bigway 4 #1 August 17, 2007 I keep seeing something in the classifieds that really bugs me. For example someone right now is asking $400 USD for a wings certificate that they won. It entitles the bearer to 50% off the MSRP price directly through Skydive Wings and options to the container are full retail price. Now a Articulated wings is $1650 USD as the MSRP plus options. So 50% of this $825USD. So you can buy a wings container for $850USD plus full price options. ..but you have to pay this person $400USD to buy the certificate off them. So the total is $1250USD for an articulated wings container plus options at full price. Now look at square 1 prices and many other distributors price, even if the rice is not advertised from distributors they will usually match square 1's price.. I know i would as you have to to survive. Their price for an articulate wings container is $1185USD plus options on top of that. So someone trying to get $400 usd off a 50% wings gift certificate.... if you were to buy such a certificate of someone for this price of $400 you are not getting 50% off a wings certificate at all, you are actually paying $65 USD more than you would be paying for it without a gift gertificate. Now i have shown the maths here because it really bugs me people trying to sell these certificates when the certificate was either won or given to them in a raffle etc.... The certificate is a great thing to have! It is a big discount on what i belive to be one of the best containers on the market and they provide excellent customer service to boot. They have given this certificate to someone and they do give alot of these away and that is a great thing from wings for them and the lucky person who gets one... However where do people get the nerve to try and sell these things if they dont want to use it.... why not give it away to someone who could use it? Why not sell it for $100 even, what is up with people being so greedy and trying to sell them for $400usd? I just hope that if someone is trying to buy a container looks into the prices a bit more before thinking of going ahead and buying a certificate. I also thing Wings should make these certificates illegal to sell and should be for the recipent only. Whoever goes and pays for $400 for a voucher for 50% off a wings container is actually getting ripped off as this example is not going to give the buyer 50% off, it is actually going to give them a certificate for a container that will end up costing them an extra $65USD. Has anyone else noticed this? Does this bother anyone else people selling things at such prices that leave unlucky skydivers, usually students buying their first kit actually out of pocket and getting ripped off from other skydivers? If you got a certificate like this for free then that would be a wonderful thing and you should feel very lucky to have one but if you are trying to sell it polease make sure you tell the person that it will not actually be 50% off.... in some cases like this one i saw today it means you actually pay more for the container. venting over. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #2 August 17, 2007 As far as I am concerned it is all about "caveat emptor" and when/if the manufacturers allow transfer of the certificates, which is certainly their call. Stupidity is allowed in the marketplace. Heck, most of the population of the world would say that anyone who skydives is exactly that. I'd hate to be prevented from making that "stupid" decision on my own. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #3 August 17, 2007 Yeah, i just think people should know that purchasing a gift certificate is not as good as it sounds. A 'gift' certificate is a great thing to receive.. buying a 'gift' certificate is not. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micduran 0 #4 August 17, 2007 I have helped at a boogie to get manufacturer's to donate gift certificates for our raffle. Several of them are now making them non-transferable. That seems only fair to me. I don't think it is right for people to "profit" from a donation or gift.Be patient with the faults of others; they have to be patient with yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #5 August 17, 2007 Neither do I.. I have had about 10 of these certs from wings before for prizes to give away over the years at nationals and boogies and it is so good to see the people who get these then come up and be so grateful once they have their new container at such a good price. Profiting from the good will of the manufacturers is not right. They are trying to give these winners a break and then these winners are ripping off other customers. If they want to sell them, so be it, just make the customer aware that it will either cost more or they are only going to save a hundred or 2 dollars. I have seen people pay a couple of hundred for 35% off canopies when most dealer will give you 20% off the MSRP just to make the sale. I dont know, just leaves a bad taste in my mouth the thought of people getting suckered into something. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #6 August 17, 2007 I've previously bought and used one of these vouchers. I paid the guy I think $100 for it. I saved a load of money. He made some money. Wings got a new customer and presumably made some profit. Everyone it would appear was happy. It's a commodity with intrinsic value like any other; I don't really think it matters in absolute terms how the vendor came by the commodity, (so long as he has good title of course). It would be nice if people gave these things away to the deserving, but if he'd won say a Protrack in the boogie raffle instead of a voucher I don't think the clamour to see him give it away rather than sell it would be quite so loud. If someone's gonna pay over the odds for it that's their stoopid fault... still it's not nice to see skydiver "ripped off" by a fellow jumper, if indeed its actually fair to describe it as such. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #7 August 17, 2007 if indeed its actually fair to describe it as such. if you were a newbie and you paid 400 cause you did not know any better then you would feel ripped off..... Maybe it is more 'being led astray' or maybe the seller does not know any better. $100 is a great sale for one of these, $400 though is just taking the piss. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 August 17, 2007 If I got such a certificate I'd probably just donate it to a student that needed it.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #9 August 17, 2007 QuoteI don't think it is right for people to "profit" from a donation or gift. Agreed. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #10 August 17, 2007 Just found out the person has sold it.I feel sorry for some poor person who did not knoiw better. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremy_o 0 #11 August 17, 2007 haha, I feel sorry too. Hopefully they see this thread, or maybe they won't If I won one of those certificates I would have a second container...after I saved up to buy a new main! http://planetskydive.net/ - An online aggregation of skydiver's blogs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #12 August 17, 2007 Quoteif you were a newbie and you paid 400 cause you did not know any better then you would feel ripped off..... Agreed. Whilst at the end of the day it's up to the buyer if they blow their money, it would still be nice to see at least a degree of camaraderie amongst us jumpers. I bought mine a few years back but I remember doing the maths against the market, Square1 included, and ensuring I really was going to be saving money by buying it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #13 August 17, 2007 Hi bigway, A number of years ago I helped a jumper from an Eastern European country with a gift cert. His cert. was only for the base price of the gear; all extra 'goodies' were at full retail. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #14 August 17, 2007 Hey thats is exactly what this 400 dollar one was. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #15 August 18, 2007 I agree. That's always bugged me. Its usually the newbies who don't do the math and think they are getting a great deal who get suckered. We like to think skydivers all follow a certain "code" and don't take advantage of other skydivers, but that just isn't always the case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
docdialtone 0 #16 August 18, 2007 I bought and used on of these this year, I paid a hundred bucks for it but it saved me $825 off of the articulated harness. I think I made a good deal. Now if I can just get canopies and a AAD I'll put it in the air! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #17 August 18, 2007 Glad you brought this up. Folks need to know that most dealers in the US sell containers at 20 to 25% off MSRP, so a 50% is only worth about 25% off. When we do the auction at SkyFest I always let people know what its "actual" value is before the bidding starts. Outside of the US, its a whole other story. If I am not mistken the dealers there do not discount the same way, so a "foreign" purchase of a certificate may not be so bad of a deal. my .02$ worth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #18 August 19, 2007 Actually mate it only saved you $300 of an articulate harness. Square 1 and many other dealers sell them for around 20%-25% off the price that wings sell them for. You saved $825 from the FULL MSRP price that not many people sell them for. Your post is exactly what i mean by newbies thinking they are getting a better deal than they are and your post is the perfect example of what i am trying to explain. You still saved some money just not as much as you were lead to believe. Also if you bought off a dealer they may have also given you discounts on options as well so maybe you did not even save $300 odd pounds considering you bought the certificate for $100 For anyone that pays for one of these certificates if they pay $100 i think that is the max anyone should buy it for and the max anyone should try to sell it for as $100 is only buying the seller a few slots on a load. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #19 August 19, 2007 Just to let anybody know that this thread was not directed at anybody selling a certificate is about people knowing the true value of these certificates and really a 'buyer beware' thread. Sorry to the person i have offended by pointing out her advert, this person has since been communicating with me and i just want to say publicly that she also was not aware of the prices from certain dealers to make her certificate not worth $800. Sorry. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #20 August 19, 2007 not directed at any person in particular WINGS ROCK!! I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #21 August 19, 2007 yes they do! love my wings .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #22 August 19, 2007 QuoteGlad you brought this up. Folks need to know that most dealers in the US sell containers at 20 to 25% off MSRP, so a 50% is only worth about 25% off. When we do the auction at SkyFest I always let people know what its "actual" value is before the bidding starts. Outside of the US, its a whole other story. If I am not mistken the dealers there do not discount the same way, so a "foreign" purchase of a certificate may not be so bad of a deal. my .02$ worth Outside the US you are right, most dealers do not discount much if anything at all. I know of some that give 10% off everything if you buy a complete kit. As far as I know my gear store is the only one that matches US dealers. I do this because if i did not everyone is forced to buy from the US thus i would go broke. Once again, I am sorry to the person i have offended. This was not directed at your advert, it was just that your advert was the last one i could take seeing before i felt like someone should say something to maybe help others make a decision before they decide to pay so much money for one. And i think it is very fair i have bought this up for others to have the knowledge who dont already have. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seal_S49 0 #23 August 19, 2007 Quote venting over. or is it? Quote not as good as it sounds Quote ripping off other customers Quote just taking the piss Quote some poor person who did not knoiw better Quote newbies thinking they are getting a better deal Quote 'buyer beware' Quote i felt like someone should say something Sorry, I couldn't help it. You've more than justified your venting and I hope that buyers are reading this. It's difficult enough to get into this sport even without paying too much for gear. Newbies beware! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drunkenmunkey 0 #24 August 20, 2007 I was given a Mirage 35% off from a guy who i didnt know particularly well. he won it but had no intention of buying a new mirage so he gave it me. i plan on giving him a couple of tickets when i do order a container. I just thought it would be good to cite a good example here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #25 August 20, 2007 Thats awesome man... I am a sub dealer for Mirage and i dont even get 35% off. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
