Stiletto Design

[jee 0]

Does anybody know if the design of the PD Stiletto has changed at all since it's introduction into the market. Or is it the same canopy now as it was then. And are there any idiosyncrasies one should be aware of?
I appreciate any advice.

Please use title case (not upper case) in the subject line. Thanks - slotperfect

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

I've heard it rumored that the design of the Stilletto has changed since it was first introduced... OBTW... I think that was more then 10 years ago (1993 is when it was introduced, if I'm not mistaken).

Anyway, I've heard rumors about things like line trim, slider size and slight modificaitons to the airfoil shape (speculation... intentional tweaks or minor changes due to changes in maufacturing ??... who knows).

Mabye someone with more knowlege will be along with facts.

Mabye you could call PD and see if they'd fess-up?

... ask to talk to that Bill Coe or John LeBlanc guy.

[klingeme 0]

When I bought my Stilletto 120 (serial number 13) several years ago, my rigger said I got one of the "good ones" before they had "detuned" it. I don't know if there is any truth behind that, but that's my story and Im sticking to it.

[klingeme 0]

However, since then I have learned that the only changes to the Stiletto that have been made over the years never really affected the performance of the canopy.

Mark Klingelhoefer

[Atom 0]

Hei.

J know that PD has "modified " the Stiletto.
Scott Miller has told a frend of mine at a advansed canapy-course,that PD modiit in 97.
They made it easier to flatern out on landing.
J gor 2 Stilettos,a 94yer 135 and a 95yer 150..and J LOVE THEM..

[Spizzzarko 0]

I'm sure PD does make small changes to their trim over time. The stilletto is an amazing canopy and a lot of people overlook it saying that it is old. I have seen people do some amazing things on stillettos with my own eyes. In this day and age I think people are to set on getting to a velocity or similar canopy for the wrong reasons and overlook the stilletto.

I do know that the velo's manufactured today open signifigantly better than the velo's made a couple of years back. The velos made a couple of years back open better than the original velo's back when they first came out.

That is all.

[isaiah85 0]

This subject comes up quite a bit, I asked John Leblanc about it, here is his reply.



"We introduced the Stiletto in three sizes in July of 1992. Since then, the following changes have been made:

In 1994 we made a change to the canopy logo panels to make them easier to produce.
In March 1999, we added spanwise reinforcing tapes on the 120 and 135 sizes. These tapes were already on the larger sizes for extra durability, and we just added them on two smaller sizes.
In June of 1999 we created the new style warning labels that have the skill levels with varying wing loading maximums for each category, with a far higher maximum wing loadings than the original 1.3 lbs/sq.ft.


As you can see, the changes made don't affect the performance. The airfoil and trim changes that people believe occurred on the Stiletto have never occurred, and there have been no changes made in any way to "detune" the canopy. People's perceptions have changed over time, because our sport has changed so much.

As the designer of the Stiletto, I can emphatically state that we are still using the same line lengths and cutting the exact original part shapes with our laser cutting machinery that we used in 1992 for the first Stiletto."

[jee 0]

WOW....great information from all. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

As the designer of the Stiletto, I can emphatically state that we are still using the same line lengths and cutting the exact original part shapes with our laser cutting machinery that we used in 1992 for the first Stiletto."

Have the factory reccomendations for previous canopy experience and overall jump numbers changed for the Stiletto since 1992?

Do you happen to know what they were then, and what they are now?

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Quote

Quote

As the designer of the Stiletto, I can emphatically state that we are still using the same line lengths and cutting the exact original part shapes with our laser cutting machinery that we used in 1992 for the first Stiletto."

Have the factory reccomendations for previous canopy experience and overall jump numbers changed for the Stiletto since 1992?

Do you happen to know what they were then, and what they are now?

dave, my 2 cents...

Not factory recomendations... but I remember the day when if you'd walk into a gear store wanting to buy (or demo) a Stiletto and you didn't have several hundred, best approaching a thousand jumps, you'd be told, "Hell NO! I ain't gonna sell you (or letting you jump) that!" Now a days, I see kids with less then 200 jumps on Stilettos and no one bats and eye... times change.

[masterrigger1 2]

Isaiah,
When are you guys going to start manufacturing Technora lines for the Stiletto?(and other canopies)

We have been installing them with great success here.


I can honestly tell you that the people, that have had the 650lb Technora installed, will never go back to Spectra.

It is a great canopy, so why do you guys not try to make it all that it can be?

BS,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[jee 0]

they used to say 500 then. now they really don't say. they are sending me a 190 demo in a few weeks and i have about 250 jumps. My canopy now is a safire 1 189 loaded at 1.2 and i have several jumps on a firebolt 182. however they insisted on sending me a sabre 2 in the same size first. i know skydive chicago used the bigger stiletto's for students with as little as 20 jumps. (yes, 20) whether they still do now or not i don't know. i'm sure it all depends on the specific canopy pilot.

[Cloudi 0]

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i'm sure it all depends on the specific canopy pilot.

Not all. Individual "skills" are subjective (we all think we're better than we really are), but quality instruction has a huge influence on pilot readiness.

I prefer the combination of 3 (instruction, experience, skill--in that order), but to each their own.

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[jee 0]

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i'm sure it all depends on the specific canopy pilot.

Not all. Individual "skills" are subjective (we all think we're better than we really are), but quality instruction has a huge influence on pilot readiness.

I prefer the combination of 3 (instruction, experience, skill--in that order), but to each their own.

Well said and I agree.

[DougH 270]

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i know skydive chicago used the bigger stiletto's for students with as little as 20 jumps. (yes, 20) whether they still do now or not i don't know. i'm sure it all depends on the specific canopy pilot.

You saw this, or do you just "know it"? I wouldn't be suprised if a student got put out on a saber 2, but unless it was on video I highly doubt they would use a stiletto. But it wouldn't be the first time I am wrong.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[jee 0]

I did not 'see' it. however i came across a reading or two somewhere where roger nelson was quoted as to why he thought the stiletto was a good student canopy and why he used it. i'll find it and post it back here soon.

[skybytch 259]

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Do you happen to know what they were then, and what they are now?

Dunno about 1992, but back in 1996 a buyer had to have "600 jumps" and sign a waiver (iirc it was 2 different waivers for the sub-100 sizes).

[jee 0]

skybytch,

don't you have anything else to do other than make posts on dz.com? how many posts do you make that are NOT derogatory? it's like you get off being a cop or something by lessening the merit of the post. do you have some sort of badge?

and as per PD it was 500 jumps. not 600. i just talked to them the other day about it.

[davelepka 4]

Back off her dude, she was just answering the question that I potsed to the PD guy. A question that I fully knew the answer to when I posted it.

500, 600, even 400, it could be any od those, and the onlt thing they have in common is that they are all more jumps then you have.

We already know that the canopy itself it unchanged since 1992. What is it about you that is different from jumpers in 1992?

Regardless of what you may think, the answer is nothing. Use great care in your decision making regarding canopy selection. Open canopies have been involved in the majority of deaths and injuries in skydiving for many years now. It's not a game.

[DougH 270]

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skybytch,

don't you have anything else to do other than make posts on dz.com? how many posts do you make that are NOT derogatory? it's like you get off being a cop or something by lessening the merit of the post. do you have some sort of badge?

and as per PD it was 500 jumps. not 600. i just talked to them the other day about it.

The only post in this thread that is derogatory is yours. You are coming across like a spoiled brat.

The poster you are insulting has helped tons of people across the sport. If you don't like what she has to say, which was only sharing Pd's position in the 90's, too fucking bad. Put on your big boy undies and deal with it.

I really don't care what canopy you fly or fly into the ground. I am flying an elliptical myself for my own reasons. But if some one has concerns about it I take the time to listen to their opinion in a respectful manner!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[jee 0]

you have no idea what i am talking about DougH. and i really don't appreciate the use of foul language. futhermore, it jeoprodizes your credibilty. if i come across as a spoiled brat so be it. however i am far from that description.

i have realized that dropzone forums are not for me. i apologize if i have offended anybody. especially you lisa briggs.

[diablopilot 2]

Watch your mouth, you haven't got the time or experience to know that she was selling gear and teaching people to skydive long before you thought about jumping.

She's not being derogatory, she's pointing out that you STILL don't have the amount of experience to jump a Stiletto. She and many of us have seen what happens when a low time jumper gets a canopy like a Stiletto, and we don't want to see it again.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Spizzzarko 0]

"Watch your mouth, you haven't got the time or experience to know that she was selling gear and teaching people to skydive long before you thought about jumping."


Kick his ass Seabass!!!

[Remster 24]

Quote

skybytch,

don't you have anything else to do other than make posts on dz.com? how many posts do you make that are NOT derogatory? it's like you get off being a cop or something by lessening the merit of the post. do you have some sort of badge?

and as per PD it was 500 jumps. not 600. i just talked to them the other day about it.

You're funny!



Remember, this isnt fark or the onion. Most of us who have been around a while actually know each other, and call each other friends. And we actually KNOW the creditials someone has.

Remster

[slotperfect 7]

One thing is for certain: if you post a request for advice here, you are going to get some that you didn't expect or perhaps don't even like. Some of it makes you downright uncomfortable or mad. The reality of it is that those bits of advice that raise your hackles are often exactly what you need to hear.

Lisa Briggs' reply to another poster in your thread was factual, and framed by a strong desire not to see yet another member of the skydiving community wreck themselves or worse because of making poor choices.

Lisa cares about the sport and those in it - people just like you and me. She has gone to great lengths to contribute to the sport through her extensive input to this online community, to include writing articles, long meaty posts and replies, and moderating this very forum before I was asked to take her place.

If you choose not to post anymore, so be it - this community dynamic is not for everyone. Most people who make those statements stick around and find a way to fit in here - my hope is that you can become one of those using lessons learned from this thread.

Arrive Safely

John