quade 3
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QuoteIn my opinion yes.
So granting a minority the same rights you are entitled to infringes upon your right? Following that train of thought the 19th amnd would've never passed, nor the the 15th since these some how affected your right, or diluted your vote since these granted the right to vote. They're not asking for the World, they just want the same rights you have. Show me one Amnd that prohibited something. BTW that one was repealed. Show me one Amnd that segregates rights or states implicit or explicit these rights only apply to a certain select group. It's not about the word "marriage" it's about the rights that come with that and deny those rights to individuals solely on their sexual orientation. Hell while youre at it might as well define marriage as a union between a man and woman, with certain caveats, i.e, age groups, skin color, race etc.
rehmwa 2
QuoteI think the deal is partly that gay people would like to be married for all the same reasons that some straights find that concept to be objectionable.
It's a meaningful concept, and its meaning is deeply felt by many. Deuce had a good statement about how some people consider the deeper meaning to be the mom/pop/kids (Ken/Barbie etc) paradigm, which is a physical description of a living situation, while others feel attracted to the joining of lives, taking responsibility for each other, and plighting their futures together thing.
That second one can apply to any two people; marriage is a very meaningful word in the US -- why wouldn't it be meaningful to people who take it on its second meaning instead of the first?
And yes, my definitions are slanted. I have opinions.
Wendy W.
Thanks for trying, but this is exactly the muddling that I want to avoid. I'd like to know what the legals are as that's what affects taxes, law enforcement, etc which is under the government. The fluffy emotional stuff is not my business.
This debate is precisely the separation of those two concepts. Thus, why not spell out the details and examine each?
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
I personally think that we should create a civil union that encompasses the various tax breaks, insurance benefits, and other benefits that are awarded to married couples. This should take the place of a marriage liscense, and there would be no discrimination as far as what sort of couple could apply for one.
Then we should make marriage something that is done at your church or place of worship.. along the lines of a baptism. It would be up to the church to decide who could marry. The ceremony would mean something to the religious.. but others could simply apply for the civil union liscense.
The only arguments that I have heard opposing gay marriage are those based on religious views (which in theory should not affect laws) and that its simply not natural. People claim that the purpose of marriage is to have children, and gays and lesbians can't do this naturally. Well....I'm an agnostic and I am not going to have children. Does this mean that I should not be able to marry my atheist boyfriend?
Is fertility testing going to be the next requirement to get married?
"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham
Then we should make marriage something that is done at your church or place of worship.. along the lines of a baptism. It would be up to the church to decide who could marry. The ceremony would mean something to the religious.. but others could simply apply for the civil union liscense.
The only arguments that I have heard opposing gay marriage are those based on religious views (which in theory should not affect laws) and that its simply not natural. People claim that the purpose of marriage is to have children, and gays and lesbians can't do this naturally. Well....I'm an agnostic and I am not going to have children. Does this mean that I should not be able to marry my atheist boyfriend?
Is fertility testing going to be the next requirement to get married?
"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham
that's not a good analogy.
Here's a more appropriate one, I think.
If your mortgage rate is 3%, your rate stays unchanged, no matter what someone else's rate is. You are not affected by someone else having a rate of 5% or 2%. Your rate is 3%, and what goes on in the household next door has nothing to do with you whatsoever.
Here's a more appropriate one, I think.
If your mortgage rate is 3%, your rate stays unchanged, no matter what someone else's rate is. You are not affected by someone else having a rate of 5% or 2%. Your rate is 3%, and what goes on in the household next door has nothing to do with you whatsoever.
Harksaw 0
So, does anyone have a reason why they shouldn't be allowed to marry besides "it means change"?
Definitions of words change all the time. In the early 1800s, the definition of a person didn't include black people. That changed, and it was a good thing. It should have changed.
Meanings of words change all the time. If your only arguement against gay marriage is that it would change the definition of a word, I am really not convinced.
Definitions of words change all the time. In the early 1800s, the definition of a person didn't include black people. That changed, and it was a good thing. It should have changed.
Meanings of words change all the time. If your only arguement against gay marriage is that it would change the definition of a word, I am really not convinced.
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I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.
I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait.
rehmwa 2
QuoteI personally think that we should create a civil union that encompasses the various tax breaks, insurance benefits, and other benefits that are awarded to married couples.
What exactly are these tax breaks, benefits and other benefits? (I'm pretty sure I paid more tax from being married so that's a crappy tax break)
Does anyone here know?
BTW Karen - I like your post, this is what I'd like to see really discussed. Just what are the gay couples getting out of this (and not just the fuzzy insubstantial stuff which can be gotten via a non-governmental service).....
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
bmcd308 0
>>A society is not judged by how it treats the majority of its members, but rather by how it treats the minority.
In some instances, the majority opinion is simply wrong. <<
True democracy can be thought of as the tyranny of the mob. The true role of government is to preserve liberty for the people.
Brent
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www.jumpelvis.com
In some instances, the majority opinion is simply wrong. <<
True democracy can be thought of as the tyranny of the mob. The true role of government is to preserve liberty for the people.
Brent
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www.jumpelvis.com
which is why we have a republic and not a democracy.
if we had a democracy, majority rule could overrule the constitution. because we have a republic and a system of checks and balances, it makes sure that the majority doesn't steamroll over the minority, at least, no more than allowed by the constitution.
if we had a democracy, majority rule could overrule the constitution. because we have a republic and a system of checks and balances, it makes sure that the majority doesn't steamroll over the minority, at least, no more than allowed by the constitution.
Deuce 1
Is homosexual marriage legal anywhere in Europe, as "marriage"? I just read that lots of European homosexual couples are coming to SF to get married.
um...
Netherlands, I believe.
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=814
Netherlands, I believe.
http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/documents/record?record=814
At one point in time the majority of people on the planet thought the world was flat -- they were wrong.
At one point in time the majority of people thought that slavery was perfectly acceptable -- they were wrong.
At one point in time the majority of people thought blacks shouldn't have the same rights as whites -- they were wrong.
At one point in time the majority of people thought that women shouldn't be allowed to vote -- they were wrong.
There are many instances.
The World's Most Boring Skydiver
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