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Jumping out at 2k IS stupid, but that's just MY *opinion. Jumping out at such a low altitude doesn't seem very safe to me.:|

And yes, the fact that I've done two BASE jumps I'm sure many people think is stupid as well, but for some reason jumping out of a plane at 2k seems less on the safe side than BASE. I know, I'm a freak.:|



Perfectly safe - done it many, many, many, times without so much as a scratch as have thousands upon thousands of other skydivers. It certainly helps to look at your alitmeter, or perhaps even look out the door before you go......remember that basic stuff they taught you during your first day of training?






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Yeah the friday aad fire happened right above our tent. I heard canopies opening and looked up, saw a few open and then saw the jumper still in freefall. He was in a slow turn but stable. then he got really big, so I turned my back and was going to plug my ears. By the time my hands were to my ears I heard the reserve open. He would have hit less than a 100 or so feet away from us across the taxi way.
I haven't seen the skyvan vid yet but heard its good.

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Jumping out at 2k???? :S

That's freakin stupid.>:(



I don't think jumping at 2k is stupid, (as I'm sure has already been mentioned) 2k' is actually the minimum container opening altitude for C & D license holders. I think the fact that not one person looked at their altimeter prior to exit (or at least didn't question what their altimeter was reading), is kind of, well, dumbfounding.

(below isn't directed at you windcatcher)

This isn't going to be a popular statement, but I have to throw out a 'WTF?!' to the pilot! >:( Why, you ask? For drastically changing the flight plan, and not telling anybody (assuming he didn't tell jumpers in the front of the plane, and they failed to pass the word).

Yes, we are all ultimately responsible for our own actions, but that doesn't mean it's ok for others to deliberately put us into potentially dangerous situations where our lives depend on such decisions. Before I get flamed on this: I don't consider putting jumpers out at 2000' a dangerous situation. Telling jumpers you're putting them out at 6500', then putting them out at 2000' IS potentially dangerous.

Let me throw some more fuel onto this fire:

What would people be saying if this were a group of newbies that exited? No experience, no AAD's, canopies with a long snivel, and too excited about jumping a tailgate to think about looking down. You do the math on this very possible scenario...

Sorry, but I think both sides are equally to blame here. Like many others, I'm just shaking my head... [:/]

Jeff
Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

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Jumping out at 2k???? :S

That's freakin stupid.>:(



I don't think jumping at 2k is stupid, (as I'm sure has already been mentioned) 2k' is actually the minimum container opening altitude for C & D license holders.[:/]

Jeff




Oh, really, if you jump from 2k ft with velo, you are in 1k ft when you are open actually, and you think its not stupid....

in here 2k is minimum altitude when your canopy should actually fly (brakes open etc...)

shit thats scary, but hey, you have to look you altimeter and GROUND before jumpin...

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FastPete www.pete.fi email: [email protected]

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Oh, really, if you jump from 2k ft with velo, you are in 1k ft when you are open actually, and you think its not stupid....



No you are not. I've done Cessna hop n pops from 2k on a 90 loaded with weight. I was under a fully inflated main before 1500 feet every time.

Sub terminal opening won't take as much altitude.

Blues,
Ian
To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. ~ Lao-Tzu

It's all good, they're my brothers ~ Mariann Kramer

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Well one should choose the right tools for the job. Jumping at 2k maybe a faster openning 7 cell or old Sabre? or sitting abck down and waiting till the next load whe nthe weather is better.

But yeah not looking at the altimeter on you or your buddy prior to exit is pretty damn dumb.

Who ever is trying to blame the pilot needs to probably rethink that argument, he didn't force any one to jump and if jumpers fail to look at the altimeter they have how can one blame a pilot? The pilot should relay info, yes, but he is not required to be situationally aware for the jumpers too.
An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

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>but I have to throw out a 'WTF?!' to the pilot! Why, you ask? For
> drastically changing the flight plan, and not telling anybody
> (assuming he didn't tell jumpers in the front of the plane, and they
> failed to pass the word).

Per reports, jumpers in the front DID know the altitude. Skyvans do not have PA systems; all the pilot can do is ensure people near him know.

>What would people be saying if this were a group of newbies that
> exited? No experience . . .

You mean a first jump student? The instructor/DZO would carry much of the responsibility.

Or an AFF level 8 student? His instructor would carry some of the responsibility; they're supposed to be under supervision.

An A licensed jumper? His responsibility. That's why we HAVE licenses - to demonstrate that a jumper can safely skydive on his own, and decide independently what's too dangerous and what's not.

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Oh, really, if you jump from 2k ft with velo, you are in 1k ft when you are open actually, and you think its not stupid....



Yes, really... But, I think you're missing my point. I can add a few 'stupid ideas' too:

Knowingly jumping from 2k...
..with a tandem rig is stupid.
..and freeflying is stupid (right Stacy? ;)).
..knowing you trash packed your main is stupid.
..while doing a Mr. Bill is stupid.
..on gear you're unfamiliar with is stupid.

So what does any of this have to do with the situation being discussed? :S

I believe there's nothing inherently nothing wrong with an experienced skydiver exiting from 2k. Your choice of equipment and dive plan are what makes it stupid.

And for the record, I just looked up the BSR in the SIM. 2000' is container opening altitude.

Minimum container opening altitudes above the ground for skydivers are:

1. Tandem jumps--4,500 feet AGL
2. All students and A-license holders--3,000 feet AGL
3. B-license holders--2,500 feet AGL
4. C- and D-license holders--2,000 feet AGL

http://www.uspa.org/publications/SIM/2006SIM/section2.htm

Technically, hop n pop from an aircraft at 2000' is much safer than freefall to 2000', anyway. [:/]

Jeff
Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

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I guess it's time to slap Dave (streaker) around a bit!



Rightly so Mar. Didn't check the altimeter before leaving. Just went on green as breifed before loading. Just to recap what I posted in the incident forum:

1. Never leave the plane without checking your altimeter. (Totally my fault...stupid!)
2. The pilot may not always be 100% right. Take a good look before leaving. (I'm not blaming the pilot, just making a point).
3. We are all responsible for the safety of each other. (If someone on the load had yelled about low altitude the incident may have been prevented).

So everyone can keep on slappin' away, it's deserved. Just read the important points above and maybe we will prevent another incident report similar to this one.

Two of my good friends were seriously injured. How about some get well vibes???

Beautiful Landings!

Streaker
Have a yippee ki ya day!

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You mean a first jump student? The instructor/DZO would carry much of the responsibility.



No, someone who just got their A, and bought the cheapest used gear (without an AAD) they could find.

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An A licensed jumper? His responsibility. That's why we HAVE licenses - to demonstrate that a jumper can safely skydive on his own, and decide independently what's too dangerous and what's not.



I disagree. At 25 jumps, most jumpers don't even know what's dangerous, and they certainly don't know why things are dangerous. As a community, I think it's our responsibility to look out for one another, even if it isn't written in the SIM/IRM.

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That's why we HAVE licenses - to demonstrate that a jumper can safely skydive on his own



I've never heard of a person denied of their A license, because they were too stupid to skydive. I've even met a few skydivers that I swear suffer from mild retardation, but hold a D license.

Jeff
Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

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Two of my good friends were seriously injured. How about some get well vibes???



Glad you're ok, and hopefully your friends will have a speedy recovery.

Not to glorify the situation, but.... at least they have a better story to tell other than, 'I turned too low to the ground...'[:/] Instructors will be telling this story to their students for years to come.

Also, I just noticed you have 84 jumps. This is a perfect example of why we need to look out for each other. I'm just sorry we (as a community) let you down on this one.... [:/]

Jeff
Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

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I haven't seen the skyvan vid yet but heard its good.



yeah its pretty damned good... all 6 videos on that load lol. theres like 3 outside videos and 3 inside videos.

I was in the 9way that got out before the raft.

EDIT I just realized this could be confusing. I am talking about a different skyvan load, not the low opening one. I don't want people to think i got out on a 9way at 2k lol

MB 3528, RB 1182

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So everyone can keep on slappin' away, it's deserved.



You got it, next time I see you, you will get a big slap and then a big hug because I'm glad you're okay. I guess this is a lesson learned. You learned and didn't get hurt.

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Two of my good friends were seriously injured. How about some get well vibes???



I will keep them in my thoughts.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

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EDIT I just realized this could be confusing. I am talking about a different skyvan load, not the low opening one. I don't want people to think i got out on a 9way at 2k lol



Thanks for clarifying that. I had actually gasped when I read the first part of your post. :$
We are all engines of karma

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my real thoughts are posted in the Incidents thread but one medical explanation that makes perfect sense is that some of the folks - those that did not know the exit altitude, and those that knew it but did not have the experience to handle the high speed & low altitude - had Anal Cranial Inversion syndrome
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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Jumping out at 2k???? :S

That's freakin stupid.>:(



skydivers afraid of a 2,000 exit?

sad, sad, sad....

:S



Why is that sad, Rans? There are MANY skydivers who have hundreds and hundreds of jumps who are afraid of CRW jumps. Is that sad too?

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

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Jumping out at 2k???? :S

That's freakin stupid.>:(




No, skydiving is stupid.


Will all you wet behind the ear types please stay out of my way when the wings are on fire? I'll be happy to let you all go down with the A/C.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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yes, absolutely.

its sad whenever someone uses their personal fears to label something 'stupid'

it is sad in the case of CRW where the skills they learn (or fail to learn rather) go along way to helping keep them alive once under canopy, even if they only do a few CRW jumps for training.

it is sad in relation to a 2k jump in that you MAY NOT have the opportunity to pick your exit altitude. The only thing that makes a 2k jump 'less safe' than a 13k freefall is the JUMPER and their ability to handle it. (and yes i know some 300+ jump FFers who have issues with a stable clear and pull and that is sad too...)

just my opinion ofc, but if you (as a licensed jumper) are REALLY AFRAID of leaving an aircraft at 2k AGL you shouldnt be skydiving... as you have clearly NOT absorbed some of the BASIC SURVIVAL SKILLS
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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this clarifies it, thanks...

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its sad whenever someone uses their personal fears to label something 'stupid'

it is sad in the case of CRW where the skills they learn (or fail to learn rather) go along way to helping keep them alive.



personally, 2k exits scare me. can't stand them. will do them, b/c it's important, but never have been comfortable w/ em, even though I'm rock solid on exit. I guess it's a psychological thing, I don't know. I fear that b/c my margin of error is so much smaller, I'll choke and that's all she wrote. But the funny thing is, put me out at 3k and the anxiety is gone and I'm out and open in no time. I think if I did MORE of them, I'd get comfy w/ them. [:/]

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

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Whoever said I was scared? :|


And I find it highly ironic that you and diablo, who have basically called me an idiot for being a Christian, are now using my opinion about jumping out at 2k as an "excuse" to call me out as someone who should not be skydiving. :ph34r:


But whatever, think what you'd like. My panties aren't in a bunch. :)


Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

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I'll be happy to let you all go down with the A/C.



Wow...remind me never to get on the same plane on you. :| Quotes like that seem to show people who don't really care about a fellow skydiver's death...because they were "too stupid" to begin with, right? :S Sickening!


Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

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