Removable slider on a freefall main?

[Spizzzarko 0]

"He's not asking about an RDS, but a removable slider - everyone else chimed in talking about the RDS. "

Those are one in the same. The only difference between a full rds and a removable slider is about 10' of dacron line attached to various locations on the slider and the bag.


"The main thing I can see would be the longer "stow time" of a removable slider - would you agree?"

Dropping the thing is a distinct possibility and an expensive mistake. Also you will need to sew some pockets on all of your jump suits to accomodate the slider, and that = more $.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Lets go back to basics. What is the "handicap" using an old school stowable slider? You can pull it down and put behind of your neck.

[icevideot 0]

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While I lack the skydiving skill and experience of some one with 1000 jumps, that doesn't mean that I lack the ability to properly re-rig a slider.

You are absolutely right about this. Anyone who can learn to properly pack a parachute and close the container can also learn to reconfigure a removable slider. You are seeking the information that will allow you to make an informed decision.

I am personally going to try slocks first. Someday I may use a removable slider but for now I am content to let others discover the long term pros and cons of each design and then my decision can be based on even more information.

Has anyone on here had specific problems with their own removable slider? I would be interested in reading about them. Even collapsible sliders can hurt you if you don't reconfigure them properly.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[Spizzzarko 0]

There really is no handicap perse, but with an RDS you can allow the wing to flatten out a little more to produce more lift and less drag. This only helps out on smalle highly loaded canopies in competitive swooping, ant that is my whole point! An RDS on a big canopy is going to do NOTHING for you.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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An RDS on a big canopy is going to do NOTHING for you.

As you told added complexity and unnecessary risk.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Has anyone on here had specific problems with their own removable slider? I would be interested in reading about them. Even collapsible sliders can hurt you if you don't reconfigure them properly.

I have seen somewhere that some of them was not as good in terminal deployment as stock sliders.

[DougH 270]

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How about you make 15 another jump from the price of the RDS you really don't need? Keep on dreaming! That's safe .

Spizzarko has already covered this point really well. You are helpful as usual; posting advice in threads that have already been shared by other forum members, in more concise, contstructive, and helpful posts.

If you read the link I included you will see that there are many swoopers who use their RDS setups on working jumps and reguarly take them to terminal. Functionally they work fine for all of these jumpers. Older models may not have worked as well. Which setups you are refrencing when you said that you heard they didn't work as well? That information would be helpful.

Thank you everyone for the helpful posts, I will definetly take time to think about all the stuff that you have written.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Spizzarko has already covered this point really well. You are helpful as usual; posting advice in threads that have already been shared by other forum members, in more concise, contstructive, and helpful posts. Tongue Wink

So? Just keep on asking !

[mnealtx 0]

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He's not asking about an RDS, but a removable slider - everyone else chimed in talking about the RDS.

Ok. Do your research. You might know it better than those even using it.

And if YOU re-read the OP (instead of trying to snark me for disputing your post), you'll see where he was NOT talking about an removable pilot chute/d-bag/slider (which is the definition of a removable DEPLOYMENT system, is it not?), but a removable SLIDER.

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The main thing I can see would be the longer "stow time" of a removable slider - would you agree?

And that could be a bit harder to lose midair....

[mnealtx 0]

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"He's not asking about an RDS, but a removable slider - everyone else chimed in talking about the RDS. "

Those are one in the same. The only difference between a full rds and a removable slider is about 10' of dacron line attached to various locations on the slider and the bag.

Beg pardon?? How does changing the slider from fixed to removable make it where the d-bag is no longer attached the canopy? Am I missing something somewhere?

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"The main thing I can see would be the longer "stow time" of a removable slider - would you agree?"

Dropping the thing is a distinct possibility and an expensive mistake. Also you will need to sew some pockets on all of your jump suits to accomodate the slider, and that = more $.

Agreed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AggieDave 6]

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Beg pardon?? How does changing the slider from fixed to removable make it where the d-bag is no longer attached the canopy? Am I missing something somewhere?

Its the difference between partial and full RDS. A partial use is simply the removable slider. The full RDS has a line running from the slider to the d-bag. The d-bag is not attatched to the canopy in any other way. That way you can reel in your PC and d-bag with your removed slider and stuff it all in your shirt to look like a pregnant swooper.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

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Beg pardon?? How does changing the slider from fixed to removable make it where the d-bag is no longer attached the canopy? Am I missing something somewhere?

Its the difference between partial and full RDS. A partial use is simply the removable slider. The full RDS has a line running from the slider to the d-bag. The d-bag is not attatched to the canopy in any other way. That way you can reel in your PC and d-bag with your removed slider and stuff it all in your shirt to look like a pregnant swooper.

"Pregnant swooper" - Yup, saw that with Todd last year...

Appreciate the info - I'd only ever seen RDS referred to in relation to the full setup.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,434]

>How does changing the slider from fixed to removable make it where
> the d-bag is no longer attached the canopy? Am I missing
> something somewhere?

On a true RDS there is an additional line between the bag and the slider that retains the bag after opening. The slider _and_ bag can then be removed from the system and stowed somewhere.

[billvon 2,434]

>I don't know if it's a hot idea at 115 skydives....

As other people have said, I don't think it is. A minor rigging mistake with an RDS can very easily cause serious injury or death. If you have a problem keeping your slider down - solve that problem. If you do not have the rigging experience to deal with a slider that won't stay down you do not have the rigging experience to properly rig and operate a much more complex (and much more dangerous) system. (IMO of course.)

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Ummm, are you responding to me or the thread?

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[billvon 2,434]

Sorry, fixed that.

[mnealtx 0]

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>How does changing the slider from fixed to removable make it where
> the d-bag is no longer attached the canopy? Am I missing
> something somewhere?

On a true RDS there is an additional line between the bag and the slider that retains the bag after opening. The slider _and_ bag can then be removed from the system and stowed somewhere.

Right, I knew about the full RDS... but in his original post, he was asking about the removable slider, which I *thought* was still possible to get WITHOUT getting a 'full' RDS.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AggieDave 6]

The only difference in setup between a "partial" RDS and a "full" RDS is the line from the slider to the d-bag. Many of the same problems exist, as have been mentioned in rigging errors. What hadn't been mentioned is a problem with some RDS designs that allow the slider to twist and flex, making the slider change shape and how much area is being presented to the relative wind. I've seen some fairly brutal openings arise from that problem.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

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What hadn't been mentioned is a problem with some RDS designs that allow the slider to twist and flex, making the slider change shape and how much area is being presented to the relative wind. I've seen some fairly brutal openings arise from that problem.

That just doesn't sound like fun at all...

I want to make sure I'm straight, here... the only real component replaced in either a partial or a full RDS is the slider. If you're doing a partial RDS, you leave the d-bag attached to the canopy, and if you're doing a full RDS, you remove the attachment to the canopy and attach the line between the d-bag and slider... do I have it right?

If so, I understand the confusion in the discussion a bit better, now. Thanks for helping clear that up for me.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[AggieDave 6]

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the only real component replaced in either a partial or a full RDS is the slider.

The slider used on both is typically is the same one.

The difference is the presence or lack there of, of a line of some material attatched to the bridle and D-bag attatchment point and then to the slider in some fasion. That way your D-bag isn't attatched to your canopy and when your slider comes down you release the slider from the gromments and reel in your line, d-bag and PC.



If you really want to be special you leave the line attatched to your slider and D-bag then hook your d-bag up to your canopy attatchment point. That would probably make for an "interesting" opening and most definately a fresh bottle for your rigger. I only mention that since if if hasn't happened yet, give it time, somenoe will pull that one off. Hopefully its not me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mnealtx 0]

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If you really want to be special you leave the line attatched to your slider and D-bag then hook your d-bag up to your canopy attatchment point. That would probably make for an "interesting" opening and most definately a fresh bottle for your rigger. I only mention that since if if hasn't happened yet, give it time, somenoe will pull that one off. Hopefully its not me.

Hey, I've already had ONE jump where the slider was just hanging around up there FAR too long for my taste... I don't wanna encourage it!!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[riggerrob 558]

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If you really want to be special you leave the line attatched to your slider and D-bag then hook your d-bag up to your canopy attatchment point. That would probably make for an "interesting" opening and most definately a fresh bottle for your rigger. I only mention that since if if hasn't happened yet, give it time, somenoe will pull that one off. Hopefully its not me.

Hey, I've already had ONE jump where the slider was just hanging around up there FAR too long for my taste... I don't wanna encourage it!!!

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That has already been tried on several accuracy and HAHO canopies.
The accuracy competitors wanted to slow openings on their Para-Foils and Eiff Challenger Classics. Remember that those canopies have HUGE nose openings.
Pilot chute controlled sliders also worked well on a few military freefall and HAHO canopies, because they needed to slow openings at higher altitudes, higher airspeeds and heavier loads.
Some pilot chute controlled sliders even have double length bridle. One end of the birdle is tied to the pilot chute, then it is routed down through the middle of the canopy, through a pulley on the slide, then back up to tie onto the bottom skin of the canopy. This doubled the reefing force of the pilot chute, slowing openings even further.
If you tried this (i.e. installed bridle incorrectly) on most modern swooping canopies, they would fail to open, because their nose openings are far too small.

[mnealtx 0]

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That has already been tried on several accuracy and HAHO canopies.
The accuracy competitors wanted to slow openings on their Para-Foils and Eiff Challenger Classics. Remember that those canopies have HUGE nose openings.
Pilot chute controlled sliders also worked well on a few military freefall and HAHO canopies, because they needed to slow openings at higher altitudes, higher airspeeds and heavier loads.
Some pilot chute controlled sliders even have double length bridle. One end of the birdle is tied to the pilot chute, then it is routed down through the middle of the canopy, through a pulley on the slide, then back up to tie onto the bottom skin of the canopy. This doubled the reefing force of the pilot chute, slowing openings even further.
If you tried this (i.e. installed bridle incorrectly) on most modern swooping canopies, they would fail to open, because their nose openings are far too small.

G'morning Rob -

I've seen that on a PTCH-11 main that the DZO's wife was jumping, over in the Czech Republic. Seems like all that extra line (it went back to the bottom skin of the canopy) would be a HUGE pain in the ass to pack!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[CrazyL 0]

Good posts, good guidance. As a rigger/swooper I have made and seen several removable PC/slider designs. What i've found is more wear and tear on the removable slider over time. Some combinations of the line vs metal used on slider i.e. rings/grommets will damage either line or metal. Since these aftermarket removables have began i've felt that they were a 'riggers toy'. Needs inspection and maintenance and replaced more often than standard slider. Hope this helps. Later, gone jump'n