Why I hate health care

[rhoni_renee 0]

Freeflygoddess wrote: "Later I saw him in the store and I thanked him and I found out he was the one who took care of Derek's twin who happend to have serious heart problems and didn't make it. He was life flighted to another hospital and died in the care of that EMT. I think that flight more than covered for my hospital bill....let alone my complicated pregnancy and Derek's surgery and doctor's visits."

~~~~~
First of all, my condolences for the loss of your other child. I can't imagine how heart-wrenching that was/is. I am glad you guys are fully insured now. I know, for me at least, it's a huge burden off my mind to know my son & I are covered. However, I don't understand how a a complicated pregnancy, surgery, doctor's visits and a med flight "pay for" a different hospital visit. In both cases, you were given services by people who were looking out for your well being and deserve to be compensated.

FFG wrote" I will remeber the next time I see someone hook it in I'll call them a cab. being that most skydivers don't have insurance"

Now granted, I'm not a skydiver yet. However, that seems to be a very broad statement. I am sure there are plenty out there that don't just as there are plenty of scuba divers, surfers and grocery shoppers who don't. I've lurked here for a long time and have seen many examples of people working good jobs (with insurance I'm sure) and skydiving. Also, not having insurance does not equal not paying medical bills. I ended up with a (approximate) $2500 bill after an ambulance ride/emergency room visit for my son. It took me a long time but I made arrangements and regular payments. I paid it off and my credit was better for it.

"Also if you care more about money than the people you take care of, you need another job."

I think *most* people who get into that field do it for the love of helping people, not the money. However, that doesn't mean they want to be taken advantage of when they give their time and energy.

I'm not going to argue that our health care system is golden. It's not. There are major problems as there are in many things. That doesn't excuse exploiting those flaws. Real people are affected by that.

RR

Now is the time to take possession of my life, to start the impossible, a journey to the limits of my aspirations. For the first time to step toward my loveliest dream...." -- Hugh Prather

[eeneR 1]

Going on these lines, what the hospitals bill and what the insurance actually pays...that is correct, it is about 50%...Doc bills $200, Insurance pays $100, and then I get BCBS discount of $100 from doc office and I owe nothing (this is an example, based on the fact I have paid my out of pocket already)

This is first hand experience from the surg I just had....looking at my bills.

I love insurance, why is this? I took the time to make sure I got a job with insurance, then picked the good plan. Yea I pay a lil more a month, but when crap hit I was covered. Sure $90 a month is better then $120 a month now, but the $90 has a $3000 out of pocket max, with a $1000 deductable...while the $120 has a $100 deductable with a $600 max out of pocket with 90/10 coverage instead of 80/20....the second option is much better when you are sitting at home broken and unable to work....now how do you pay the bills?

We need to take responsibility for ourselves and our actions...all of us.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[Lindsey 0]

However, to dismiss the problems that we have with health care because it's what people think is the best is silly.


Hey Val! I don't think many people would disagree about there being problems with paying for health care. That's very real. BUT I definately take issue with people who think it's okay to screw their providers out of payment because they don't like the way their insurance co-pays work.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[jlmiracle 7]

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they can go to the hospital for free and get ambulance rides for free, they even are trying to let them have drivers licenses and such for free....they get jobs and since they accept less money for jobs they drive down the economy, they get all kinds of state aid and housing help and all kinds of stuff that we pay taxes for but we don't get to use..

Its more than illegals getting free health care. At least they work. It really pisses me off when the 350 lb welfare momma with 10 kids gets EVERYTHING for free. She ain't starving. She could stop screwing and get a job.

and I believe what you did is fraud.

J

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

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about $700.00 for the ambulance and another $900.00 for the EMT's

Gimme a freakin break! Thats not even counting the emergency room charges

Probably that high because of the amount of people that skip out on their bills, both legal and illegal.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[jlmiracle 7]

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but I was smart when I went into ambualnce and hospital and told them up front that they were not getting paid and I have no social and to kiss my Canadian butt....

but you said you paid taxes? What is it?

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[skymedic 0]

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Maybe the charges are that high to cover the people who skip out on their bill because it 'wasn't their fault they got sick'.

and there ya go Chris...exactly. I work in a rather..umm..urban environment on the east side of st.louis. we only receive about 2 bucks for every 10 bucks we bill. that is money that is not being put into my pocket as a raise. I am making now what I made close to 10yrs ago. We get no money cause people assume it is paid for by "taxes"...well if ya don't have an ambulance tax and your Fire Dept. doesn't have an ambulance...well then ya don't pay for it.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[skymedic 0]

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I will remeber the next time I see someone hook it in I'll call them a cab. being that most skydivers don't have insurance.

Also if you care more about money than the people you take care of, you need another job.

if you didn't call an ambulance for someone who hooked in that would be unethical. I don't see how this is even close to what I was talking about.


I never once in my job ask for insurance information from patiens. if some one's kid is unconscious in a yard from drinking too much I will treat them to the best of my ability and will all tools available to me. I don't care about money first...I care about the patient first and always will. Trust me if I wanted money I'd go get a different job.

What I do care about is people who don't support there EMS system. Whether that be through paying taxes to a Fire Dept. who has an ambulance...an ambulance district tax....or by paying your bill when it comes. An ambulance is not free. Every year since I started on an ambulance we have better and better equipment...safer ambulances...training for paramedics is almost three times as long now...yet people still assume that there is no cost behind this. wanna know how much your run of the mill ambulance cost's? about 150,000 to start....put a medic and an EMT on there...with training(hopefully)...put equipment on there. a new 12lead monitor can cost upwards of 15,000-20,000. add in all the medications...backboards...Oxygen...etc...etc..etc..

The simple fact is to run an ambulance it cost's money. that money needs to come from somewhere. Anne and I pay one of the highest fire protection taxes in the state of MO, BUT I am guaranteed an ambulance if I need one and it won't cost me a dime because I pay taxes.

Chris, when you ask why it cost so much to take care of your kid...this is why. right here. In the US we can't just walk up to a drunk kid and leave em cause he's drunk. it wouldn't be ethical for one. It also is just not what we are about. BUT cause of his poor decisions he has to pay what to me seems above average for an ALS trip. Where I work we chare about 1000bucks plus mileage. But even that changes with the whole healthcare thing.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Mirage63 0]

Does anyone recall when insurance didn't cover everything. You bascially had coverage when something real bad happen, everything else was out of pocket.

Time rolls on and more benifits get added and people start expecting them, like drug cards ect, ect.....low and behold the cost start going up AND the market corrects i.e. co-pays, higher deductables....

At the company I work at we get 100% of our health care paid for but we do have a high deductable (+$2,000, $20.00 co-pay). BUT we do have people that go to the emergency room for a cold....to avoid the co-pay. This is a small company with about 35 employees.

Two things I believe.

1. There is NO "free health care"
2. There is NO way to have health care that is totally "fair" between people that are working and people that don't.

End of rant.

[Elisha 1]

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Well, you can say the same thing about auto insurance. The responsible people who have it pay outrageous premiums to offset the deadbeats that don't. Also, shopping. Prices are higher to offset losses due to theft. it goes on and on.

Inaccurate.

The Under/un-insured coverage of your premium is usually <10% of your total premium.

As for groups, driving groups with like characterstics and experience are rated differently from others. It is an expected cost for the group - why 16 yr olds pay more than 40 yr olds and people with 2 moving violations pay more than those with zero.

She's not completely inaccurate. People will lie on their policies ("No, I'm the only person living here,") then lie when they have a claim ("No, he isn't living here.") People frequently don't pay for what's being covered for them. Because of these people, insurance companies have to invest in SIU departments, which costs them and the consumers who actually pay money.

Fair enough. It's been said that if there was no fraud, our auto prems would drop 10%.

[skymama 35]

Marc, you're wasting your time. If someone is able to justify why it is acceptable to lie and abuse the system, they will never understand what the problem is.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[freeflygoddess 0]

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but I was smart when I went into ambualnce and hospital and told them up front that they were not getting paid and I have no social and to kiss my Canadian butt....

but you said you paid taxes? What is it?

j

It was just a way to get people all pissy and start talking about why health care is important to have. I am from Texas and well I did get sick and I did take a ride in the ambulance and I did get a copy of the ambulance bill which was paid by the insurance, being that I wasn't at home and all...I really did just want to see what people had to say about illegals and health care in general, cause it is fun and I haven't pissed any one off in a while...and hopefully it helps someone out there to get off their lazy butt and get health care instead of buying their meth or next jump ticket....I know I am cruel and heartless but it is so much fun....but it is true that hospitals and health care facitlities over charge and it is because of illegals that over crowd the system and don't pay....but truthfully we have been through alot of health stuff this past year and a half and well it really sucks that hospitals have to charge so much money for things to compinsate for those people who sneak in here and drive wages down and the economy and raises up the price of health care.

[Kris 0]

Real mature. If you wanted to discuss it, you could have started a thread instead of being deceptive.

You do realize the rules about trolling, right?

Oh, and your credibility is now shot to hell, too. Real mature of ya'.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[skydivermom 0]

YOU ARE RIGHT ON! I get fed-up with the sense of entitlement that some have over here. As mixed-up as our system is, it sure beats the medical care (or lack of medical care) in some third world countries. Maybe if we visited these places and saw what goes on we would not have such a problem paying for healthcare. I'm talking to myself here to. I take my plush and comfortable life for granted too sometimes.

I DO pay my bills, but allow myself to get frustrated occasionally.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[skydivermom 0]

Just wanted to say to you and all other paramedics on this forum. I LOVE YOU GUYS!

I had my first ambulance ride a couple of weeks ago after an AFF jump. Wasn't hurt from the skydive. Had a panic attack after landing. Freefall and landing were kind of scary.

Anyway, I am/was scared to death of IVs and those medics were wonderful! They talked to me and held my hand and the medic that did the IV did a fantastic job! I, too, am uninsured but my husband's company will pay any of our medical bills up to 6 thousand per year. Even if that wasn't the case, I would pay something each month if I had to pay for the rest of my life! Just a sense of responsibility instilled by my mom.

Glad you guys are out there!

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[skymama 35]

You've been around here long enough to know that trolling the forums is against the rules. If you ever do it again, you'll be getting a nice time-out.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[dbattman 0]

Health care costs are spiraling out of control because the system has been abused for decades.

Practicioner fees are expensive because there is a huge shortage that increases every year. I know a hospital in NY that is so hard up for people they will pay off the schooling in exchange for service. Want to go into pharmacy? Give them six years and they will pay to put you through school, and we're not talking about a slave wage either. The only way to attract more and better staff is to increase your pay rates and that money needs to come from somewhere. Why aren't more people becoming doctors or nurses if the pay is so good? It takes years of schooling, years of residency, and when you finally finish at 30 you now have a target on your back saying 'sue me.' When I go to the dentist now, everything is covered in disposable sterile plastic wraps and sometimes the hygenist looks like he walked out of a level 4 bio lab. WTF? Is that really necessary?

We have the same ambulance abuse here in ATL. People want to go downtown, call an ambulance and get a ride to Grady. Some people don't even go into the ER- they just get out and walk down the street. Try refusing to transport a healthy person standing on the corner that you know just wants a ride.

There's a pill for everything under the sun now. Kids are acting up? Here's a pill. Not feeling quite like yourself? Here's another pill. Not a real social butterfly? Here's another pill. We market these things like candy with signs in airports, TV ads, online 'quizes' that if you score more than four, you may have 'ADULT ADD' [gasp]. Everyone wants their drugs paid for as well. I now get to pay more taxes to buy my dad's Lipitor. Wonderful- let him buy it himself. Have an elderly parent, relative, uncle, whatever that has trouble making the med payments every month? Now is the time to step in and pull as a family.

Insurance is sooooo expensive, who can afford it? It is expensive because people use it all the time. I have coworkers who have kids into the doctor every week, sometimes more than once. I had another one who would see every specialist under the sun because she had whatever was being talked about on the news that month. None of them think they should have to cover anything themselves and complain every year when the rates go up. Insurance is supposed to be for the big things- paying for the flu isn't any fun but try moving employees from a 90/10 to an 80/20 or raising the deductible $500. My group plan last year cost the company almost $3k for me. Just me- healthy, 32 year old single guy. I know other people without insurance who say they can't afford it, but you see them every weekend straping on the rig or hear them talk about the shows they watch on their 200+ channel dish network with high-speed internet. Why don't they buy insurance? They can't come up with $75-100 a month to buy a personal individual plan from Kaiser because their priorities are screwed up. That's OK guy, the rest of us will cover it for you eventually. I remember watching a news program about 'alternative medicines' and there were advocates trying to get a bill sponsored to require insurance to cover 'holistic treatments.' They weren't talking about accupuncture or other known successful treatments- they wanted insurance companys to have to pay for things like coffee enemas and those herbal wraps where they put different crystals on you to absorb and balance 'negative energies.'

OK- personal opinion rant is over. Now for the flip side- even with all the venom I spewed out, I still think it is the best deal in town.

Why do I think that? Go spend a few weeks shaking bug crap out of bandages in the thrid world. A real eye opener. Check out the photos- they may not be much to look at, but this is still pretty good compared to what you'd find two villages over where the hospital is a small building with an exam table and maybe a small supply closet staffed by a WHO worker.

Check out the water tower. When the wind actually blows for long period of time you get running water, otherwise it's the bucket brigade. For general use, you use the tanks collecting rainwater from the gutters [carport for tank]. The staff get a small room with a bed and communal kitchen in the nurses quarters. At least the buildings are decent and now have ceilings in the hallways so they don't have a bat problem anymore. There is a functioning OR that gets used twice a year when the volunteer surgical teams come through (cervical cancer is an epidemic among the Amerindians) and a C-arm X-ray machine that no one knows how to use or even wants to learn. But the Med-ex is skilled and competent at diagnosing the local illnesses, does a great job patching and stitching up the owies, and somehow manages to vaccinate 95%+ of the population. Heck, they even get a supply truck every quarter and if the drunk administrator doesn't screw up the paperwork they might even get some of what they need!

It's not all bad though- you get romatic evening meals every night.

I may not enjoy paying copays, deductibles, inflated rates to cover other peoples irresponsible behavior but I consider myself damn lucky to be where I am and after coming back I will never complain about it. What is the solution to our problems? Tort reform, nationalized health care, price caps, compulsory insurance, subsidized medical schooling? Do you not help the migrants and the illegals that pick crops or subsist on day labor? Do we need draconian fraud investigations on every bill to see if its paddeed or if the nose job for a 'deviated septum' was really deviated? I really wish I had the answer, but I don't and the problems will only get worse as the population pyramid shifts towards the blue hairs.

[dbattman 0]