To Get a uspa A Licence

[tkhayes 126]

READ the link i sent you, no it is not an additional 5 coach jumps, it is 5 coach jumps, part of the 25 total jumps.

You seem locked in on very specific requirements. Skydiving is not such a sport. People progress at different rates. Some have all the requirements finished before they get to 25 jumps and simply have to complete the few jumps. Some 'suck' and have skill level difficulties and take a few more umps, time, money, whatever to finish everything.

I was a lousy student and took more time to learn in a few different ways. But the goals and the end result are the same.

But if you go to any dropzone with the idea of EXACTLY 25 jumps and EXACTLY 'this much money', I think you will probably set yourself up for disappointment. If you do well, it goes well and easy, but there are any number of things that can alter your training and progression, only part of which is our own skill level. Weather, illness, motivation, fear, money, travel time, available time to complete, instructors, everything can have an effect on how you progress.

You will 'solo' after finishing the 7 AFF levels You will still be a student, but at least you can solo. A license shows the world that you have demonstrated a given level of proficiency to someone of some qualification, and at least can take care of yourself on a skydive. And you are no longer the school's 'liability'.

[pilotdave 0]

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it sounds like different dzs have different student programs

Absolutely!

There are even two versions of the USPA A-license card. Dropzones get to decide which to use, even though both are equally valid. One version is much easier on the students (and their wallets) than the other. And (in my limited experience) there's a huge difference in the skill level and knowledge of students that get licensed by one program vs the other.

Dave

[Croc 0]

and one version, the ISP, is MUCH easier on the instructor!

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[funfall 0]

What are the differences between the 2 cards? I've only seen the one included with the SIM. Where can the other be found? Thanks!

[Couloirman 0]

slight hijack: what constitutes a "jump"? Do ground launches count? BASE jumps? Obviously these questions shouldn't be relevant for an A license jumper (theoretically ), but I personally would like to get my D license some day, and am curious as to whether or not I can count my foot/ski launches, and BASE jumps in my log book towards a license. I assume not, but I have heard different things from different people. Thanks.

[pilotdave 0]

Find them both at http://www.uspa.org/USPAMembers/LicensesampRatings/Licenses/tabid/87/Default.aspx on the right side of the page. There's the ISP 4-page card and the old fashioned 2-page card.

Dave

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Funfall: Both cards were included with my SIM. One is the old style with the individual skills (2sides), the other is based on the AFF progression levels (4sides).

Couloirman: The SIM doesn't seem to specify, but does say that jumps to meet licence requirements must be logged and include (among other things) exit altitude and freefall time. That would indicate to me the others don't count. But I could be wrong (often am).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[labrys 0]

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The SIM doesn't seem to specify

Sure it does. Right in the beginning of the BSRs in the Applicability Section:

"2. A "skydive" is defined as the descent of a person to the surface from an aircraft in flight when he or she uses or intends to use a parachute during all or part of that descent."

Owned by Remi #?

[ozzy13 0]

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slight hijack: what constitutes a "jump"? Do ground launches count? BASE jumps? Obviously these questions shouldn't be relevant for an A license jumper (theoretically ), but I personally would like to get my D license some day, and am curious as to whether or not I can count my foot/ski launches, and BASE jumps in my log book towards a license. I assume not, but I have heard different things from different people. Thanks.

Base jumps don't count towards any skydiving license nor does ground launching of ANY kind! Balloons helicopters or any fix wing aircraft.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Thanks. I looked in "licences" and the glossary, but didn't check BSRs

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[voilsb 1]

I've heard from some people that (if you do static line progression) static line jumps don't count toward license requirements, either. I've also heard that they do. It doesn't apply to me, but it did make me curious. Anyone know the bottom line?

Brian

[labrys 0]

According to the definition given in the SIM, a static line jump is a skydive. The current license requirement is the completion of 25 skydives. I personally don't see any gray area there. I've heard people argue that tandems don't count either, but using the given definition, they do.

I was curious enough to ask my RD and was assured that my understanding was correct.

Owned by Remi #?

[ozzy13 0]

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I've heard from some people that (if you do static line progression) static line jumps don't count toward license requirements, either. I've also heard that they do. It doesn't apply to me, but it did make me curious. Anyone know the bottom line?

Static line jumps do count. Not sure why they would tell you differently. Tandems count also.

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[Gato 0]

They probably say that because there are no TLOs specifically associated with SL or Tandem jumps, as per se.

T.I.N.S.

[ozzy13 0]

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They probably say that because there are no TLOs specifically associated with SL or Tandem jumps, as per se.

Well I'm not sure why you would say that either. After the first tandem I had to pull at pre set Alt and the next one turns were a objective. Those are TLO's As far as SL I'm not familiar with the program. I will say there has to be TLO's as far as the delay and under canopy.

What ever progression you do there are TLO's

Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!

[pilotdave 0]

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The SIM doesn't seem to specify

Sure it does. Right in the beginning of the BSRs in the Applicability Section:

"2. A "skydive" is defined as the descent of a person to the surface from an aircraft in flight when he or she uses or intends to use a parachute during all or part of that descent."

If you want to get technical, the license requirements section of the SIM doesn't use the word "skydives", but rather "jumps." I'm sure there's a lawyer out there that'll argue a broader definition of that word. But clearly base jumps and ground launches don't count.

Dave

[Gato 0]

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What ever progression you do there are TLO's

Yes, I agree with you - and being a person who DID go through the SL progression, I can tell you that you I didn't even get the yellow card until after my first clear & pull jump. So technically, there were no TLO's until that jump and after.

I think I'll shut the hell up for a while.

T.I.N.S.

[voilsb 1]

Found it. I heard it from reading Wendy Faulkner's Log, where it says "For those non-static liners out there, the reason these jumped are lettered, not numbered, is because static line jumps don't count towards licenses, only freefall ones."

Brian

[pilotdave 0]

In 1993 they may not have counted. There used to be a freefall requirement, but now all jumps count toward the A-license.

Dave

[voilsb 1]

Cool enough. I was asked where I got that idea, so I found it, though. I wonder if there are other people who learned back then, who never learned that they now count?

Of course, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. Because even if you had 75 static line jumps (really slow learner) that didn't used to count, that was 15 years ago. By now those 75 jumps probably don't make much of a difference, since you'd probably have over 1,000 jumps in those 15 years. And seriously, who cares about the difference between 1,037 jumps versus 1,112 jumps?

Brian

[billvon 2,400]

>In 1993 they may not have counted.

They counted in 1991 when I started.

[AllisonH 0]

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What ever progression you do there are TLO's

Yes, I agree with you - and being a person who DID go through the SL progression, I can tell you that you I didn't even get the yellow card until after my first clear & pull jump. So technically, there were no TLO's until that jump and after.

I think I'll shut the hell up for a while.

The TLO's of the static line jumps include things like safe, stable exits, successful practice pulls on the later ones, and learning to fly a safe and predictable landing pattern.

Many DZ's don't give progression cards to students (AFF or SL or IAD) until they've done several jumps. (I'm not trying to start an argument about whether this is the "right" thing to do - just putting it out there). I often get AFF students on jump 3 or 4 who haven't had a card started yet, and I don't think I was given one until I got to 15 or 30 sec delays as a SL student. It varies a lot by DZ and by instructor.

[spencer 0]

I thought after 7 aff levels a hop and pop, 10 consoles, you have showed who ever it is, that you can take care of yourself on a skydive, Yes still a beginer but , you wouldnt be let loose to do concoles if the instructor thought you werent ready.

[peek 20]

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Dropzones get to decide which to use, even though both are equally valid. One version is much easier on the students (and their wallets) than the other. And (in my limited experience) there's a huge difference in the skill level and knowledge of students that get licensed by one program vs the other.

I would be interested in which is which, in your opinion. And are you talking about the training method or ISP versus non-ISP? And which do you think is cheaper for the student.

[pilotdave 0]

Sorry, talking old AFF program vs ISP. ISP is definitely more expensive, but (in my limited experience) seems to produce more knowledgeable and higher skilled A-license recipients. They just have had more instruction. I think the ISP also helps keep them on track... there's no big "graduation" after 7 jumps where the students kind of get left on their own to figure out how to finish. It's all laid out very clearly. But there's no reason why that can't be done for the older AFF program too.

Dave