medusa 0 #151 January 21, 2005 Quote They also said that we all would never have flying cars int he year 2000...And we don't says who??? you?? we do have flying cars, they are spensive and pretty arcaic, but they drive in the street and they fly on the air, and for me my friend thats a flying car. check the attach or go to www.aerocar.comMedusa Get Killed or Die Trying! Patent pending ATFK15456 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #152 January 21, 2005 Quotecheck the attach #1. no attachment. #2. EVERYONE was gonna have them by now. BTW the car you attached....Moulton B. Taylor created the first flying car in 1948. There is a guy building one now using a Lotus http://www.aerocar.com/ Attached is another flying car More history here http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/private/aerocar/info/info.htm#anchor2690349 Notice inspite of all the hype back then you can't go to the local dealer and fly one home today."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #153 January 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteHow exactly does 20 years in the sport qualify someone as an expert on broadcasting and the media? It does not...But 800 jumps and 5 years does not make you an expert on the sport. And people who have been in the sport for 20 years have seen these things tried before....Remember how big "Cutaway" was? People thought a big time motion picture with stars would be the hot ticket.....Yeah, it worked great. But you claim that they just didn't do it right. Not that it makes a difference, but I have 6 1/2 years in the sport. And yes, the problem was that they didn't do it right. Cutaway was at best a bad "B" movie made with bad "B" actors. It couldn't even get a straight-to-video release until it aired on the USA network a couple of times. I think a much better example would be Point Break. Although the whole movie contains probably less than ten minutes of skydiving related scenes, it caused an unprecedented interest in the sport worldwide. The X-Games is another example of doing it wrong. The overhead was simply too high to make it cost effective. Eliminate the overhead, and it's much more doable. QuoteAnd here you go insulting people again: This is a smart alec comment: QuoteHow could I be so narrow minded an uninclusive? I hereby declare today "Everybody Gets to be Right Day"--There are no wrong answers. That's not an insult; it's satire. I'm using hyperbole to discredit the notion that I am narrow minded for thinking somebody else might be wrong about something. QuoteHere you go saying that anyone that does not agree with your vision is wrong and greedy Thats attacking the person, not the argument: QuoteThat's not an insult; it's a scathing remark against the uber-capitalist ideaology adopted by a small minority of skydivers. QuoteI'm suggesting that there are reasons beyond lack of merit why some people might be reluctant to see skydiving on TV. I'm not attacking anybody. sure you are. you are saying that anyone that does not agree with you has "other motives". You can't accept that we are just sick of people trying to make something popular that is not. You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that everyone who disagrees with me is greedy, and I never said that everyone who disagrees with me has ulterior motives. But I do think that some of my opposition is likely spearheaded by greed and ulterior motives. Quote And more insults: Quotebut grow some tougher skin You just keep on trucking. I wish you luck. Do you really? I only ask because you're so vehement in your opposition for someone who simply thinks it's not possible. I kind of get the impression you don't want to see my ideas work. Quote But you refuse to listen and would rather preach that all that don't agree are: Ignorant, greedy, foolish, and thin skined. We have all been where you are, but you think you know better than all of us. Sheesh Because I haven't changed my opinion to agree with yours, I'm obviously not listening? "Sheesh." Now who's being narow-minded? When you say, "We have all been where you are," do you mean you've all been experienced video producers exploring the possibility of USPA providing skillfully edited skydiving competition videos to the secondary sports broadcast market, or do you simply mean you were all less jaded at some point in your lives?I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #154 January 21, 2005 Quote The X-Games is another example of doing it wrong. The overhead was simply too high to make it cost effective. Eliminate the overhead, and it's much more doable. This one I am curious on - just how would you do that? ANYTHING aviation related is going to have a large overhead. Don't forget that most of it would have to be done by union TV workers - that adds to the cost as well. I happen to know a few people that do video production for a living - the cost of that equipment is not cheap at all...esp since you want good looking video. Then there is the character generation, animation, music, and license fees. Then you have to pay the hosts, editters, voice overs, etc. None of that comes cheap. I'm not telling you to not pursue anything. This sport is full of innovators that went against the flow and changed it for the better. Do what you need to do. But just realize there are significant costs when it comes to production for TV._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medusa 0 #155 January 22, 2005 Quote They also said that we all would never have flying cars int he year 2000...And we don't you implied that we didn't have flying cars at all. and that has being probe wrong. now they are not accessible for everybody thats a different point! any way this post is to discus "why skydiving is not a lucrative sport" so lets just forget about flying carsMedusa Get Killed or Die Trying! Patent pending ATFK15456 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #156 January 22, 2005 QuoteCutaway was at best a bad "B" movie made with bad "B" actors. It couldn't even get a straight-to-video release until it aired on the USA network a couple of times. Cutaway was distributed by Artisan Entertainment, the distributors of Blair Witch. When Blair Witch II was released, the income sucked. Cutaway was sold by AE to the USA network to solve a cash-flow problem. That said, I don't think that any writer or director has a perfect record, so a less-than-blockbuster movie doesn't define a career. Guy Manos who directed Cutaway, also wrote Dropzone. Dropzone was relatively successful for an action movie. Guy Manos career profile He is probably the one person who could explain how to achieve as a skydiver and be successful in the skydiving business. DZ owner, movie director, stunt coordinator, world-level skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #157 January 22, 2005 QuoteQuote The X-Games is another example of doing it wrong. The overhead was simply too high to make it cost effective. Eliminate the overhead, and it's much more doable. This one I am curious on - just how would you do that? ANYTHING aviation related is going to have a large overhead. Don't forget that most of it would have to be done by union TV workers - that adds to the cost as well. I happen to know a few people that do video production for a living - the cost of that equipment is not cheap at all...esp since you want good looking video. Then there is the character generation, animation, music, and license fees. Then you have to pay the hosts, editters, voice overs, etc. None of that comes cheap. I'm not telling you to not pursue anything. This sport is full of innovators that went against the flow and changed it for the better. Do what you need to do. But just realize there are significant costs when it comes to production for TV. As I suggested in previous posts, the key would be to broadcast existing competitions, rather than holding new high profile competitions the way ESPN did. I have worked in film and video production for eight years and am well aware of the costs associated with video production. I never said it would be cheap, but it also doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive. This is not feature film production. A small independent production company could handle the ground footage and editing for a reasonable fee. No union workers would be needed. Add a couple of color commentators (experienced skydivers with broadcasting experience--plenty of them around, like Troy Hartman), and you've got a quality production.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #158 January 22, 2005 QuoteQuoteCutaway was at best a bad "B" movie made with bad "B" actors. It couldn't even get a straight-to-video release until it aired on the USA network a couple of times. Cutaway was distributed by Artisan Entertainment, the distributors of Blair Witch. When Blair Witch II was released, the income sucked. Cutaway was sold by AE to the USA network to solve a cash-flow problem. That said, I don't think that any writer or director has a perfect record, so a less-than-blockbuster movie doesn't define a career. Guy Manos who directed Cutaway, also wrote Dropzone. Dropzone was relatively successful for an action movie. Guy Manos career profile He is probably the one person who could explain how to achieve as a skydiver and be successful in the skydiving business. DZ owner, movie director, stunt coordinator, world-level skydiver. I don't want to speak ill of Guy Manos or Norman Kent or any of the filmmakers who made Cutaway because they've done as much from this sport as just about anybody out there. I had a chance to work with Norman once, and he struck me as a really great guy. But I do think their strengths lie more in the areas of cinematography and stunt coordination than writing and directing. According to the WGA, the screenplay for Dropzone was actually written by Peter Barsocchini and John Bishop. Guy Manos and Tony Griffin, along with Peter Barsocchini, received "Story" credit on the film. The truth is, there are very few people in the movie business who can do everything (Robert Rodriguez). The rest of us have to play to our strengths. In my opinion, Golden Parashoot Productions would probably benefit from writers and directors with backgrounds centered more in filmmaking and less in skydiving. I know Guy Manos has another screenplay they were trying to get developed, called Vegas Falls. I certainly hope it gets made and look forward to seeing it if it does. Again, I don't mean to insult anyone; I'm simply stating my opinion as a filmmaker. And everyone knows what part of the body opinions are like.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #159 January 23, 2005 QuoteAnd yes, the problem was that they didn't do it right. Ah, so Guy and Norm did't know what they were doing....I see. QuoteIt couldn't even get a straight-to-video release until it aired on the USA network a couple of times. You don't know your (as you say) "B" movie history. Wow More insults: QuoteWhen you say, "We have all been where you are," do you mean you've all been experienced video producers exploring the possibility of USPA providing skillfully edited skydiving competition videos to the secondary sports broadcast market, or do you simply mean you were all less jaded at some point in your lives? So if we don't think your idea is the cats meow we are jaded? Oh gezze. Look you think I am a jaded, greedy ...whatever. I think you are a young, new skydiver that thinks he has THE "majic" idea that is gonna make skydivng popular.....Just like every other new skydiver."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #160 January 23, 2005 As discussed in the Video fourm by the same people that you would be depending on for your footage of the existing comps... they would be sueing if they go unpaid for their videos. The cost will not go down.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #161 January 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteAnd yes, the problem was that they didn't do it right. Ah, so Guy and Norm did't know what they were doing....I see. QuoteIt couldn't even get a straight-to-video release until it aired on the USA network a couple of times. You don't know your (as you say) "B" movie history. Wow More insults: QuoteWhen you say, "We have all been where you are," do you mean you've all been experienced video producers exploring the possibility of USPA providing skillfully edited skydiving competition videos to the secondary sports broadcast market, or do you simply mean you were all less jaded at some point in your lives? So if we don't think your idea is the cats meow we are jaded? Oh gezze. Look you think I am a jaded, greedy ...whatever. I think you are a young, new skydiver that thinks he has THE "majic" idea that is gonna make skydivng popular.....Just like every other new skydiver. Ron, you are more interested in winning a fight than discussing the issue of promoting skydiving. Your latest post doesn't contain a single supporting argument for your case nor does it elaborate on any of the points you've made in previous posts. Its entire purpose is to insult and discredit me. Apparently I missed the USPA meeting that set the line between infallible skygod and naïve newbie somewhere between seven and eleven years in the sport. I don't know why you take the suggestion that skydiving could be successfully promoted on television as a personal affront, but I will not continue this discussion with you as it turns into a mud slinging competition. Good day.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #162 January 24, 2005 QuoteAs discussed in the Video fourm by the same people that you would be depending on for your footage of the existing comps... they would be sueing if they go unpaid for their videos. The cost will not go down. I'm not talking about using the footage without permission. A release would have to be included in the competition registration. For any camera flyers who would still refuse to allow the use of their footage, my only question is "Why?" Do they expect to sell the footage somewhere else, or do they just figure that because everyone else who shoots footage for TV gets paid thousands of dollars, they should too? Why not use the footage in a manner that might eventually spark the right person's interest and gain them some real paying work?I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #163 January 24, 2005 QuoteFor any camera flyers who would still refuse to allow the use of their footage, my only question is "Why?" Do they expect to sell the footage somewhere else, or do they just figure that because everyone else who shoots footage for TV gets paid thousands of dollars, they should too? Why not use the footage in a manner that might eventually spark the right person's interest and gain them some real paying work? Because several times in the past I've given work to people for personal use at no charge, olny to see that work used in for profit ventures in wich I was not even given credit for said work.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #164 January 24, 2005 QuoteBecause several times in the past I've given work to people for personal use at no charge, olny to see that work used in for profit ventures in wich I was not even given credit for said work. I think that's a very valid point, and it would probably have to be written into the Nationals registration agreement that said footage could not be used in any venture intended to earn a profit, and any profit earned through use of the footage would be subject to a reasonable royalty fee laid out in the agreement. Edited to add: A credit guarantee should also be included in the agreement.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #165 January 24, 2005 QuoteRon, you are more interested in winning a fight than discussing the issue of promoting skydiving No, you seem to be isulting people that don't buy into your "vision". A vision I might add that almost everyone at some point gets in their career. You instead ignore that and would rather insult people. See: QuoteApparently I missed the USPA meeting that set the line between infallible skygod and naïve newbie somewhere between seven and eleven years in the sport. You just can't accept that you are not the first with an idea. Like I said good luck, but I don't need some "visionary" to insult me when I don't agree with him."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #166 January 24, 2005 Rather then going on and on with this debate, I suggest that Douva just do it. Then he can come back here and post: Told you so, told you so.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #167 January 24, 2005 QuoteRather then going on and on with this debate, I suggest that Douva just do it. Then he can come back here and post: Told you so, told you so. Him, or us? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #168 January 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteRather then going on and on with this debate, I suggest that Douva just do it. Then he can come back here and post: Told you so, told you so. Him, or us? Douva, let him just prove to us that he can mainstream skydiving.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
medusa 0 #169 January 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteRather then going on and on with this debate, I suggest that Douva just do it. Then he can come back here and post: Told you so, told you so. Him, or us? Douva, let him just prove to us that he can mainstream skydiving. is not a one man thing only. is a general skydiving attitude that has to be change, I will like to have visionaries all over skydiving.Medusa Get Killed or Die Trying! Patent pending ATFK15456 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
