freefalle 0 #1 May 7, 2004 ya kbnow what causes me some concern. A couple of days ago, I was at the DZ, I was listening to a guy with about 75 jumps; lets call him tom to avoid embarassment. He was talking to a newer skydiver with less than 20 jumps, lets call her julie because I forget her name. Tom was acting like hes a skygod with 10,000 jumps, some of the information he was giving Julie although almost right, was incorrect. My bigger concern was their safety, as the were planing a jump together. I've been in the air with him before, hes not bad for his skill level and has potential to do well, but hes really not at a level where he should be attempting to "coach" a new skydiver. I didn't and still don't really feel its my place to correct him, but I did speak to one of the another guys at the DZ and voiced my concers about this guys attitude, he told me, that I wasn't the first one to notice this and that Tom has been talked to before, however he refuses to check himself. He usually presents this behavior with newer female skydivers who Im assuming he's attempting to impress. Now, by no means am I s skygod with 340 jumps, but Im competient for my skill level. Rather than just dismiss this incident, I went to Tom and Julie and offered to work with them a bit and even video their jump for review purposes, at no cost to them, just trying to be nice and maybe keep them safe. Although, Julie was intrested, Tom quickly refused my offer stating "she doesnt have enough jumps to be on video and I just dont think its a good idea Ill work with her and she'll be fine." At first, I though well maybe Im just being sensitive because they refused my help but the more I thought about it the less that is the case. It t just concerns me to see someone attempting a skydive that there really not ready to be doing. Oh well, any thoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudOnMyTongue 0 #2 May 7, 2004 I think it's sad to see things like this. Hopefully they'll be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #3 May 7, 2004 A skydiver that turns down free video isn't a real skydiver. I guess its just a question of how bad his bad advice is. If it's dangerous, either tell him or tell his instructors or S&TA. If it's not, maybe talk to the girl alone and set her straight. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #4 May 7, 2004 he didn't want the kiss pass on video.... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #5 May 7, 2004 I would definitely be inclined to have a quiet word with one of his instructors and/or the S&TA. Today he’s giving dubious advice/”coaching”… who knows what he’ll be up to next? Advising that same jumper that she really needs a sub 100 elliptical as a first canopy? Encouraging low timers to “have a go” at toggle hooks…??? If it were me… I’d say something. Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #6 May 7, 2004 It really sounds like he was hitting on her and saw your offer to video the jump as a threat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallygator 0 #7 May 7, 2004 QuoteIt really sounds like he was hitting on her and saw your offer to video the jump as a threat. or he is afraid she will find out what his true level is by seeing it on video. when i was jumping in arthur we had a guy similar to tom and he came close acouple of times to bouncing that the dzo grounded him for stupidity and a complete lack of safety and awareness. my opinion is do something about it now before it gets too far. take the girl aside if you have too but i would do something to prevent a tragedy cheers,play safe Jah guide -------------------------------------------------- who Jah bless Let no man curse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lifewithoutanet 0 #8 May 7, 2004 If he's been talked to multiple times before and refuses to change, he's unlikely to listen to you. I'd first go talk to her about it. Nothing too alarmist, but you can make a suggestion and lead her to someone who actually is a coach. Try not to slam him too hard, because that what it will look like if it gets back to him. On second thought, that may be just what he needs. Regardless of how you discuss it, talk to "Julie" and introduce her to someone w/ an actual coach rating. That [a rated coach] may be just the nudge she needs and an excuse for her to get away from "Tom". Then, of course, bring up your concerns to the S&TA or DZO. -C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #9 May 7, 2004 It sounds like talking to "Tom" is a waste of time. He already knows it all, at 70 jumps... So, talk to "Julie" on the side, without "Tom" around, and explain the situation to her. Tell her to be free to talk and jump with Tom, but to be wary of his advice, and if anything sounds fishy, to get opinions from more knowledgeable people. Expose Tom for what he is. She doesn't have the experience yet to know this personality type. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pleifer 0 #10 May 7, 2004 dude refusing free video??? well unless he sux and does not want the proof I would welcome a free video, one of the best training aids out there. As far as your delema... that is deffinatly a rock and a hard place _________________________________________ The Angel of Duh has spoke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #11 May 7, 2004 ....... Both these jumpers are still novices or at the best,,, "intermediates".... Tom is incorrect to be giving, coach or Instructor type information to Julie.... but since we try to be considerate and not intentionally demean anyone in front of others.... a minor warning to julie,,,,( and encouragment to "ask your Instructors' ) and an aside with Tom to teach him that he is being inappropriate in his "methods",,, seem to be in order.... 25 years ago,,,, people with these sorts of experience levels, often did jump together, with the person who had more jumps, acting as the "teacher" ,,, however today we have a well thought out and structured curriculum.. to insure that all novices get standardized instruction which varies little from DZ to DZ.....this did not happen by luck.... it happened when Rated Instructors saw the need and developed the programs like Skydive Univ. and the U S P A coach program.... we are no longer in the 'stone-age',,,What used to take a dozen or more jumps to learn can now be accomplished in 2 or 3 well designed well discussed and well de-briefed jumps....... Save that student,,, and rein in 'Tom'....He has plenty to do to simply take care of Himself......in today's fast paced Skydiving world.... Oh and also ask him if he would be so dedicated to "helping" ,,, if the novice was a 58 year old retired guy,,,, who just took up a new hobby.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #12 May 7, 2004 Nah. Just walk up to Tom and ask him for advice. Do it in front of Julie. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #13 May 7, 2004 Quoteshe doesnt have enough jumps to be on video This part irks the hell out of me . . . when do you not have enough jumps to be on video? People get videos of their AFF jumps. This guy is a dumbass . . . not that I'm judging. Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #14 May 7, 2004 A skydiver refusing video? That's about unheard of. If you are truly concerned talk to each of them seperately. Never belittle someone in public and unless it is a real safety issue it's not something that you cannot correct afterwards. If it is a safety issue feel free to but in ASAP.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #15 May 7, 2004 Classic!JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #16 May 7, 2004 Assuming it a USPA DZ, explain to him that she is only able to jump with an AFF Instructor or a coach until she has over 20 jumps and an A license. Then have an Instructor speak with him about his Instructing abilities.-www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #17 May 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteshe doesnt have enough jumps to be on video This part irks the hell out of me . . . when do you not have enough jumps to be on video? People get videos of their AFF jumps. This guy is a dumbass . . . not that I'm judging. Kelly Even though it is a dumbass statement, he got his way and got to jump with the chick and successfully avoided the "threat". Whatever works I guess........... P.S: To the original poster..Why on earth did you even let this jump happen? See Ed's comment. I missed the 20 jumps bit in the first post(hey I am in Bonfire mode ). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #18 May 7, 2004 Quotewhen do you not have enough jumps to be on video? At about oh, i don't know, 91 jumps ON TOPIC: I read this and had to check and see that the poster wasn't from my home dz cause we have a guy like that there too. We just pull the newbies aside and warn them about him. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdweller 0 #19 May 7, 2004 > dude refusing free video??? well unless he sux and does not want the proof < Thats what I was thinking when I read the origional post------------------------------------------------------ "From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SublimeBreeze 0 #20 May 8, 2004 QuoteA skydiver that turns down free video isn't a real skydiver. NO FUCKING KIDDING!!! I kill for free video wtf is this guy thinking... you can video me any day of the week! Its crazy how pussy(ahem... i mean girls) warps minds... No seriosly i'll jump with ya heh =D Peace Sean Sean In Thailand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
