Newbie 0 #1 January 29, 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_enl_1138567284/img/1.jpg Can anyone actually tell? "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duckwater 0 #2 January 29, 2006 They are obviously close in every respect except vertical separation. The similar aspects of both aircraft lend to that theory. Vertical separation is hard to tell, especially with telephoto lenses. They could be within 2,000' vertically and now as close as 1,000' due to RVSM that was implimented Jan 20. RVSM reduces the vertical separation between flight level (FL) 290–410 from 2000 ft to 1000 ft and makes six additional FL’s available for operation. http://www.faa.gov/ats/ato/rvsm1.htm The lower a/c is a DHL Airbus A300B4-203 freighter and the higher a/c is a Japan Air Lines Boeing 777-346ER. The 777 is a bit bigger but 2,000' to 1,000' of vertical separation is close no matter what your perspective. The fact that Airbus flies the A300 with that livery in Europe, this is probably not in the US. RVSM in Europe went into effect in 2002. -- -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newbie 0 #3 January 29, 2006 Hi and thanks. Yeah this happened over London today i believe, and there was contention about just how close the planes actually were (it was being touted as a near miss by the photographer) "Skydiving is a door" Happythoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #4 January 29, 2006 QuoteVertical separation is hard to tell, especially with telephoto lenses. They could be within 2,000' vertically and now as close as 1,000' due to RVSM that was implimented Jan 20. I don't know...even with a telephoto lens, if this shot was not doctored, 2000' separation would show better focus on one or the other, I would think~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duckwater 0 #5 January 30, 2006 http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2577187/ Being discussed in depth on airliners.net if they had 1,000' vertical, they are in compliance. Interestingly, a DHL 757 and a Russian TU-154 had a mid-air over Germany in 2002. http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news053.htm It was controller error, had the crew followed their TCAS resolution advisories (RA) and ignored the controller, this would have been averted. -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,075 #6 January 30, 2006 Near miss or a near hit? Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fenceline 0 #7 January 30, 2006 Pfft....Inch as good as a mile... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disodium 0 #8 January 30, 2006 pfft if no one scraped paint it was a good day. That being said it was probally a tower flower's fault Radar for the win Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 January 30, 2006 Quoteeven with a telephoto lens, if this shot was not doctored, 2000' separation would show better focus on one or the other, I would think Not necessarily. If the shot was taken from the ground, and the lens was a really good one (L glass, for example), the aperature and shutter speed, and if focus was set out to infinity, it is really, really hard to diferentiate focal points in moving objects at a distance. Think of it in terms of shooting stars. We all know there are millions of miles separating them from each other, but only in rare instances are we able to see some slight Depth of Field (which is what you're talking about) between stars. Dunno if this was doctored, but it doesn't look like it at first glance. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psipike02 0 #10 January 30, 2006 I think they'd have to be kind of far apart. The wake vortex coming off of that 777 would be massive off of both engines. The wake behind usually ends up flowing down behind the flight path of the airline and can be as long as 300 yards or more long depending on wind, type of plane and air density/pressure. If that DHL were flying that close underneath the heavy, it would be directly in the wake of it and that basically means that it has the possibility of ripping a piece of that plane apart....wake vorticies are not cool and have been known to cause a few crashes..... We learn all this shit in my aerospace classes....its pretty cool actually...Puttin' some stank on it. ----Hellfish #707---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #11 January 30, 2006 not very close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #12 January 30, 2006 QuoteWe learn all this shit in my aerospace classes....its pretty cool actually... Where are you taking classes? I just finished with Aerodynamics...b*tch of a class, but very informative. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #13 January 30, 2006 Quotehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_enl_1138567284/img/1.jpg Can anyone actually tell? It's the same effect as watching footage of someone in free fall shot from a helicopter. The objects on the ground look almost as big as the jumper does. Watching the footage, you're certain they're a split second from bouncing, even though they're half a mile above the ground. I'd chalk it up to long focal length.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoBob 0 #14 January 30, 2006 A real controller could have got another one in there. They're wasting airspace dammit."I'm not a gynecologist but I will take a look at it" RB #1295, Smokey Sister #1, HellFish #658, Dirty Sanchez #194, Muff Brothers #3834, POPS #9614, Orfun Foster-Parent?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
easyglider 0 #15 January 31, 2006 There is a series of 6 pictures of the event here. http://www.sky.com/skynews/picture_gallery/picture_gallery/0,,70141-1210748-1,00.html In the first pic it looks like they are at the exact same altitude, although they look further apart as you go through them all. Nevertheless, it must have been scary to witness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #16 January 31, 2006 How close? okay, I have several formulae for this, lemme run it through and do the data analysis...(ok, add, carry the one, multiply) ah.. yes.. I've got it: Too Close."The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airfury17 0 #17 January 31, 2006 well....I think DHL wants JAL's Verticle Stabalizer.... Ya there gunna screw Most Def Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psipike02 0 #18 January 31, 2006 QuoteWhere are you taking classes? I just finished with Aerodynamics...b*tch of a class, but very informative. Crazy The University of Michigan. Yeah I had that class last semester, that final was murder.....but an enjoyable classPuttin' some stank on it. ----Hellfish #707---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
