I'm after a new canopy.... suggestions please

[shropshire 0]

Hi All, I realise that you dont know my canopy skills etc.. but I could use some help please.

I current jump an old Sabre 1 @150, which I'd like to replace (money making holes in my pocket, so I'd like a new canopy). I'm happy with the size and do not feel the need to Downsize.

I've had a quick shot of a mates Pilot (1 jump) and felt that it was more responsive and certainly glided better than my Sabre (probably getting porus and tired). I'm going to Emp next week and will be demoing the Pilot for a day or so (I'd also like to demo the Sabre 2 but it's already been booked out - I still hope to get a go on it tho')..

Anyway,
what difference do you think that I'll notice between these canopies?
Are there any other canopies at that performance level that you'd recommend that I try?

Thanks All...

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TheCaptain 2]

Before buying any new canopy you should demo as many different ones in the same class. I would also add to your list the Safire 2. I know PD has a really great demo program, I am not sure about the other manufactors. Personally, I have never wanted to pay that much for a canopy so I look for a good deal on a slightly used one (100-300 jumps)
Kirk
PS demo, demo, demo

[shropshire 0]

Cheers mate. I intend to demo as many as I can. At the moment, I'm planning to buy new because I'll probably keep it for a long time (no plans to downsize).

Thanks again.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[isaiah85 0]

This depends on what you're looking for in a canopy. Both canopies are a good choice depending on what you're after. Only you’re going to know what you like. When helping someone choose a canopy, some of the questions I ask are; what kind of skydiving do you do? (Big ways, freefly, 4 way, wing suit, ect...). What is most important about your canopy (opening, landing, how it feels up high)? If you had to pick one thing you could have great openings and so, so landings or so, so openings and great landings, what would you choose?

There are certain characteristics people look for in a canopy, not to generalize here, these are two extremes. Some people are all about freefall and hate the canopy ride, the canopy is only there so they can go back up and freefall again. "Generally", this type of person looks for a canopy with hassle free openings, they like them quick but not hard. They also want a canopy that glides well from a long spot with out a lot of work. Because they could do without the canopy ride, they haven't worked too much on landing the canopy, so they want something easy to land and forgiving of mistakes.

On the other extreme you have people who are all about the canopy ride, freefall is just wasted canopy time. These people aren’t as picky about the opening, if they are on a long spot they’ll use their “superior” skills to make it home, they want the canopy to dive hard, build up a lot of speed and swoop far, that’s what skydiving is all about for these people.

Most people fall somewhere in the middle, but if you lean towards the “I’m only about freefall the Pilot, Silhouette, Stiletto (depending on experiance) might be good choice. If you lean towards the “I’m all about the canopy ride” the Safire2, Sabre2 would be a better choice. Not that everyone who is all about freefall wouldn’t like the more “ground hungry” swooping style canopies, or the other way around, but this is not very common. I am a little bias, but I’d rather have you jumping another manufactures product and be happy, then jumping one of ours and hate it.

I hope you find what you’re looking for and I hope you’re happy with whatever you decide on, but for sure demo some canopies so you can find what you like best.

Isaiah

[shropshire 0]

Cheers Isaiah, that was a fantatic response.

A little more about me .... I quess that I'm 'more' about the canopy ride (I fly paragliders and recent started Speed Riding) byt still love my freefall and hope to start Wingsuit this year (fingers crossed).

I would like to move towards a HP landing but have little interest in extreme swooping. I'd like my canopy to carry a lot of energy (like my PH & SG wings) so that I can 'wang it around' in the air (initially).

I find the front riser pressure of my Sabre 1 quite high, so can not hold on for >270 degrees (or so). I'd like it a bit lighter (I think).

Thanks again,
Tony

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[dragon2 0]

For wingsuit you want a docile/moderately docile canopy. Ie, one without much "wang". Nice wingsuit canopies include spectre/triathlon but also sabre 1&2/safire 1&2/pilot, so if you buy one of these (at a reasonable wingload) you're good to go for wingsuiting in that department.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[moto89 0]

Have you considered a Big Air Sportz Lotus? I recently bought on and really, really enjoy mine. It flies similarly to a comparably sized Sabre 2 I think, but it is airlocked unlike that Pilot/Sabre 2/Safire 2. They are a bit more expensive than the others new, but I've seen them go cheaper used than their competitors because it doesn't have the PD/Aerodyne name on it. It's a great canopy and I'd say it performs every bit as well as the other canopies in this range (better maybe?), and Brian Germain definitely knows his stuff when it comes to designing a parachute.

Less talking, more flying.

[shropshire 0]

Thanks... So it looks like I'm on the right sort of lines with the 2 canopies that I'm demo'ing next week.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,400]

I'd also consider a Safire2 149. Similar in many respects to the Pilot and Sabre2 lines.

[bigway 4]

LAst week i was told a safire 2 is a waiting time of 24 weeks. Fantastic canopy though.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[shropshire 0]

Thanks everyone. I'll add the Safire 2 to my list too.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TrickyDicky 0]

I demoed a pilot and sabre 2 150 before I bought my pilot 150. I found the pilot had softer openings, a longer glide and slightly more responsive. (plus its slightly cheaper).

I just recently jumped a sabre 2 135 for 25 or so jumps, and have to say I really liked it, getting better openings than I did on the sabre2 150. but Im yet to try an equivalent pilot.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[iambeav2 0]

I'm thinking the sub-100 velo's would be good for you, or maybe a JVX...

I heard the openings are real nice and great for long spots. Also a very beginner to intermediate canopy, am I right guys?

(Please please please...can you smell that? Yeah, it's sarcasm.)

...it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you!

[kingbunky 3]

i'll add a second vote for a lotus. i fly a 170 @ 1.3:1 and it's a very nice handling canopy. i think there is still a 25% discount if you take brian's canopy course which i would also recommend.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[bwilling 0]

Quote

I just recently jumped a sabre 2 135 for 25 or so jumps, and have to say I really liked it, getting better openings than I did on the sabre2 150.

I've demoed all three canopies (currently have the Safire 2 in my rig), and will have a favorite over all when it's all said and done. I thought this post reiterated something I was thinking, that the OP was going jump the Pilot for a 'day'.

That's likely not very many jumps, and a pretty small sample size for something like opening performance especially. We get demo's here in the states for 2 weekends, and most of the manufacturers will extend the demo period if weather cuts your time with the canopy short.

I personally like to make at least a dozen or more jumps on a demo before I have to send it back... now if I could just figure out how to test them all in similar wind conditions, preferably low wind conditions. Not likely in Texas this time of year!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[shropshire 0]

Quote

I'm thinking the sub-100 velo's would be good for you, or maybe a JVX...

I heard the openings are real nice and great for long spots. Also a very beginner to intermediate canopy, am I right guys?

(Please please please...can you smell that? Yeah, it's sarcasm.)

Hey, have you been talking to Andy Copland? Yeap, you could be a good idea... I love hospital food#

Cheers Mate.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

Thanks for the reply. You're quite right a day isn't very long (I'll probably have 2 any way) but I'll be in Spain, so could get 5 in a day comfortably.

Also, I didn't know (untill had received a great PM) that people would lend me a demo for longer (I now know that the main manufactures have some relly great people working for them - thanks chaps).

The day's demo would likely give me a good indication that I'm on the right track and then I can go for a longer demo.

Thanks everyone for some fantastic advice and support.

All the very best,
Tony

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,400]

Pilot, Sabre2 and Safire2 are all quite similar at that size/loading. Try all three!

[shropshire 0]

Will do Bill - many thanks

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

So, here's how my demo weekend went...

Wet weekend in Emp' meant that I only made 5 jumps.... all on the Sabre 2 150.... Loved that canopy. I pulled higher than normal, so that I could play (Find Stall point, front riser turns and dives and rear riser flares (up high) - I did 1 straight in, accelerated landing (Slowed on breaks and let it dive - not dramatic but felt predicatable) for a good standup landing. Actually, I stood up all of my landings bar one where I slipped onto my knees.

I still plan on asking for a Pilot 150 to test before I make a decision.

Thanks everyone (especially Aerodyne and Karnage) for all of you help and service.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[beatcreation 0]

Just my 2 cents but I preferred the pilot and I currently own a 168. I love the way it opens, the glide is very nice, I really like the recovery. Yes it probably wont swoop like most canopies but the very quick recovery makes it much more forgiving in my opinion. It just seems much more responsive to all inputs. Flare is alot different than the sabre 2 though. The landings are great but took a little while to get used to after jumping sabre 2's.

[pilot-one 0]

I prefer the Pilot by far over the Sabre 2. I jump the Pilot 168 right now. The Pilot opens softer, opens on heading more often, opens without endcell closure and is quite a bit more fun to fly.
The only other canopy I would buy would be another Pilot. In fact I did. I have 2. 1 for each rig.

[shropshire 0]

Quote

i'll add a second vote for a lotus. i fly a 170 @ 1.3:1 and it's a very nice handling canopy. i think there is still a 25% discount if you take brian's canopy course which i would also recommend.

Thanks - agter just flying a Jedi... the Lotus is not high on my list.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[woodpecker 0]

I knew you'd love it.

SONIC WOODY #146

There is a fine line between cockiness and confidence -- which side of the line are you on?

[Joellercoaster 6]

Jedei - old tech, pretty damn variable (according to the only multiple-Jedei owner I know). Lotus - new tech.

FWIW I've just ordered my third Pilot and love it. The missus has a love for her Sabre2s that is almost fetishistic in her intensity. She lands straight in, I like a little swoop. The message? Individual taste is everything, conventional wisdom not always so much. Demo (not just 'cause it's fun)

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?