Container Service Life

[CMiller 1]

The gear I'm jumping now is pretty old. I'm in the process of replacing the reserve since the manufacturer only rated it for 20 years (it was built in 1989).

Does anybody know if there are similar restrictions regarding containers? My javelin was also built in 1989, and although it is completely airworthy, does something similar hold true for rigs? Or other types of gear?

[likestojump 3]

Which reserve do you have that the manufacturer specifies 20 year life on ?

to the best of my knowledge Sunpath does not put an age limit on their containers.

[Rover 9]

All Parachutes Australia containers - including the Talon they make under license - lifed at 20 years.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Does anybody know if there are similar restrictions regarding containers?

Yes, U.K manufactuer Thomas Sports has recently (?) stated a 15 year life on thier kit ..... Ref:- STC_2009_04-09

Quote

“TSE 1 Pin Tear Drop containers as all our container systems are lifed for 15 years. TSE container systems may be returned to Thomas Sports Equipment at 15 years old, where the container can be re-lifed for a further 5 years of service.”

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[LavaLady 0]

Quote

All Parachutes Australia containers - including the Talon they make under license - lifed at 20 years.

PA has and will continue to grant limited exemptions to their Service Bulletin No 9502Rev2. http://www.parachutesaustralia.com/s2/SB/PASB9502.pdf The exemption can only be granted after passing an inspection by P.A. If the equipment inspection determines that certain repairs, replacements of modifications are required, the equipment owner retains the right to have these completed by any APF authorised rigger.

[Rover 9]

At each periodic inspection the Packer/Riggers must check the age and condition of the
equipment. Those components that have a finite service life shall be permanently withdrawn from
service when they reach their service life, or earlier if deemed un-airworthy.
Those components which may remain in service indefinitely shall be inspected and if airworthy
returned to service. If determined to be un-airworthy they must be permanently removed from
service.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[jumpwally 0]

I don't know,,it must be me, but its a life saving device,,why jump one 15 years or older,,,my limit is 7 years,,its just not worth it...

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[pilotdave 0]

7 years for a container regardless of condition? Damn, 4 of the 5 rigs in my possession are older than that. And the only one newer than that is being sent back to UPT to get the leg straps replaced. Age doesn't seem to have much to do with condition.

Dave

[councilman24 36]

I don't own a container younger than 10 years old.

One's never been jumped, but it's 11 years old. I just bought it and haven't put it in service yet.

This is one of the issues with service life limits.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[shropshire 0]

Exactly ....

I'd bet that a DZ student rig will be used/abused way more in it's life than my personal gear... So after (say) 10 years, mine will still look in good condition, whilst theirs looks worse.

A lot of us started on club gear that was WW2 vintage ... don't remember hearing about Rig Lifes then ... why now? Are manufactures built such crap gear these days? Or just scared of being sued? ... ummmm

I can see the point of a Use By Date on veggies but not on webbing!!

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Will_Evo 0]

Quote

I don't know,,it must be me, but its a life saving device,,why jump one 15 years or older,,,my limit is 7 years,,its just not worth it...

Im with you, I dont think I will ever buy gear more than 7 or so years old. I understand that a rig and canopy can be in great condition even past that age, but at the same time, with time comes innovation, id rather pay a bit more for a rig and canopy with less jumps and newer more comfortable options. Its gotta save my life, so Ill spend the extra grand. Just the way I feel about it, money can be replaced, I cant be. :\

-Evo

Zoo Crew

[Beatnik 2]

I had a this same conversation with a major gear manufacturer that is a fan of my vintage skydiving jumps. If the gear is airworthy, I say the age shouldn't matter. I have jumped some of the oldest gear that is still in service and have no problems doing it. I have had never jumped gear that is 30+ years old and it was like the day it was made. I have seen some gear a couple of years old that I wouldn't jump.

From a manufacturers point of view, I can understand why some would want a service life. It forces people to buy new and creates more business for them. It also relieves some liability for the really old and ragged out stuff that people abuse.

If the stuff is airworthy, then what does the age have to do with it?

[Slurp56 0]

Quote

If the gear is airworthy, I say the age shouldn't matter.

Quote

If the stuff is airworthy, then what does the age have to do with it?

Functionally, I'm with you 100%.

One could make the argument about the age of the airplane in which you trust your life with, to get you to a suitable altitude, to use your less than 7 year old skydiving gear. It's not un-common for a jump plane to be over 40 years old.

I'll borrow a phrase picked up from a knowledgeable old timer: "I think skydivers, these days, all squat to pee."

________________________________________
I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw.

[pchapman 261]

Quote

Im with you, I dont think I will ever buy gear more than 7 or so years old. I understand that a rig and canopy can be in great condition even past that age, but at the same time, with time comes innovation, id rather pay a bit more for a rig and canopy with less jumps and newer more comfortable options.

Fair enough as an opinion. Especially if you jump a lot and it is your main set of gear.

These days though we're getting well past some major changes in the sport. Although we're not at a plateau, what I mean is this:

If you pick up a used rig that's been around the DZ for a decade, passed from one owner to the next, you may have quite a bit of choice of newer or older styles.

While you can still pick up Vector II's with Raven I's and Sabres for example, you could also pick up gear that's very modern in design, still in production with no or only small changes. Like a PD reserve. Or a Vector III or Javelin or Mirage with good reserve pin protection and tuck tabs everywhere.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

I don't know,,it must be me, but its a life saving device,,why jump one 15 years or older,,,my limit is 7 years,,its just not worth it...

Im with you, I dont think I will ever buy gear more than 7 or so years old. I understand that a rig and canopy can be in great condition even past that age, but at the same time, with time comes innovation, id rather pay a bit more for a rig and canopy with less jumps and newer more comfortable options. Its gotta save my life, so Ill spend the extra grand. Just the way I feel about it, money can be replaced, I cant be. :\

-Evo

That's funny as hell to hear. This year I downsized from my 2005 Mirage to a 2001 Javelin, and trust me, the age was not a factor.

It's even funnier being how much gear I sell and buy - I am yet to have to stumble upon someone selling their stuff because it's "too old".

This of course raises the ethical question - if you think that gear that's 7 years old (btw, why such an ambiguous number ?) is not good enough to jump - would you still sell it to "unsuspecting newbie" or do you just trash it ?

[CMiller 1]

Quote

Which reserve do you have that the manufacturer specifies 20 year life on ?

It's a Micro Raven 153. I have had one ride on it.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Quote

Which reserve do you have that the manufacturer specifies 20 year life on ?

It's a Micro Raven 153. I have had one ride on it.

Can you point me to where Precision limits the life on the MicroRaven canopies ? Also I am guessing you either have a 150 or a 135. Or you are a test jumper.

[CMiller 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Which reserve do you have that the manufacturer specifies 20 year life on ?

It's a Micro Raven 153. I have had one ride on it.

Can you point me to where Precision limits the life on the MicroRaven canopies ? Also I am guessing you either have a 150 or a 135. Or you are a test jumper.

This is what 2 riggers have told me, so that's all I can say. And yes it's actually a 153.

[riggerrob 558]

"A lot of us started on club gear that was WW2 vintage ..."

.....................................................................

Tee!
Hee!
You must be realllly old!
When I started skydiving in 1977, we used Korean War surplus parachutes: round canopies, four pin containers, etc. They were made of that new-fangled, miracle material called "nylon," that was considered sooooo much better than WW2 cotton or linen harnesses because it had a bit of stretch, but no to much stretch like the silk harnesses that were previously fashionable.
One disadvantage of nylon is that it looses elasticity over time. Bright sunlight wil ruin that elasticity within a year, but nylon degrades much slower on the shelf.
Consider that major manufacturers - like Performance Designs - discard thread that has been laying around for more than two years. After that it starts losing elasticity and does not feed through sewing machines as gracefully.

Just last year, a Canadian manufacturer discouraged me from re-sizing a harness that he had built twelve years ago, because he worried about nylon harness webbing degrading.

In conclusion, military surplus harnesses had a much longer service life than modern gear because they were built waaaaay over-strength (think deploying at 600 miles per hour!) so could tolerate far more damage/abuse/dragging/sunburn.

[billvon 2,400]

>I am yet to have to stumble upon someone selling their stuff because it's "too old".

I think a lot of that stuff is retired rather than resold. I know of at least one person who got out of the sport because they were jumping a Micro Raven and expected it to perform like modern gear. He threw it out because he didn't want that to happen to anyone else.

[likestojump 3]

Quote

>I am yet to have to stumble upon someone selling their stuff because it's "too old".

I think a lot of that stuff is retired rather than resold. I know of at least one person who got out of the sport because they were jumping a Micro Raven and expected it to perform like modern gear. He threw it out because he didn't want that to happen to anyone else.

out of context Bill :)

Here's what I mean :

I am yet to see someone trying to sell their gear that is about 7 years old for the reasons that "it's too old".

Obviously some gear gets retired, but I doubt that there's any large number of regular sport jumper gear that is retired at it's 7 year anniversary.

[billvon 2,400]

> but I doubt that there's any large number of regular sport jumper
>gear that is retired at it's 7 year anniversary.

A lot is retired before that due to wear, but I would agree that there's nothing magic about 7 years. I think I'd start worrying at about the 20 year mark, assuming there's nothing else wrong with it.

[jumpwally 0]

Its all JUST personal opinion,,i don't think older gear is bad, its a free world ,do what you want with it. I see alot of gear treated like a wheel barrow,that type of gear is not for me.A lot of gear is mis treated and then washed up and the pig is perfumed,,,fine,,its not what i like. I like new,thats all,nothing more. I just think 7 years is a good life cycle, it works for a lot of things,,,cars,wife ..

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[jumpwally 0]

I will agree,,its a shame what some people call a jump plane,,i don't do boogies any more or travel much just for that reason....

I am lucky because in my area, Skydive Chicago and Chicagoland Skydiving have newer,rebuilt awesome planes,,,much better odds.........

Standing and peeing isn't always the best thing when you go and get a piercing......

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[likestojump 3]

Quote

Its all JUST personal opinion,,i don't think older gear is bad, its a free world ,do what you want with it. I see alot of gear treated like a wheel barrow,that type of gear is not for me.A lot of gear is mis treated and then washed up and the pig is perfumed,,,fine,,its not what i like. I like new,thats all,nothing more. I just think 7 years is a good life cycle, it works for a lot of things,,,cars,wife ..

just to question your choices a little. Strictly from financial standpoint.

Math suggests that at 31 years in the sport you are on your 5th set of gear. Considering inflation, value of dollar. blah blah blah. 5 sets of gear at the very low price of $6000 per set is $30,000 USD. Let's discount that to your 5th set beign only half way through it's useful 7 year life and make your rig total $27,000

Using your listed 600 number of jumps that makes your gear depreciation $45 per jump.

I doubt that there are too many people out there who can afford that. (don't forget that you also have he price of jump ticket and any other variable expenses).

in case anybody cares the $1.00 from 1978 is worth $3.27 in 2008 - which suggests that I am using the value of brand new rig in 1978 of $1834 - can anyone let me know if that's reasonable ?