dead heading". We had a great conversation about how airport and airline security hasn't made much of an improvement and that much of they changes are designed to give the public the impression of heightened security. He agreed that he was only marginally safer flying today than he was September 10th. There are FAA TFR's that prevent over flying a public assembly below 3000 feet. In a Lear jet, packed with explosives, 3000 feet or 5000 feet would not make a difference. A fighter could not be scrambled to intercept much less make the decision that the Lear needs to be intercepted before it was all over. Again, in-convenience to give the impression of high level of security. Nail clippers. C'mon, really. Stand up in an airplane announce that you are hijacking it with a pair of nail clippers. Whatever is left of you would be difficult to perform an autopsy on. Israel has never had an aircraft hijacked, we could learn a thing or two from how they do business. I don't think they are stupid as much as ignorant and misguided. Without major changes and a huge budget, actually increasing our security level would be difficult. So they make policies that make it appear to Joe Q. Public that the security level is OK. Otherwise Joe Q. Public doesn't fly anymore and there goes the airlines and hammers the economy. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ECVZZ 0 #43 March 4, 2003 QuoteWe have a department of homeland security because the term "fatherland" had already been used. The TSA stinks. The department of homeland security stinks. My sympathies exactly! Well said Paul! Greg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #44 March 4, 2003 Well, at least one person got the reference.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #45 March 4, 2003 Paul, who wouldn't get the reference...they're not burning books yet, though.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #46 March 4, 2003 LMAO..... Land of the FREE...... yeah,sure what ever.......we have this joke "Homeland Security department" that need's to look important...... what a bunch of crap, they have been a waste since they started..... i mean shit.... "Everyone should have plastic and duct tape...." oh wait it's a week later...." now we didnt mean it that way..."..... what a freakin waste...... I am still waiting to see a report on how this new "Office" has helped things..... HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #47 March 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteThere are no issues. Only a moron would plan a terrorist attack using model rocket components. You can't make APCP fuel detonate. It's less dangerous than gasoline, which you can buy in unlimited quatities Write them and tell them that. I don't play with model rockets. I'll bet they are not as "stupid" as you think though. I did already. You have a lot of faith in big government.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #48 March 4, 2003 QuoteIsrael has never had an aircraft hijacked, we could learn a thing or two from how they do business. El Al has strict and stringent profiling that it carries out on all passengers, as well as the ability to arrest you for "seeming nervous" and brought back into an interrogation room and detained indefinitely (I do believe that's correct - however, I may be mistaken). No-one will allow profiling here in the US. Even the slightest appearance of profiling here would bring the roof down. Because we won't allow the basic tenant of the Israeli success, there is no way we will be able to mimic their success. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #49 March 4, 2003 >Take heart -- the TSA will not shut down general aviation unless >there is another incident the scale of September 11th. a) Why would they not? They answer to no one. b) There will be more terrorism. Don't forget, 9/11 was the second serious attempt to take down the WTC. >I doubt they could even require implementation of the flight plan >system for very long without some sort of very strong justification. "Tonight the TSA has put in place new measures to protect the lives and freedoms of the American people. With these new flight restrictions we've struck another blow against terrorists who would kill innocent people with their weapons of terror." You really, honestly couldn't see those words coming out of one of our leader's mouths? We have secret military prisons; you think a restriction on some oddball private pilots who just fly for fun will require _more_ justification than secret military prisons where people can be held essentially forever without being charged and without access to legal help? We are losing our personal freedoms one at a time. We will continue to lose them until we use the power of the vote to stop it. To do that people will have to decide that their freedom is more important than temporary security, and I don't see that happening any time soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1freak 0 #50 March 4, 2003 profiling is VERY common here.... it's not right, but it's true....HAVE FUN... ...JUST DONT DIE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
