stimpy4242 0 #1 October 16, 2006 I am trying to find a rig for my size. My weight before gear is 295. I am working with jumpshack to get a rig, I am getting the racer 2k3. When it comes to canopies however I have a few choices and I want to make the best choice since I am buying new stuff that I don't really want to downsize later and have a BIG container. People keep recommending to me that I could use a 300 navigator so jumpshack has the firebolt 298. Would this work for me? I would be loading it about 1:1.1. Also the reserve is an angelfire 300. Now the next option up from 298 is 350 and for the angelfire the next up that I know of is 400, but she mentioned they might have something more than 300 but less than 400. What are you oppinions? I am very confident in my canopy skills since it was the skill that I had to prove myself on considering my size with my instructor.Jump at The Skydivin' Place http://www.skydivepa-md.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #2 October 16, 2006 It's tough to get an honest opinion on the Firebolt and the Angelfire, since there aren't many people out there jumping them. Most of the people who talk about them seem to have vested interests. On the other hand, PD mains and reserves are very well known, and very well respected. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #3 October 16, 2006 I've got a Firebolt (200) and I love it. Packs very easy, and opens better than any canopy I've ever jumped. Why not demo both of them and see which one you like? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #4 October 16, 2006 I've jumped the Firebolt 298 and I own a Firebolt 350. The 298 is very zippy and responsive to inputs in the toggle pressure and the responsiveness. It feels more like a normal sport canopy than a tandem canopy. The 350 when weighted also has a similar feel to it. Both have excellent bottom end flare and flight characteristics. With your experience and weight out the door I would recommend you start with the 350 and look to possibly downsize to the 298 at a later date. If the opportunity to jump both sizes is available, by all means demo them both."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,106 #5 October 16, 2006 Racer 2k3 With 50 jumps - my suggestion would be the Navigator 300 as the Firebolt is an ellipitcal. Angelfire Reserve somewhere between the 300 & 400 range. Having said that, I'm more familiar with people at your skill level on Navigators than I am on Firebolts, so I'm going to ask a couple of well-respected Instructors to step in and give their two cents. You're on the outside edge of even my Anvil Brothers experience. Edited to add: Well, Scott's already jumped in. We'll see if SkymonkeyOne has a minute.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stimpy4242 0 #6 October 16, 2006 Since it is difficult to locate rigs for guys our size used, I am also looking for a cost effective solution. One advantage of going with the firebolt and angelfire as well as the racer is the same company for all three and a deal is more likely. My understanding is that the 298 firebolt flys more like a larger canopy than others like it including the navigator 300. Is there any truth to this?Jump at The Skydivin' Place http://www.skydivepa-md.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #7 October 16, 2006 Keep in mind this guy is going otd at about 330-345lbs. I don't like the idea of a 300 reserve with a maximum loading of 330 with his otd weight. But what do I know. "GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #8 October 16, 2006 If he went with the Firebolt 350 and a 400 reserve,2k3 container that he mentioned, the whole rig would come in at 38 lbs. With an estimated exit weight of 333lbs, he would well be within a 1 to 1 WL. for the main(.95 to be exact) and the 400 reserve would put him at .83. All of those numbers are fairly conservative for the weight and skill level of the pilot."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflyer9999 1 #9 October 16, 2006 My weight before gear is 285-290 and I jump a Navigator 280. My landings on the Navigator at this wing loading are gentle, though I do usually take a wrap on the brakes to get all of the flare out of the canopy. I don't have any experience with the Firebolt, but I don't think it would be a bad decision to go with the PD Navigator. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 37 #10 October 16, 2006 I definitely would advise not exceeding the weight limits of the reserve. That's a very important thing. I'm sure Jumpshack would advise you of that as well... I've only jumped very small (100ish) sq ft Firebolts, but they seem more docile than a typical elliptical. I don't think a Firebolt would necessarily be a bad canopy for him. I can't really recommend a size thing just because I've never jumped anything in anywhere near that size range... W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #11 October 16, 2006 QuoteIf he went with the Firebolt 350 and a 400 reserve,2k3 container that he mentioned, the whole rig would come in at 38 lbs. With an estimated exit weight of 333lbs, he would well be within a 1 to 1 WL. for the main(.95 to be exact) and the 400 reserve would put him at .83. All of those numbers are fairly conservative for the weight and skill level of the pilot. Oh, he's jumping naked? Assuming the 295 was naked he's going to add clothes, shoes, jumpsuit, helmet, instruments, etc. Probably 12 to 15 lbs more. Still conservative numbers.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #12 October 16, 2006 QuoteOh, he's jumping naked? Well he said his weight was 295 before gear. I assume he isn't speaking about his naked weight but his weight with clothes and shoes on.I doubt a helmet and alti would add more than a few lbs. if that. Even if it did, he would still be at an acceptable WL given his weight and experience.If you added 50 lbs instead of the 38lbs of equipment and put him under the 350 you would still be looking at a WL of .98. You would have to put him under the 298 with the 50 lbs added equipment weight to get a WL of 1.15 which isn't bad but I wouldn't recommned it yet at his skill level."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stimpy4242 0 #13 October 16, 2006 yeah 295 is actually my current weight with clothes and jumpsuit.Jump at The Skydivin' Place http://www.skydivepa-md.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mx757 4 #14 October 17, 2006 QuoteI've got a Firebolt (200) and I love it. Packs very easy, and opens better than any canopy I've ever jumped. Why not demo both of them and see which one you like? I have a Firebolt too real nice canopy. I agree it opens nice and smooth.. packs easy too... Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #15 October 17, 2006 Isn't the Firebolt advetised by Jump Shack as a high performance eliptical parachute? Something to consider with 45 jumps.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #16 October 17, 2006 QuoteIsn't the Firebolt advetised by Jump Shack as a high performance eliptical parachute? Something to consider with 45 jumps. According to them, it is all of the above: "When lightly loaded (.5 or .6 pounds per sq. ft.), it can be a beginner canopy. When heavily loaded (2.3 pounds per sq. ft. to 1.7 pounds per sq. ft.) it is a high performance canopy that will easily out swoop a Stiletto or other semi-elliptical canopy. When loaded from .85 pounds per square foot to 1.6 or so, it is a great all-around canopy, capable of slow flight with lots of stability and great toggling range. It was created in 3-D, so the dimensions of the skins and lines lengths are extremely accurate, and the characteristics were completely predictable. So when you ask "what can it be compared to?" the answer is: Triathlon when lightly loaded, Stiletto/Spectre/Icarus Crossfire when loaded "mid weight", and Icarus Extreme/Velocity when heavily loaded. Yes, it's really that versatile!" http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=FireBolt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #17 October 17, 2006 QuoteIsn't the Firebolt advetised by Jump Shack as a high performance eliptical parachute? It is only considered a high performance canopy at the smaller size/ high wing loadings. At 350 sq ft and .95 WL, elliptical or not, it's not going to perform like a high performance canopy. The fact that a canopy is elliptical in shape as opposed to a true square,does not automatically make it a high performance canopy. The pictures of the worlds largest canopy (9000 sq ft) I recently posted is an elliptical canopy with a WL of 3.3 when loaded down. It definately doesnt display characteristics of a high performance canopy. A good deal of the canopies out there are not truely square but rather varying degrees of an elliptical shape. In fact, many of the new military HALO canopys are not only hybrids but also elliptical and by no means could be considered high performance.Having weighted my 350 to approx 500 lbs with a WL of 1.4, I found it still performed conservatively to pilot inputs."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 October 17, 2006 QuoteQuoteIsn't the Firebolt advetised by Jump Shack as a high performance eliptical parachute? Something to consider with 45 jumps. According to them, it is all of the above: "When lightly loaded (.5 or .6 pounds per sq. ft.), it can be a beginner canopy. When heavily loaded (2.3 pounds per sq. ft. to 1.7 pounds per sq. ft.) it is a high performance canopy that will easily out swoop a Stiletto or other semi-elliptical canopy. When loaded from .85 pounds per square foot to 1.6 or so, it is a great all-around canopy, capable of slow flight with lots of stability and great toggling range. It was created in 3-D, so the dimensions of the skins and lines lengths are extremely accurate, and the characteristics were completely predictable. So when you ask "what can it be compared to?" the answer is: Triathlon when lightly loaded, Stiletto/Spectre/Icarus Crossfire when loaded "mid weight", and Icarus Extreme/Velocity when heavily loaded. Yes, it's really that versatile!" http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=FireBolt So when did Dan Preston start working for Atair?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #19 October 17, 2006 I agree the Firebolt would be a fine canopy for this individual. I jump a Precision 330 and on low or no wind days it is plenty fast on final. Hence I feel the 350 is better suited to him. The container is also a good choice in my opinion. The risk here is the RESERVE. I do not like the idea of him under a 300 reserve. It isnt about wingloading it is about weight limitations. I dont know if I agree with going with a 400 reserve, just seems like overkill to me. I know of 2 reserves (easily obtainable for sport rigs) a 335 and 350 that both have weight limits of over 400lbs. That my 2 cents."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TMPattersonJr 0 #20 October 17, 2006 I've been jumping Firebolts since jump 24 I started with the 200 and have jumped the 182, the 164 (one of which I now own) and the 146. Have loved them all, and will tell you they all have good flight characteristics they can be really docile in slow flight and you can really get them to move if you want to. A nice straight in approach will give you just as much flare as a front riser turn to final. The canopy is really forgiving and at the loading you're talking about (around 1-1) would be a good canopy with your skill level. Just a piece of advice, demo as many canopies in the size range your looking for and decide for yourself which canopy is best suited for you!!!Blue SkiesBlack DeathFacebook www.PLabsInc.com www.SkydiveDeLand.com www.FlyteSkool.ws Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stimpy4242 0 #21 October 17, 2006 Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's oppinions. I have learned one thing from this post and some other people that I did not know before and that is to demo the chutes. I did not realize the manufacturer will actually send you a chute to demo, both reserve and main. Never thought about hooking the reserve up as a main. I will agree with aubrey I would like a reserve bigger than the 300 but smaller than 400 and while they have not told me yet, they did mention they had something in between...waiting to hear from jumpshack...as for the 298 or 350 I am still up in the air. Also it seems that as this debate continues I will continue improving my skills and the rig will not even be ready for at least 4 weeks from when I order it. I have been knocking out jumps at about 10 per week and hope to have improved my canopy skills even by the time I receive it which I something I am also considering. If you have more comments please continue to post them.Jump at The Skydivin' Place http://www.skydivepa-md.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 120 #22 October 17, 2006 Sorry for getting here late. I jump a Firebolt 164 it is the best all around canopy since the Cruislite by Paraflite and I used the Cruislite from 1981 to 1988 then a PD 190, Sabre 150, Sabre 135, Sabre 170, Spectre 135. Now I'm getting a second Firebolt and the Spectre 135 will be for sale. I have no vested interest in Jump Shack the owners are old friends and their dog loves me.I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #23 October 17, 2006 QuoteI would like a reserve bigger than the 300 but smaller than 400 and while they have not told me yet, they did mention they had something in between...waiting to hear from jumpshack Go ahead and give Jumpshack a call as they do have a reserve smaller than the 400. I want to say its like a 360 or 370. Tell them you want to demo both canopies and the container. They have every size demo rig conceivable on hand so its no big deal for them.Ask for Nancy."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #24 October 18, 2006 hell if that is the case i might call to demo a rig and canopy. i would like to know if it is indeed more comfortable than my Vector."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stimpy4242 0 #25 October 18, 2006 I am going to be demoing the 298 next weekend. If all goes well I think I have settled out on racer 2k3 with 298 main and 300 reserve.Jump at The Skydivin' Place http://www.skydivepa-md.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
