What is the future of WFFC?

[skybytch 259]

To me it doesn't matter one bit if he had permission to be out there or if he was told not to or if he was in the wrong place. He knew the risks when he walked out there. He accepted those risks, and he lost. Shit happens.

imho, the brother in law is grubbing for money and going for the deepest pockets possible. Which, again imho, just ain't right.

[fasterfaller 0]

The bad thing about being sued is even if it does get kicked out of court it is still going to cost some serious coin to defend Don and Rod and the WFFC . I like Michele have a statement on my will that if I die base jumping or skydiving that my estate will not pay out untill any heir gives up all rights to sue . Everyone should have this done .

[rhino 0]

Let me explain something to everyone..

Although you "myself" included might not agree with a law suit, you have to understand what it feels like to lose a family member.

I have experienced that loss. These people are looking for closure in ANY way that they can get it. Just to say at least they tried.

It doesn't mean it is the right thing to do? It doesn't mean it is the wrong thing to do? But they have the right to do it. Whether we like it or not.

A man was killed in a horrible way. A family was TORN apart. Ripped to schreds by a terrible misshap.

Don't judge anyone for wanting payback for losing a loved one. Skydiver or not they have the right to sue.

They are acting no differently than a father in a last stand fighting for custody of his son. At least they tried. They are looking for closure so they can get on with their lives.

Money grubbing or not you can't put a $$$ on what a life was worth.

As the ONLY fucking person that ACTUALLY witnessed the accident I have a unique take on the matter. And NO I am not looking for an award. I just can't believe what I am hearing sometimes.

If they sue they won't win. But they have the right to do so. And who are we to judge?

Look in the mirror..

And all anyone has to know is HE SIGNED A WAIVER..

Rob

[Michele 1]

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I wouldn't be suprised if the judge bitch slappes the plantif.

Actually, Arthur, I would be surprised. In most situations, be it jumping or other kinds, judges bend over backwards to protect someone's civil rights, which include the use of a courtroom to hear them out. Whether they will win is not clear at this point, but unless there is a settlement or the plaintiff gets religion, the plaintiff has a right to bring a case to be heard in a courtroom.

As for a judge biotch-slapping someone, very seldom do they actually take any punitive action against the plaintiff if they lose. Occasionally a frivilous law suit is filed, but the camplainant therein must be the exhonerated defendant. Keep in mind that judges do this all day, every day, and literally have little else to do but "judge".

Not being a lawyer, I can't say what would be allowed in during discovery or actual trial, but I would think that the defendants will be well represented, the people on the load called as witnesses (sorry Rhino), and any video tape will be presented. Couple that with the FAA's investigation report, and the fact that they did not emergency-suspend the pilot's license, it would seem fairly clear that the mistake is at the feet of the deceased.
Again, no lawyer here, so correct me if I'm wrong all you lurking lawyers...

Ciels and Pinks-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[fasterfaller 0]

So another skydiver that knows the risks of being around aircraft that are taking off and might not see you is going to sue . It sounds like he is going to put a $$ value on a life . WE DO NOT NEED SUE HAPPY SKYDIVERS . You sue , you no longer are allowed to skydive .

[rhino 0]

You need to read my post again..

They have the right to sue. So would you if your brother or fiance was hit by a helicopter rotor 3 times and died.

[PhreeZone 15]

So do the families of drunk drivers that die get to sue the family of the living sober driver or the car maker for closue?


>Money grubbing or not you can't put a $$$ on what a life was worth.

Actually you can as the Ford Motor company proved a few years back with thier exploding fuel tanks.

>Skydiver or not they have the right to sue.
Right, and you also have the right to be blackballed to prevent future lawsuits.

Also since he admited to have videoed the event it should only take watching the tape to put the lawsuit to bed.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ChileRelleno 0]

I wholeheartedly agree that any "skydiver" bringing lawsuit against another skydiver or DZ/Aircraft operator should be considered an outcast by the rest of us.
I do not agree with any remarks about doing bodily harm to these people.
YES, their families have the RIGHT to sue,whether or not this is right or fair is a another issue,

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[fasterfaller 0]

They may have the right to sue but it is not the right thing to do . I would make the RIGHT decision if that happened to one of my family members and NOT sue . I say post the persons name that is going to sue and blackball them . Sorry it's just my opinion and I am stating it .

[rhino 0]

bla, bla, bla.. I know EXACTLY what is on the tape...

It still doesn't change the fact that they have the RIGHT to a lawsuit.

They won't win but they have the right.

And I am sure Rod, and the WFFC would countersue for damages and attorney fees setting an example for "future" outcasts..

Get real.. If you haven't experienced loss. And I mean close loss then you don't know what the fuck you are talking about..

[Jessica 0]

If my family members sued (which they wouldn't) I would haunt them!!

Skydiving is for cool people only

[rhino 0]

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They may have the right to sue but it is not the right thing to do .

That is an opinion..

[MarkF 0]

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They have the right to sue. So would you if your brother or fiance was hit by a helicopter rotor 3 times and died.

They may well have the right to sue. They may well be seeking some form of closure. Whatever. The courtroom is however the wrong place for it. Imagine how much worse off they'll be when they find out that the poor person who died was entirely in the wrong[1]. Imagine how much worse off they'll feel when they find out that they've bankrupted someone without blame and destroyed another life. Imagine how much worse off they'll be when they get all of that persons costs awarded against them[2].

Very (most) often people who charge off to the nearest courtroom and start showering the countryside with writs don't take the time to consider the consequences. Of course this is all helped by the money grubbing lawyers from Grabbit & Run LLB.


[1] I know nothing if the incident apart from what I've read on rec dot. Hardly a definitive source. I'm reserving my judgement until the FAA and NTSB reports become available.

[2] Dunno how it works there, here if you sue and lose you get to pay the costs of the person you're sueing, ALL of 'em, plus your own. They may well then sue for damage to reputation, business time lost, lost opportunity, punitive damages, costs, etc.


Ooroo
Mark F...

[billvon 2,471]

>That is the most asshole thing anyone can do in my opinion. I
> understand that your opinion may be clouded in a situation like this
> were a loved one dies but if i'm to understand it the one who is
> sueing was on the helicopter?

As is usual (I'm afraid) it's a case of "only I know the true facts, and I'm not telling anyone other than my lawyers, and none of you were there so you don't know a thing." (Of course, in this case, some of the people in this thread _were_ there.)

>I personally would never sue a skydiver or a skydiving club unless
>whatever happened was actually there fault . . .

Dude, you can die in this sport; there is a good chance someone else will bear some of the blame (i.e. bad spot caused an off-field landing, someone cut you off, freefall collision with another zoomy guy.) That waiver you signed is reality - you can really die, or end up paralyzed from the neck down, and someone else may have caused it, and you agreed not to sue. If you do plan on suing under such a situation, you shouldn't have signed that waiver.

[fool 0]

I think anyone who has been in the sport for a number of years (no, I don't mean myself, just in general) have actually experienced loss at one point or another, and many other people in various other ways. I lost very close friends last year, am I suing the American military for dropping a bomb on my friends? No. Although that actually was negligence, and probably would make for a better case. Anyhow, I am sorry that you had to go through what you did, but to assume no one else has dealt with close loss, is in my opinion, fairly ridiculous. No offence intended, just me talking.

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[rhino 0]

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That waiver you signed is reality - you can really die, or end up paralyzed from the neck down, and someone else may have caused it, and you agreed not to sue. If you do plan on suing under such a situation, you shouldn't have signed that waiver.

HE isn't suing.. His family is right??

I am not saying I agree with it because I don't agree. But they are entitled to their day in court.

And I am NOT looking forward to being there.

I am VERY happy that the helicopter with the rest of us didn't go down..

Rhino

[rhino 0]

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I am sorry that you had to go through what you did, but to assume no one else has dealt with close loss, is in my opinion, fairly ridiculous. No offense intended, just me talking.

Don't be sorry for me, I'm ok.... And I didn't say no one else hasn't dealt with close loss did I??

[fool 0]

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HE isn't suing.. His family is right??

If I'm not mistaken, the waiver also takes away the right for family members to sue...

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[rhino 0]

I'm not sure?? Is that the case?

How can you sign away your families right to sue??

[PhreeZone 15]

>Imagine how much worse off they'll feel when they find out that they've bankrupted the plaintiff and destroyed another life.

Odds are they won't care. If they are taking it to court they are convinced something wrong was done by someone else and anyone involved is a target. If they can't be paid and force the defendant to suffer financially, they'll settle for putting them out of business. Sad, but it happens all the time in the court system.

They will probally make some claim how it could have been prevented if this was done or if he would have turned the other way or.... anything but placing the blame on the person that died.

>pay the plaintiffs costs, ALL of 'em, plus your own.
Here if you want that its back to court you go to prove it was a frivilous case...

Anyone remember (for me read about) the family that declared it was their mission to make skydiving safer so no other person needed to suffer a pointless death after thier child died in a tandem accident? They called Dateline in and wrecked a lot of good DZ's names in the process that had nothing to do with the accident. Something like that couild happen here with planes and choppers in general and their ops. It would kill the ability to get planes for boogies, drive of jump plane insurance fees and possibly shut down some of the smaller DZ's that don't make a lot of money that would have to comply with lots of silly new laws beig passed to "make skydiving safer".

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[fool 0]

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Get real.. If you haven't experienced loss. And I mean close loss then you don't know what the fuck you are talking about..

[billvon 2,471]

I agree with most of your post, and I agree that you have a unique perspective on this, but I can't agree with this:

>They are acting no differently than a father in a last stand fighting
> for custody of his son.

Anything involving a child has _nothing_ to do with a situation where an adult does something stupid. A father fighting for his son is trying to do right by a minor, someone who cannot yet decide for himself what is best for him. A family suing someone else is not trying to do right by anyone other than an adult, an adult who _agreed_ that he was in a dangerous area, took a risk, and paid the ultimate price. Suing after his death is doing him a disservice. In a way it's the ultimate (and final) putdown. "Well, he was incompetent to sign that waiver! He didn't understand, he wasn't smart enough to know a helicopter could cut you in half, he _certainly_ wouldn't have done it if he knew that."

That family is going through a terrible time now, and they need all the support they can get. I hope that the skydivers around them are helping them in whatever way they can. There are a lot of ways to deal with grief - anger is an important one, and if they get angry and lash out at people, I hope people understand. If they get angry enough to take a baseball bat and go after someone, I hope someone stops them, because no matter how bad someone is grieving, they do not have the right to hurt someone else in the name of grief. Similarly, if they think that destroying someone else's career as a commercial pilot is an appropriate way to grieve, I hope someone stops them before they do something they will regret later.

[rhino 0]

What is to keep those of us on the chopper from suing the family for him putting US in danger? Call it attempted manslaughter if you will??

That is crazy? Does the madness ever end?

[fool 0]

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How can you sign away your families right to sue??

[rhino 0]

Notice I said IF YOU HAVEN'T