LouDiamond 1 #51 September 1, 2003 Quote I want this gun for personal defense, as well as weekend shooting. So I want reliability and accuracy. I'm also leaning towards the larger calibres. A 9mm ain't gonna cut it. I don't know how much thought you've put into this but just a few of my suggestions. When you say personal defense I assume you mean in your home. The other option is for concealed carry on your person in public. Two things to consider here. One, is that for home defense you want to eliminate multiple penetration of walls if you happen to miss your target. Hand cannons have a tendency to blow big holes in walls. Not sure if you have kids or neighbors to be concerned with. Two, carrying a large caliber handgun around on your person concealed is a pain in the ass, literally. Other factors to consider: Reliability is dependant on what your application consists of. If it means pulling it out every once in a while and it working correctly then just about every gun out there will work(don't get me on a S&W rant) but if your looking at using the gun for matches or any type of serious shooting then your looking at modifing an off the shelf gun. As far as accuracy goes, that boils down to individual shooting skills. Any modern gun is going to shoot where you point it. It's all the variables between your putting your finger on the trigger ,aiming and ultimately squeezing the trigger that determines where the round goes. I have witnessed this first hand and now am fairly good at doing it myself. I watched Jerry Barnhart pick up several guns he had never fired before and shoot them better than the owner from the first round. It's about knowing how to do the basics very well, thats the secret, don't tell everyone As far as your choice in weapons and caliber I can say this, many police and Gov't agencies use 40 so it may or may not affect the cost of your ammo for maintaining proficiency but it is something to consider. I don't want to start a caliber debate. I have shot the model you are looking at in 45 with all the Luke skywalker attachments to include suppressor on the gun. That has got to be the hands down heaviest hand gun I have ever had to tote around short of the Desert Eagle 50. By itself , the weapon is average for weight and "feel" in the hand. Add any of the accessories and it gets awkward. Not to mention the holster, unless you have one made to allow all those attachments to be on the gun, your not going to find anything to readily fit it and if you do it will cost you more than the average price range for a good holster. Just my experience and opinion."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkvapor 0 #52 September 1, 2003 QuotePeople are becoming more trigger happy over here and its thanks to your gun culture over there. Its seen as glamorous or something. I would rather beat shit out of a burglar and get him locked up, rather than do time for murder. Just to educate you, defending yourself is not murder in this country. If *any* asshole tries to do bodily or property damage to you or your loved ones, you have the legal right to defend yourself, your property, or your business, even if that means blowing the low-life scum into next week. Do you see something fundamentally wrong with this basic American right? And you know what? If its between my life and the life of the one trying to kill me, I think that one is quite easy to decide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #53 September 1, 2003 exactly my point. typical cowboy attitude. and then you talk about being socially conscious, you cannot say fuck em i will kill em in one breath and stand on high moral ground in the next. *** can someone say multiple fallacies? look... I'm a husband and a father. It is my right AND moral responsibility to protect my family. It would be morally IRRESPONSIBLE to do otherwise. Also, logic dictates that I defend/protect my family with the most effective means necessary. If a home invader comes in w/ a 9mm and I meet him w/ a baseball bat, did I fulfill my duties as the protector of my family? Don't think so pal... But when I have my 40 cal in hand, stacked w/ federal hydra shocks, you can bet I will be doing everything I can to make sure that my family is secure, safe, and able to live their lives as God intended. I will never lay down so that some thug can destroy my family. If it never happens, great... consider it unclaimed insurance. But if I AM in that situation, well I sure will be prepared. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sinker 0 #54 September 1, 2003 Just to educate you, defending yourself is not murder in this country. If *any* asshole tries to do bodily or property damage to you or your loved ones, you have the legal right to defend yourself, your property, or your business, even if that means blowing the low-life scum into next week. *** That's exactly right... and to further the thought, MOST people here in the US who are "gun freaks" don't have the mentality of "shoot to kill" inspite of what whacked liberal pinkos from other countries might think. Rather, the attitude is to shoot to neutralize the threat. If that results in death, well that's certainly a possibility. However, for me, my thought is that I'm not particularly concerned whether the perp lives or dies, my one concern is to save my family and myself from harm. -the artist formerly known as sinker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemc 0 #55 September 1, 2003 You know nothing about me, never make assumptions I am more than qualified to make an opinion. I have been involved in, been on the receiving end of violent crime. I have been involved with people who own and have used guns. I have been threatened with guns. I am not some posh cunt who hasnt seen anything of life. I have seen enough of life to make me want to go and live on my own in a field somewhere. I believe I have learnt and moved forward from my life experiences. The sooner people realise you cannot fight fire with fire the better. You are all full of shit. Move house if you are so worried and are living in fear. Work at building a better community rather than hump in the sandbags and build your gun turrets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #56 September 1, 2003 QuoteJust to educate you, defending yourself is not murder in this country. If *any* asshole tries to do bodily or property damage to you or your loved ones, you have the legal right to defend yourself, your property, or your business, even if that means blowing the low-life scum into next week. actually guys, it is my understanding that the imminence of bodily or property damage is not enough to protect you from at the least a manslaughter charge. what will be asked and examined is 'did you fear for your life or the life of another'. the old standard of ventilating someone in the front yard and dragging him in the front door doesnt hold water anymore. if an unarmed intruder assumes room temperature in your home, admitting that you knew he was unarmed will certainly result in an indictment. hope i didn't dispel any dearly held images of the wonton nature of our gun culture. freedom fries, anyone?namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #57 September 1, 2003 ok, so your not posh. i can give you that. the sooner people realize that fire will draw fire the better.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemc 0 #58 September 1, 2003 I am not saying that you dont have the right to defend yourself, or if the situation is kill or be killed lay down. I am the last person to turn the other cheek. If I find someone in my garden they are getting a beating. What I am saying is the more people that have guns the more people will buy guns. The more people that have guns the more they will be used. The power you feel when you hold a gun is exhilarating , it is no doubt you want to use them. BUT that is the problem you (not you personally) want to use them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemc 0 #59 September 1, 2003 Anyway, I dont know how I ended up on this I am not usually the one to stand and be counted. I hope you see my point, believe me when I say I do see yours. I just think there are better ways to stop crime. Take it easy, be safe. Later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #60 September 1, 2003 there are 220 million firearms in the US. thats .82 firearms per man woman and child. the issue of quantity and monkey see is obsfucation. the guns are here already. and i assure you that as exhilirating as popping some caps at the range, or perhaps even considering an event in which you might be called to use a gun, drawing down and considering the taking of a human life is disturbing, will kill any dirty harry woody you might be sporting, and in a lot of cases leads to fatal hesitation or fatal misuse. proper psychological and tactical preperation would be a positive paradigm shift.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #61 September 1, 2003 I gues you have be a real american to understand why you 'need' a gun.... Not to bash anyone or start a flame war...but I just don't understand...that's all I wanted to say...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemc 0 #62 September 1, 2003 Quoteand i assure you that as exhilirating as popping some caps at the range, or perhaps even considering an event in which you might be called to use a gun, drawing down and considering the taking of a human life is disturbing, will kill any dirty harry woody you might be sporting, and in a lot of cases leads to fatal hesitation or fatal misuse. proper psychological and tactical preperation would be a positive paradigm shift. Why is it you have to try and be patronising? is it to justify your beliefs to yourself or to have the last word? I get "it". Thats not what I am saying, I am saying my belief is that its wrong for the general public in residential, built up, high crime areas to have guns at home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #63 September 1, 2003 QuoteI gues you have be a real american to understand why you 'need' a gun.... Not to bash anyone or start a flame war...but I just don't understand...that's all I wanted to say... hiya kiddo, r.e. flame war, have you been following this thread? the opening volleys were fired long ago. lol. or maybe you saw the combatants reaching common ground and decided that just will not do. troublemaker it's not about need. it's about constitutional rights. and i don't think you need to be an american, real or imagined, to understand that. good on you for that B license.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #64 September 1, 2003 Quotethere are 220 million firearms in the US. thats .82 firearms per man woman and child. But I have 25,so there goes that theory.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pds 0 #65 September 1, 2003 im sorry, actually i wasnt trying to be patronising. cease-fire. <- is that one word or two?DB: so thats what you did with the money.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #66 September 1, 2003 Quoteit's not about need. it's about constitutional rights. and i don't think you need to be an american, real or imagined, to understand that. yep...I perfectly understand.. here in holland, I have every right to smoke pot untill my ears pop, and I can't tell up from down.. But having the right to do something, doesn't mean you don't have to have the right MIND to not do it..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pds 0 #67 September 1, 2003 Quote But having the right to do something, doesn't mean you don't have to have the right MIND to not do it.. ???? i knew i shouldnt have ditched that philosophy lecture to get high.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikemc 0 #68 September 1, 2003 ok mate have a good day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites meatmissile 0 #69 September 1, 2003 QuoteI like my glock 23 Me too. But there are times when I wish I had rather opted for a 38 special revolver (equal stopping power, half the size, and five shots should be enough for most situations) -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #70 September 1, 2003 knods head read belowLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pds 0 #71 September 1, 2003 Quote here in holland, I have every right to smoke pot untill my ears pop, and I can't tell up from down.. popping ears and faulty altitude awareness. thejolly joker had some kind bud, but i guess i better hold out for the good stuff next time...namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #72 September 1, 2003 Quoteand five shots should be enough for most situations) If you need more then 5 shots as a civilian, you're in one seriously fucked situation and you're probably going to die, OR you can't shoot for shit and you shouldn't be carrying anyways. (tangent rant to follow) I guess I'm an asshole when it comes to shooting skills, I don't take gun responsibility lightly, that's why I've gone through the training I've gone through and that's why I shoot as much as I shoot. People who aren't willing to do that, shouldn't be CCW in my opinion. That's one of the reasons I don't understand hi-cap mags for carry. Yeah, they're great for the range, but why do you need the extra rounds and extra weight? My Glock carries 10 rounds, that gives me a safety incase I have a jam, misfire, whatever. I carry SA since that's what I'm the most proficiant with and the most accurate with. That's another reason why I think weapons like 2-shot Derringers are freak'n worthless as a primary carry weapon. 2 shots, if you need both shots and lets say the primer is bad on one of the rounds...you just screwed yourself. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #73 September 1, 2003 I feel so unarmed.. I have just 9. 2 handguns 6 rifles 1 shotgun....best home defense. 20" barrel pistol grip pump.... short and easy to manuever. Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #74 September 1, 2003 Quotebest home defense. 20" barrel pistol grip pump.... short and easy to manuever. Nope, you're wrong. Its be best home defense because the sound of a pump action shotgun cycling is universally known and very scary to perps. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites meatmissile 0 #75 September 1, 2003 QuoteIf you need more then 5 shots as a civilian, you're in one seriously fucked situation and you're probably going to die, OR you can't shoot for shit and you shouldn't be carrying anyways. That is exactly what I meant. My 23 has a 13 round magazine (I don't live in the US, I assume there are some restrictions there, since it is stamped on my magazines that they are not for sale in the US), but I never load more than eight for carrying. This makes the gun lighter and rests the magazine spring a bit. -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
pds 0 #65 September 1, 2003 im sorry, actually i wasnt trying to be patronising. cease-fire. <- is that one word or two?DB: so thats what you did with the money.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #66 September 1, 2003 Quoteit's not about need. it's about constitutional rights. and i don't think you need to be an american, real or imagined, to understand that. yep...I perfectly understand.. here in holland, I have every right to smoke pot untill my ears pop, and I can't tell up from down.. But having the right to do something, doesn't mean you don't have to have the right MIND to not do it..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #67 September 1, 2003 Quote But having the right to do something, doesn't mean you don't have to have the right MIND to not do it.. ???? i knew i shouldnt have ditched that philosophy lecture to get high.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikemc 0 #68 September 1, 2003 ok mate have a good day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatmissile 0 #69 September 1, 2003 QuoteI like my glock 23 Me too. But there are times when I wish I had rather opted for a 38 special revolver (equal stopping power, half the size, and five shots should be enough for most situations) -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #70 September 1, 2003 knods head read belowLeroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #71 September 1, 2003 Quote here in holland, I have every right to smoke pot untill my ears pop, and I can't tell up from down.. popping ears and faulty altitude awareness. thejolly joker had some kind bud, but i guess i better hold out for the good stuff next time...namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #72 September 1, 2003 Quoteand five shots should be enough for most situations) If you need more then 5 shots as a civilian, you're in one seriously fucked situation and you're probably going to die, OR you can't shoot for shit and you shouldn't be carrying anyways. (tangent rant to follow) I guess I'm an asshole when it comes to shooting skills, I don't take gun responsibility lightly, that's why I've gone through the training I've gone through and that's why I shoot as much as I shoot. People who aren't willing to do that, shouldn't be CCW in my opinion. That's one of the reasons I don't understand hi-cap mags for carry. Yeah, they're great for the range, but why do you need the extra rounds and extra weight? My Glock carries 10 rounds, that gives me a safety incase I have a jam, misfire, whatever. I carry SA since that's what I'm the most proficiant with and the most accurate with. That's another reason why I think weapons like 2-shot Derringers are freak'n worthless as a primary carry weapon. 2 shots, if you need both shots and lets say the primer is bad on one of the rounds...you just screwed yourself. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #73 September 1, 2003 I feel so unarmed.. I have just 9. 2 handguns 6 rifles 1 shotgun....best home defense. 20" barrel pistol grip pump.... short and easy to manuever. Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #74 September 1, 2003 Quotebest home defense. 20" barrel pistol grip pump.... short and easy to manuever. Nope, you're wrong. Its be best home defense because the sound of a pump action shotgun cycling is universally known and very scary to perps. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatmissile 0 #75 September 1, 2003 QuoteIf you need more then 5 shots as a civilian, you're in one seriously fucked situation and you're probably going to die, OR you can't shoot for shit and you shouldn't be carrying anyways. That is exactly what I meant. My 23 has a 13 round magazine (I don't live in the US, I assume there are some restrictions there, since it is stamped on my magazines that they are not for sale in the US), but I never load more than eight for carrying. This makes the gun lighter and rests the magazine spring a bit. -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
