flyhi 24 #26 March 24, 2003 I have one and don't plan to ever use it. I suck at swooping, but would like to try pond swooping sometime. That is the only thing stopping me, right now, a wet cypress. Maybe get a second rig w/o one just for that.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stilettodude 0 #27 March 24, 2003 i have made over 300 jumps without one but as of this year i now have a cypress. I will never depend on it ........its man made and can fail. Have any of you dudes heard of an AAD firing in a high-speed hook or turn??? Philip "HOW LOW CAN YOU GO?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #28 March 24, 2003 I have a cypres in my rig now and am getting one for my second rig when it comes in. There is a guy that comes to our dz who was saved by a cypres on a big way. No, he didn't "forget" to pull, he couldn't. There is also a MEMORIAL at our dz for a guy who had one in one rig, and NOT the other. For me, that was all i needed to know. I will have a cypress in every rig i ever own. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #29 March 24, 2003 I have one in my rig. It's 2 years overdue for it's 8 year service simply because they cocked up the first one so badly. If it turns on - great. If not - great. About 2400 of my dives have been done without. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #30 March 24, 2003 I've got a Cypress, but jump as if I don't. I've jumped without them before, and probably will again. No biggie. Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #31 March 24, 2003 i have an AAD installed in my container. i do not depend on it, neither does it give me any higher comfort level knowing it's there. the only reason i have it is you just never know what can happen after exiting a jumpship. hypoxia, accidently being knocked unconcious, etc...i was on a raft dive last year out of hugh's casa, we did the count for zero g, before this jump i never even wore a helmet, i'm glad i had it on that day. the exit went badly, the raft exploded, the 3 guys inside were thrown out, 1 of them had his pilot chute puleed for him by the raft so he got a 13K+ ride out of the deal. but i remember colliding with someone else's helmet, i don't know which one of the others it was, but a collision none the less, after observing the helmet once on the ground, it was obvious that this contact would have rendered me unconcious had i not been wearing a helmet. in any event AAD's when utilized should not be relied upon, they fail as well. i act as if mine is not there, and yes, i've forgotten to turn it on, and have intentionally not turned it on a couple of jumps.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #32 March 24, 2003 QuoteSure, the AAD saved his life, but with proper maintenance, the AAD wouldn't have needed to save his life. That is the thing about this sport. Small things can be fatal. However, to learn that lesson and live is great. I don't think that someones poor judgement should kill them. It is nice that the person lived. I think that anytime your AAD fires, you should sit down, consider why, and remedy that problem. You should be able to learn and live through it. There is an attitude among some jumpers that not having an AAD makes you more aware. I don't agree with that. I personally, not hearsay or legend, know 2 jumpers with thousands of jumps who were knocked out. One with an AAD, one without. The sport lost a shining light in one case. One landed under their reserve with bruises. Their gear was properly maintained, so that is not the only consideration for an AAD. If a jumper can prove to me that they will never be knocked out in freefall, then they don't need an AAD. For the rest of us, I don't want to see the no-pull/low-pull category go back up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyIvan 0 #33 March 24, 2003 I'm still in diapers in this sport, but, I think the use of an AAD is recommended, is like an AIR-BAG in a car, you don't expect it to save your life, but is up to you how good is your driving and the precautions you take when you do drive. My 2 cents.__________________________________________ Blue Skies and May the Force be with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harryskydives 0 #34 March 24, 2003 I have a cypress in both of my rigs, and of course when i do a tandem they have a cypress. Last year I sent one of the cypreses back for its 4 year check, and it took a compleat repack cycle. That was my B rig but i use it quite a bit. I just carried a teammates rig to be repacked and his cypress is over 11 years old. He is putting the cypress from his B rig in this container. But i think we are going to see more jumping with out a cypress once they start running out of date. A $60 trade in sucks. Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #35 March 24, 2003 Quotebut i remember colliding with someone else's helmet, i don't know which one of the others it was, but a collision none the less, after observing the helmet once on the ground, it was obvious that this contact would have rendered me unconcious had i not been wearing a helmet. Agreed. Helmets and AADs are just backups, but it is a good idea that they are there. No one goes out and plans on a bad situation, they just happen. When they happen, you want all the help you can get. This is a very unforgiving sport. Inspect your gear like you don't have a reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #36 March 24, 2003 I have one... I also have an RSL.... I have jumped without the cypres on a few occasions (service, before I bought one). My philosophy is this.. The day that I use either to save my life is the day I reevaluate whether or not I should be in this sport.I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #37 March 24, 2003 QuoteI use either to save my life is the day I reevaluate whether or not I should be in this sport. People you know that you'd never suspect would have used theirs, are still skydiving. It's pretty simple... if you skydive it's a cool add on. Perhaps one day you'll be glad it was in use.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #38 March 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteIve seen tons of people walking around with shirts saying "Fu*k an A.A.D. Pull or DIE!" That's as stupid as No Fear T-shirts. Just some one with an inferiority complex. when those first appeared i was doing ALOT of rock climbing/rappelling. One of our crew who worked in a T-shirt shop made us "SOME FEAR -if your not a afraid your not high enough" shirts about a year later i saw the NASCAR version "not going fast enough"____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #39 March 24, 2003 I have an AAD, but if I have a mal I'm not going to just lie there & wait for the AAD to do the job that I should be doing. And yes, I have jumped while it was being serviced. There was a woman named Sandy Wambach (sp?) who used to frequent my former DZ. she died during a bigway when someone's knee hit her in the head & she went in. If she'd had a Cypres, she might be alive today. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #40 March 24, 2003 Tim, I'm not following what you're trying to say... the point I was trying to make is that I should be doing what an AAD or RSL is doing in most cases. If I'm alive because of an AAD or RSL, I would be looking at why that is the case. if it's because of something I didn't do or made a bad decision, whatever.. maybe I shouldn't be jumping....I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #41 March 24, 2003 Quotewhatever.. maybe I shouldn't be jumping.... That's the only thing I'd question. Sometimes yes sometimes no. Close calls happen in life on a regular basis. But none of those are discussed on public forums. Lowest i've been open above the ground but under my main was sub 300 feet above the landing zone. I would have most definately had a cypress fire. The moment my PC was out I had already wished I'd pulled the reserve. No question had I pulled another second later, I would have been fertilizer. Also, had I not pulled my partner in the sky would have gone in as well. We both had about 800 jumps at the time. Basically all I meant from my reply was, there are some really good skydivers, some of which you know, that noticed they were low as they saw the reserve pilot chute just in time to start turning over. There is one person I could introduce you to if you don't know him already. He had about a 6 to 8 second canopy ride on his main. Pulling LESS than a second later would have killed him. That would have been one of those: This person owned a cypress but it was in for a 4 year check incidents. Oh.. the person he was jumping with had his fire. Ok.. that's enough no shit there I was tales. Moral of the story: If a cypress fire happened to you, maybe you shouldn't jump again but in reality? I doubt it. Move on from it and keep enjoying the life you have been given the chance to keep.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #42 March 24, 2003 >Having given it a lot of thought as I will be getting my own rig >in good time, I feel that wearing one will not do any harm so I >don't see why I shouldn't have one and be safe. >I pose this question: Why Take the chance?, we are talking >about your life here. What if by not wearing one you develop - a greater concentration, - a higher level of awareness, - a more solid, ingrained habit of keeping track of your altitude, - a highly cultivated sense of situations to watch for and stay away from? Why take the chance of not developing those skills, and skydiving half asleep? Maybe that's not only more dangerous, but you're missing half the skydiving experience. >don't see why I shouldn't have one and be safe. :-) That captures the down side really well. The up side is that if you screw up and get low and fast, it will fire your reserve. The down side is if you think it's a magic bullet that makes you safe and you never make the effort to learn about all the other ways to get in trouble where the cypres doesn't help. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #43 March 24, 2003 my 1st 150 jumps are w/o one,I sent mine out for service and waited till repack time to put it back in. I don't turn mine on when doing crw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #44 March 25, 2003 QuoteThere was a woman named Sandy Wambach (sp?) who used to frequent my former DZ. she died during a bigway when someone's knee hit her in the head & she went in. If she'd had a Cypres, she might be alive today. One month before Sandy died, she was organizing a 100-way attempt. I was a base attachment point and my loop got pushed in and eventually came over the top and funneled. She walked up to me and said that I had done a great job trying to keep it together. She had an infectious smile and was great to be around. 1- She did not have an equipment malfunction. 2- She did not lose altitude awareness and go low. 3- She had more experience than 95% of us will ever have. Experience doesn't matter either. She was knocked out during a collision and went in. Something happened to her and an AAD would have saved the life of a great person. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #45 March 25, 2003 Quote What if by not wearing one you develop - a greater concentration, - a higher level of awareness, - a more solid, ingrained habit of keeping track of your altitude, - a highly cultivated sense of situations to watch for and stay away from? Why take the chance of not developing those skills, and skydiving half asleep? Maybe that's not only more dangerous, but you're missing half the skydiving experience. Well, what if you develop all of those skills to the same extent even though you ARE wearing one?? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magistr8 0 #46 March 25, 2003 Quote What if by not wearing one you develop - a greater concentration, - a higher level of awareness, - a more solid, ingrained habit of keeping track of your altitude, - a highly cultivated sense of situations to watch for and stay away from? Jumping without and AAD may do these things, however a good jumper should always be improving upon these should they not? Quote Why take the chance of not developing those skills, and skydiving half asleep? Maybe that's not only more dangerous, but you're missing half the skydiving experience. Please clarify this a little bit. Are you saying sacrificing a little bit of peace of mind ads to the thrill of skydiving? Quote The down side is if you think it's a magic bullet that makes you safe and you never make the effort to learn about all the other ways to get in trouble where the cypres doesn't help. I agree that if you think it will get you out of trouble every time then you are being a bit foolish. At the same time I don't see the harm in having an added level of safety when I am learning those additional skills. "Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools." Napoleon Bonaparte Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skr 1 #47 March 25, 2003 > Well, what if you develop all of those skills to the same > extent even though you ARE wearing one?? Then you're in the best of both worlds. But you have to know that those skills exist *and* make the effort to develop them. I have kind of a statistical impression about today's training from seeing people blindly follow the green light, wait for their beepers to beep, doing things they shouldn't do but it'll be OK because I've got a Cypres and so on. Some people *will* learn all that stuff, the very people with the least need for a Cypres. Everybody *could* learn it, but I see people who aren't and I think it reflects the training people get. Skr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
