9-11 Parachutes

[SansSuit 1]

Immediately after the 9-11 tragedy there was a big deal about emergency escape parachutes for exits from high rise buildings. I haven't heard much about them since. Did they ever come to fruition? Are they out there?

Peace,
-Dawson.
http://www.SansSuit.com
The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving

[shermanator 3]

yes, they are called BASE rigs.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[MagicGuy 0]

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yes, they are called BASE rigs.

Not completely a funny topic, but that made me laugh

[skyjumpsteve 0]

There are a few companies marketing high rise emergency parachutes. They cost between one and two grand. There definitely has been more marketing of these post 9/11.

http://www.executivechute.com/
http://www.evacuchute.com

[TomAiello 25]

I saw testing for several of them.

The HOPE system was probably the best one, because it had the least oscillation, the slowest descent rate, and the most reliable static line deployment system.

I haven't seen any new development or work on any of these systems in several years.

As an experienced BASE jumper, my opinion is that you'd have to be a fool to think that using one of these would lower your chance of injury or death.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[AggieDave 6]

Sure, but if you used one, regardless of the outcome, you'd get your 15 minutes of national fame!

You can't argue that point. Every news agency in the western side of the world would play video (if it was there) or atleast carry the story).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Douva 0]

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Sure, but if you used one, regardless of the outcome, you'd get your 15 minutes of national fame!

You can't argue that point. Every news agency in the western side of the world would play video (if it was there) or atleast carry the story).

Can you imagine the conspiracy theories that would be flying about if just before the twin towers collapsed people had seen someone descending from one of them under a parachute?

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[jtval 0]

That wouldn't be the problem. theproblem would arise when you have hundreds of people who don't know how to use them in the same airspace.


Either way it would not be pretty.

My photos

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[Douva 0]

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That wouldn't be the problem. theproblem would arise when you have hundreds of people who don't know how to use them in the same airspace.


Either way it would not be pretty.

They're round chutes. It would be like a mass military air drop--The canopies don't steer, and if they collide, they just bounce off each other.

As for conspiracy theories, I wouldn't call that a real problem. The conspiracy nuts will always find something to fuel their paranoia.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[dorbie 0]

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As an experienced BASE jumper, my opinion is that you'd have to be a fool to think that using one of these would lower your chance of injury or death.

I just don't see this as a logical argument. There are people in the twin towers who jumped WITHOUT a rig. For those people this WOULD UNQUESTIONABLY have reduced the chance of injury & death, although it would not have eliminated it. There was also a group of people on the roofs of both towers who died with the collapse.

This is a last ditch desperate solution for similar scenario. It's for when you have no other option but to jump & take your chances.

[TomAiello 25]

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As an experienced BASE jumper, my opinion is that you'd have to be a fool to think that using one of these would lower your chance of injury or death.

I just don't see this as a logical argument. There are people in the twin towers who jumped WITHOUT a rig.

Yes, but in every other case that the rigs would likely have been used, it would have been safer to stay in the building.

How about the next time some kid flies a cessna into a building in Miami, we see 30 office workers jumping round systems with a 50% surival rate, instead of staying in the building with a 100% survival rate?


If you want to logically consider the use of parachutes as a means of building evacuation, you need to consider the potential for misuse. Some people are going to panic and jump when they don't have to--and then what?



Here's another thought: If those people in the Twin Towers had the current generation of "escape chutes" they'd all have died anyway. There is no way their static lined rounds would have made it past the extreme heat, flames and turbulence. I'm guessing that they would have actually ignited, and then we'd have gotten to see flaming parachutes dropping those people to their deaths on CNN.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jtval 0]

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That wouldn't be the problem. theproblem would arise when you have hundreds of people who don't know how to use them in the same airspace.


Either way it would not be pretty.

They're round chutes. It would be like a mass military air drop--The canopies don't steer, and if they collide, they just bounce off each other.

Maybe if they were strewn across the sky but if they jumped out above each other I.E. floor40 and 41 etc.
wouldnt they just fall into the burble?

My photos

My Videos

[TomAiello 25]

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It's for when you have no other option but to jump & take your chances.

Who decides there is no other option? A scared office worker?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

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It would be like a mass military air drop...

Except without the "military" or the "air drop" parts.

it would be more like a bunch of scared office workers with no training and no experience, trying to make their first ever parachute jump under incredibly stressful conditions. Worse, they'd have to make the decision to make an emergency bailout in those conditions.

You want to bet on their decision making percentages under those conditions? How about their ability to successfully execute the jump? And especially how about their ability to successfully execute the jump after making the wrong decision and deciding to jump when they shouldn't have?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[NickDG 23]

Apex has been selling the HOPE (High Office Parachute Escape) system for many years now, and without giving away any company secrets, I can say these systems, which started out kind of slow, are getting more popular. And wuffos don't have the same prejudice that skydivers seem to hold for these rigs. Also terrorism isn't the main concern for them either, as every time a more apt to happen high rise fire makes headlines the phone starts ringing at Apex.

"It's better to jump and try - than stay and fry!"

NickD BASE 194

[BASE1036 0]

At least if they jumped and didnt make it...They would die doing something I love....hehe

Ill agree with Tom in some aspects, but I also agree that it is better to jump if YOU feel that it is the right decision, after all, we have this discussion all the time in the BASE world, who makes the ultimate decision to jump regardless of sfaety, traing or the outcome? YOU do. I would say that an emergency round jump from 110 stories would be safer than trying to freefall a 170 footer.....

Happy New Year

Daniel
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[Butters 0]

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Some people are going to panic and jump when they don't have to--and then what?

Fixed it for you ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[wildblue 4]

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And wuffos don't have the same prejudice that skydivers seem to hold for these rigs.

That's simply because they don't know any better.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[bch7773 0]

theres a video of one of these chutes being tested, with no backup, off a building. The guy landed safely.

of course, its silly to spend $1500 on something that you have about a .000001% chance of using.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Douva 0]

I know skydivers like to believe we're an elite bunch, but we're really not the only people capable of surviving a decent under a parachute. I'm pretty sure a few untrained pilots have pulled it off.

Most whuffos are not exactly overly eager to jump from a building.

"Do you smell smoke, Bill?"
"No, but let's jump from the thirtieth floor, just to be safe."

You're using all sorts of assumptions--People might jump on top of each other; the parachutes might melt; jumpers might hit obstacles on the ground; people might jump when they really don't have to--to make the argument that these chutes wouldn't work. Why shouldn't people be given the option, as a last resort? Can you say for sure that none of the people who jumped from the Twin Towers could have had successful deployments if they'd been wearing parachutes? I don't remember seeing any of them fall through flames.

The military uses round chutes because you can make a lot of mistakes under a round chute and still survive. Most of your arguments could be used against bailout rigs for pilots, but I doubt you'd ever make that argument. If I were a whuffo working in a high rise, I certainly wouldn't want to be denied the option of having a building escape rig available because some people don't think I'm wise enough to handle it.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[happythoughts 0]

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I know skydivers like to believe we're an elite bunch, but we're really not the only people capable of surviving a decent under a parachute. I'm pretty sure a few untrained pilots have pulled it off.

My dad said that they quit giving parachute training to pilots because so many were getting minor injuries that interfered with their training.

When he had to bail out, he had no problem. That was at night, over unknown terrain.

(The co-pilot did break his leg because he was too close to the mountain by the time that he exited. That was still better than the alternative.)

[TomAiello 25]

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Most of your arguments could be used against bailout rigs for pilots...

No, they can't.

The pilot of an aircraft is the person who is in the _best_ position to know if the aircraft can be landed or he needs to bail out. He has all the data, and is accustomed to making decisions about and based on that data.

The random occupant of a high rise is one of the _worst_ people to know if he needs to jump. He doesn't have the data, he's not trained to interpret it, and he's in no way accustomed to making those decisions.

Very different cases.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[wildblue 4]

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Very different cases.

... not to mention the urban landing environment, snag points, crazy winds, etc. I hate to say this, but I'm also pretty sure your average pilot has a better head on his/her shoulders than your average office worker.

I'm pretty sure the risk of people jumping far outweighs the very slight chance that it would save someone (9/11 being a unique case)

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[Douva 0]

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Very different cases.

... not to mention the urban landing environment, snag points, crazy winds, etc. I hate to say this, but I'm also pretty sure your average pilot has a better head on his/her shoulders than your average office worker.

I'm pretty sure the risk of people jumping far outweighs the very slight chance that it would save someone (9/11 being a unique case)

Again, I think this is the same old "The general public can't be trusted--They're not as smart as us." attitude that has reared its ugly head throughout history. People who have never used a parachute before are not going to nonchalantly clip in and jump at the first sign of danger. But they might like to have the option if they run out of breathable air or can no longer stand the heat.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[billvon 2,456]

>I'm pretty sure the risk of people jumping far outweighs the very
>slight chance that it would save someone (9/11 being a unique case)

If the rescue system we're talking about involved pushing a "rescue me" button, I'd agree. The guy involved would have no idea of the risk he was taking.

But just about every whuffo I've ever met has an extremely strong natural aversion to jumping off buildings. Indeed, I think it's safe to say that even when faced with imminent death, a good fraction of them would choose death over jumping out a window, rig or not. Our primal instincts are too strong.

So I think there's a very natural built-in prohibition against jumping which would tend to prevent such a system from ever being used at all, much less used when needed. My primary objection to such a system is that the odds of it being useful are incredibly low. It's the same reason I don't wear a rig on a commercial flight. It might well have saved my life on three aircraft incidents I can think of, but it's simply not that likely to be needed.