slotperfect 7 #51 August 16, 2006 QuoteI am simply stating that when you seal a parachute, you the rigger,are stating that the parachute and it's componets are airworthy for a 120 day pack cycle. I think the FAR is ambiguous enough to be interpreted either way. For me it's a fundamental issue: when I turn over a freshly inspected and packed rig and reserve to the owner, I want to be sure I have done everything I can - to the best of my knowledge and ability - to ensure that the rig (through normal use and care) is airworthy through the entire 120 day period. If I know that the AAD will become unairworthy during that period (battery, service interval, or service life), and I pack it anyway, I feel that fundamentally I have not done everything I can to the best of my knowledge and ability to make it safe. This is a grey area - to my knowledge it has not been "tested" by having a real rig under these circumstances go through a fatality investigation or other scrutiny by an FAA Examiner. I am in agreement with Sparky - I won't let a battery, service interval, or service life expire on an AAD during the current repack cycle in a rig with my seal on it. Just like a tire shop can refuse to work on Firestone tires, any Rigger can refuse to pack a rig in which the AAD will become unserviceable during the following 120 days.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSK 0 #52 August 16, 2006 Quote If a jumper was found with it out of date and being used, the jumper would go scott-free and the rigger can now be held liable under the new rule. so, under your interpretation of 105, if a jumper jumps an out of date reserve (past 120 days in the US) the rigger is responsible ?!? QuoteThe point I am trying to make is this. The rigger certifies the rig and it's components are airworthy for 120 days by placing a seal on it. where is this specifically stated in the regs? QuoteExactly my point. No matter if the pack cycle is 120 days, 6 months, or 1 year, the buffer would keep it in check. the 12-year lifetime +3 months for CYPRES-1 and +6 months for CYPRES-2 NEVER had anything to do with repack cycles - it is based on 4 years from the 8-year maintenance final due date (meaning there is no disadvantage to doing the maintenance earlier in the window) check my math, but having a 3 month or even a 6 month "buffer" does not mean the AAD would be legal through the entire repack cycle, depending on the timing of the repack and CYPRES DOM and with the 1-year repack cycle in some countries, you are talking about robbing the CYPRES owner of up to 11 months of use! currently in the US with our 120-day repack, a customer could loose up to 3 months of CYPRES use (when we change to 180-day up to 5 months) - for some jumpers, depending on the timing of DOM, repack cycle, and jump season (down-time over winter), you could be requiring your customer to buy a new CYPRES in the middle of the summer instead of sometime the next spring! I totally agree it is your personal choice to handle this the way you want to - however, right now I see nothing in the regs that requires riggers to do so in the U.S. sounds like a good topic for the Rigger's Forum at the PIA Symposium in February! for now, in lieu of any regulations that I am not aware of, our earlier recommendations and requirements remain Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #53 August 16, 2006 Quote so by your understanding of the fars if a jumper picks his rig up covers it in superglue, gets on an aircraft and jumps with it, the rigger is responsible because his seal says its good for 120 days after he sealed it! No, What I stated was when I put my seal on the rig, everthing will complant with dates and services. If someone does something to the rig, it's a different story. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #54 August 16, 2006 QuoteWhy would that be your responsibility? wouldn't you just note on thr PDC that the rig expired when the life of the first componet expired. Because right or wrong if something does bring the rig into question by the FAA I am going to spend a lot of time explaining that "they are big boys and girls and they can make their own decisions" When they continue to make poor decisions in other areas of skydiving why would you expect them to change on this.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #55 August 16, 2006 Quote so, under your interpretation of 105, if a jumper jumps an out of date reserve (past 120 days in the US) the rigger is responsible ?!? Absolutely not! That is outside of the 120 window of which the rigger is responsible. Quote the 12-year lifetime +3 months for CYPRES-1 and +6 months for CYPRES-2 NEVER had anything to do with repack cycles - it is based on 4 years from the 8-year maintenance final due date (meaning there is no disadvantage to doing the maintenance earlier in the window) check my math, but having a 3 month or even a 6 month "buffer" does not mean the AAD would be legal through the entire repack cycle, depending on the timing of the repack and CYPRES DOM and with the 1-year repack cycle in some countries, you are talking about robbing the CYPRES owner of up to 11 months of use! currently in the US with our 120-day repack, a customer could loose up to 3 months of CYPRES use (when we change to 180-day up to 5 months) - for some jumpers, depending on the timing of DOM, repack cycle, and jump season (down-time over winter), you could be requiring your customer to buy a new CYPRES in the middle of the summer instead of sometime the next spring! I totally agree it is your personal choice to handle this the way you want to - however, right now I see nothing in the regs that requires riggers to do so in the U.S. sounds like a good topic for the Rigger's Forum at the PIA Symposium in February! for now, in lieu of any regulations that I am not aware of, our earlier recommendations and requirements remain Cliff, Actually, you guys could make it all better. Airtec could state that as long as the dates where good when closed, it would be valid through out the pack cycle. That would be the hot ticket!!! and legal!!! BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSK 0 #56 August 17, 2006 Quote That is outside of the 120 window of which the rigger is responsible. Mel, help me out here, I still can not find the regulation that states that the rigger is responsible for the "120 day window" Quote Airtec could state that as long as the dates where good when closed, it would be valid through out the pack cycle. I'm going to assume that you are joking here - because of the variables of repack vs. DOM and of the differing repack requirements around the world, the maintenance windows, due dates, and lifetime would have to be altered to accommodate the worst case scenario in order to maintain the present level of technical safety we have achieved on the other hand, you could do what you believe is right, and accommodate your customers making sure they do not loose any useful CYPRES life by simply reminding them 120+ days prior to CYPRES due date that you need to I&R their reserve now! Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quinny 0 #57 August 17, 2006 I whole heartidly agree with rigger rob. This person has purchasred a cypress and wants to get their moneys worth. Not 2 months or so short. Pack the reserve, state to the owner and on the card and on the dz(or personal)paperwork that it needs aad batteries and aad replacement on the specific date. HERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION, JUST FOR MY OWN AMUSEMENT.... How many riggers out there have an out of date aad in thier own rig? I would repack the reserve and put an expiry date on it when the batteries are due just to cover my ass. I cant wait to hear what you all say! Quinny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #58 August 17, 2006 Quoteand with the 1-year repack cycle in some countries, you are talking about robbing the CYPRES owner of up to 11 months of use! By the same token you are robbing the owner of up to 3 months of batter life. From Cypres Maintenance Information. Will the battery be replaced? The CYPRES battery will be replaced if its life time is up, or will end in less than 3 months. (The new battery is not included in the maintenance price) Why not just mark on the paper work when the battery is due and let the owner handle it?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #59 August 17, 2006 Quote Mel, help me out here, I still can not find the regulation that states that the rigger is responsible for the "120 day window" Cliff, I guess it would be common knowledge at the very least. If the rigger made a rigging error, the jumper was jumping from an airplane with the 120 pack cycle, and had a problem with it, do you not think the rigger would be responsible??? Everyone knows, including the FAA and general public, that a rigger is responsible for his or her work. QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Airtec could state that as long as the dates where good when closed, it would be valid through out the pack cycle. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm going to assume that you are joking here - because of the variables of repack vs. DOM and of the differing repack requirements around the world, No, I actually wasn't kidding. I was, in fact, speaking just for the USA market. We have the shortest repack cycle in the worid that I am aware of. The complance of the FAR's simply state that we have to maintain the AAD (if Installed) according to the manufacturer's instructions. A simple statement in the instructions regarding the US market would satisify the FAA reguirements. I know that probably is not going to happen for several reasons, but it would work. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 153 #60 August 17, 2006 QuoteQuote Mel, help me out here, I still can not find the regulation that states that the rigger is responsible for the "120 day window" Cliff, I guess it would be common knowledge at the very least. If the rigger made a rigging error, the jumper was jumping from an airplane with the 120 pack cycle, and had a problem with it, do you not think the rigger would be responsible??? I think this is at the crux of the issue... I believe that if I make a mistake it may be revisited on me regardless of when it is found (day 1, 119, 121 or 500). However, I believe that my inspection is good only on the day I sign off on it. The airworthyness of the gear is the owner/wearer's responsibility (unfortunately this list also includes the PIC). Part of verifying that it is airworthy includes verifying that it has been "(A)IR'ed" within the last 120, that it hasn't been superglued, torn, shredded or hot-knifed by the ex-wife. Those factors beyond a rigger's control (after the rigger signs off on the inspection) are NOT the rigger's responsibility no matter how many days have past. Having said that, and having heard Cliff's statement, I will still only approve Cypres' with batteries and inspections that will last the length of the repack cycle UNLESS I have direct control over keeping the rig grounded after the unit has expired (until corrected). Too many owners will blindly take that the rig (barring damage) IS good for the entire 120. I also believe that in the last 20 years (especially the last 10), that the average jumper has become ignorant about their own gear. This is something we should work to counter. Just my $.02 JimAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #61 August 17, 2006 Quote Having said that, and having heard Cliff's statement, I will still only approve Cypres' with batteries and inspections that will last the length of the repack cycle UNLESS I have direct control over keeping the rig grounded after the unit has expired (until corrected). Too many owners will blindly take that the rig (barring damage) IS good for the entire 120. You can surely bet that if a jumper goes in with a rig that has a data card entry like you state, the heat is going to be on the rigger. I ask one question; what defense would you use in a court of law? You could not state a FAR or any other guidance that would allow you to do it because there are none. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyL 0 #62 August 17, 2006 yep. I agree with this post. If date or batteries go out within 120 days. The aad is no good in the rig, legally. Stay out of HOT water. Sell him a new AAD or remove the out dated AAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #63 August 18, 2006 Repost Quoteand with the 1-year repack cycle in some countries, you are talking about robbing the CYPRES owner of up to 11 months of use! By the same token you are robbing the owner of up to 3 months of batter life. From Cypres Maintenance Information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Will the battery be replaced? The CYPRES battery will be replaced if its life time is up, or will end in less than 3 months. (The new battery is not included in the maintenance price) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why not just mark on the paper work when the battery is due and let the owner handle it?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SSK 0 #64 August 18, 2006 good question! Quote Why not just mark on the paper work when the battery is due and let the owner handle it? what you are referring to is SSK's default procedure unless instructed otherwise by the rigger (most of the time it does not make sense to have the extra repack cost to squeeze out another couple months of battery life), but if you have a specific request or need, just talk to Eric at SSK - you can even send us a replacement battery that you happen to have in stock, it will be installed at no charge the paperwork (invoice that goes to the rigger, and test certificate that goes to the owner) state the battery replacement date, battery due date, and next maintenance due date info the good news is that with CYPRES 2 there are no battery-change issues to be concerned about! Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #65 August 18, 2006 My point was that you are asking riggers to pack a reserve with a component that will not make the 120-day cycle but you will not do that with a battery during a 4/8-year maintenance.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marinho 0 #66 August 18, 2006 It seems to me that the most majority of riggers will not pack the AAD with the scenario I presented. Besides all the different interpretations of our FARs, I think it's very clear that whoever does that is taking a big chance to be in hot water. I still don't see any advantage of repack a system that have a component that will expire within the 120 days. Maybe we're forgetting the most important thing here, the user! My wife and I only use/sell cypres and we have our reasons for. I'd never use one (and I never did)that can first, give me trouble as a parachute rigger and second for not have piece of mind. Bottom line is safety is not measured by how much money you can save, but just following procedures that sometimes can cost a little more! People spend a lot of money buying their gear and as also a skydiver and a dealer, I understand how expensive can be. Well, thanks for all your inputs and I hope this discussion helped everybody to see this problem. I also hope that it'll be presented at the PIA for further discussions! Cheers,Gus Marinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #67 August 18, 2006 QuoteI also hope that it'll be presented at the PIA for further discussions! Cliff - did you add this to your list for Reno?Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites linestretch 0 #68 August 18, 2006 I JUST packed up a rig that will only last 2 more months due to the cypres expiring. I know the guy, he only jumps at my DZ and is VERY limited on funds. He knows the story and is in the process of looking for another unit. Options were to NOT pack it, and he doesn't jump, or do what I did and he gets another 2 months of fun. I will get the rig back and am not worried about it.....I hope. Not too mention, it's all written on the data card.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marinho 0 #69 August 18, 2006 QuoteI JUST packed up a rig that will only last 2 more months due to the cypres expiring. I know the guy, he only jumps at my DZ and is VERY limited on funds. He knows the story and is in the process of looking for another unit. Options were to NOT pack it, and he doesn't jump, or do what I did and he gets another 2 months of fun. I will get the rig back and am not worried about it.....I hope. Not too mention, it's all written on the data card. Cool, I also just packed a rig on the same condition you have. The only difference is that the AAD will expire in 3 months(before the 120 days rule), but I installed a new unit(cypres2). The customer also doesn't have a lot of money, but he knows all the advantages of this new unit. The customer, manufacturer and our company all benefit from this procedure. Simple like that!!! Cheers,Gus Marinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RIGGER 0 #70 August 18, 2006 Did you limited the repack cycle to 60 days or to the last day of the Cypres if it's ended before the 120 days cycle ??? did you make a copy of the data card for your files because the repack cycle is shorter ? safe Rigging !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marinho 0 #71 August 18, 2006 Hi Shlomi, I was waiting for your inputs on this issue! Come on, tell me what you think!!!!! Cheers,Gus Marinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billybobskydive 0 #72 August 18, 2006 dude, I think you are wrong you said: My point was that you are asking riggers to pack a reserve with a component that will not make the 120-day cycle but you will not do that with a battery during a 4/8-year maintenance. but he said: what you are referring to is SSK's default procedure unless instructed otherwise by the rigger (...), but if you have a specific request or need, just talk to Eric at SSK sounds pretty flexible to me also, 3 months is less than 120 days anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #73 August 19, 2006 Quotedude, I think you are wrong you said: My point was that you are asking riggers to pack a reserve with a component that will not make the 120-day cycle but you will not do that with a battery during a 4/8-year maintenance. but he said: what you are referring to is SSK's default procedure unless instructed otherwise by the rigger (...), but if you have a specific request or need, just talk to Eric at SSK sounds pretty flexible to me also, 3 months is less than 120 days anyway Yes, I know 3 months is less then 120 days. If I am not mistaken 120 days is right around 4 months If the life cycle of the Cypres will expire the day after the repack it is good for 3 more months. That to is less than 120 days. They want to replace the battery if it has less then 3 months left. But they want a rigger to pack a Cypres if it has less then 3 months left. Their manual does not say anything about “default procedure”. It says the battery will be replaced. The CYPRES battery will be replaced if its life time is up, or will end in less than 3 months. (The new battery is not included in the maintenance price) And my name is not "dude" like, you know.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZigZagMarquis 8 #74 August 20, 2006 dude, chill... err... I mean, Mike, doesn't it amaze you that there is a certain faction within this sport that is willing to pay thousands of dollars to learn to skydive... thousands more to purchase gear... and then when it comes to the maintenance of the no shit system / part of their gear that's really there to save their sorry ass when the shit hits the fan... the reserve and AAD (if they decide to have one)... their's a ceratain number of folks out there that want to go on the "cheap"... makes me laugh when I hear things like... "wa wa reserve repacks are too expensive"... "wa wa reserve repacks are too often, should be longer then 120 days" (hey, zippy, what do you think riggers are going to do if it goes to 180 or 365 days?)... "wa wa Cypres batteries are too expensive"... "wa wa Cypres drops dead after 12 years"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jonsmann 0 #75 August 20, 2006 I just had my reserve repacked and the Cypres will expire before the reserve is due for its next repack. My rigger just wrote on the reserve card that it expires on 31. December 2006. It would otherwise have said 18. February 2007. There is nothing magic about a repack cycle, a rigger can make it shorter if he chooses. Jacques Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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mjosparky 3 #58 August 17, 2006 Quoteand with the 1-year repack cycle in some countries, you are talking about robbing the CYPRES owner of up to 11 months of use! By the same token you are robbing the owner of up to 3 months of batter life. From Cypres Maintenance Information. Will the battery be replaced? The CYPRES battery will be replaced if its life time is up, or will end in less than 3 months. (The new battery is not included in the maintenance price) Why not just mark on the paper work when the battery is due and let the owner handle it?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #59 August 17, 2006 Quote Mel, help me out here, I still can not find the regulation that states that the rigger is responsible for the "120 day window" Cliff, I guess it would be common knowledge at the very least. If the rigger made a rigging error, the jumper was jumping from an airplane with the 120 pack cycle, and had a problem with it, do you not think the rigger would be responsible??? Everyone knows, including the FAA and general public, that a rigger is responsible for his or her work. QuoteQuote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Airtec could state that as long as the dates where good when closed, it would be valid through out the pack cycle. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm going to assume that you are joking here - because of the variables of repack vs. DOM and of the differing repack requirements around the world, No, I actually wasn't kidding. I was, in fact, speaking just for the USA market. We have the shortest repack cycle in the worid that I am aware of. The complance of the FAR's simply state that we have to maintain the AAD (if Installed) according to the manufacturer's instructions. A simple statement in the instructions regarding the US market would satisify the FAA reguirements. I know that probably is not going to happen for several reasons, but it would work. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #60 August 17, 2006 QuoteQuote Mel, help me out here, I still can not find the regulation that states that the rigger is responsible for the "120 day window" Cliff, I guess it would be common knowledge at the very least. If the rigger made a rigging error, the jumper was jumping from an airplane with the 120 pack cycle, and had a problem with it, do you not think the rigger would be responsible??? I think this is at the crux of the issue... I believe that if I make a mistake it may be revisited on me regardless of when it is found (day 1, 119, 121 or 500). However, I believe that my inspection is good only on the day I sign off on it. The airworthyness of the gear is the owner/wearer's responsibility (unfortunately this list also includes the PIC). Part of verifying that it is airworthy includes verifying that it has been "(A)IR'ed" within the last 120, that it hasn't been superglued, torn, shredded or hot-knifed by the ex-wife. Those factors beyond a rigger's control (after the rigger signs off on the inspection) are NOT the rigger's responsibility no matter how many days have past. Having said that, and having heard Cliff's statement, I will still only approve Cypres' with batteries and inspections that will last the length of the repack cycle UNLESS I have direct control over keeping the rig grounded after the unit has expired (until corrected). Too many owners will blindly take that the rig (barring damage) IS good for the entire 120. I also believe that in the last 20 years (especially the last 10), that the average jumper has become ignorant about their own gear. This is something we should work to counter. Just my $.02 JimAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #61 August 17, 2006 Quote Having said that, and having heard Cliff's statement, I will still only approve Cypres' with batteries and inspections that will last the length of the repack cycle UNLESS I have direct control over keeping the rig grounded after the unit has expired (until corrected). Too many owners will blindly take that the rig (barring damage) IS good for the entire 120. You can surely bet that if a jumper goes in with a rig that has a data card entry like you state, the heat is going to be on the rigger. I ask one question; what defense would you use in a court of law? You could not state a FAR or any other guidance that would allow you to do it because there are none. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #62 August 17, 2006 yep. I agree with this post. If date or batteries go out within 120 days. The aad is no good in the rig, legally. Stay out of HOT water. Sell him a new AAD or remove the out dated AAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #63 August 18, 2006 Repost Quoteand with the 1-year repack cycle in some countries, you are talking about robbing the CYPRES owner of up to 11 months of use! By the same token you are robbing the owner of up to 3 months of batter life. From Cypres Maintenance Information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Will the battery be replaced? The CYPRES battery will be replaced if its life time is up, or will end in less than 3 months. (The new battery is not included in the maintenance price) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why not just mark on the paper work when the battery is due and let the owner handle it?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSK 0 #64 August 18, 2006 good question! Quote Why not just mark on the paper work when the battery is due and let the owner handle it? what you are referring to is SSK's default procedure unless instructed otherwise by the rigger (most of the time it does not make sense to have the extra repack cost to squeeze out another couple months of battery life), but if you have a specific request or need, just talk to Eric at SSK - you can even send us a replacement battery that you happen to have in stock, it will be installed at no charge the paperwork (invoice that goes to the rigger, and test certificate that goes to the owner) state the battery replacement date, battery due date, and next maintenance due date info the good news is that with CYPRES 2 there are no battery-change issues to be concerned about! Cliff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #65 August 18, 2006 My point was that you are asking riggers to pack a reserve with a component that will not make the 120-day cycle but you will not do that with a battery during a 4/8-year maintenance.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marinho 0 #66 August 18, 2006 It seems to me that the most majority of riggers will not pack the AAD with the scenario I presented. Besides all the different interpretations of our FARs, I think it's very clear that whoever does that is taking a big chance to be in hot water. I still don't see any advantage of repack a system that have a component that will expire within the 120 days. Maybe we're forgetting the most important thing here, the user! My wife and I only use/sell cypres and we have our reasons for. I'd never use one (and I never did)that can first, give me trouble as a parachute rigger and second for not have piece of mind. Bottom line is safety is not measured by how much money you can save, but just following procedures that sometimes can cost a little more! People spend a lot of money buying their gear and as also a skydiver and a dealer, I understand how expensive can be. Well, thanks for all your inputs and I hope this discussion helped everybody to see this problem. I also hope that it'll be presented at the PIA for further discussions! Cheers,Gus Marinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #67 August 18, 2006 QuoteI also hope that it'll be presented at the PIA for further discussions! Cliff - did you add this to your list for Reno?Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #68 August 18, 2006 I JUST packed up a rig that will only last 2 more months due to the cypres expiring. I know the guy, he only jumps at my DZ and is VERY limited on funds. He knows the story and is in the process of looking for another unit. Options were to NOT pack it, and he doesn't jump, or do what I did and he gets another 2 months of fun. I will get the rig back and am not worried about it.....I hope. Not too mention, it's all written on the data card.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marinho 0 #69 August 18, 2006 QuoteI JUST packed up a rig that will only last 2 more months due to the cypres expiring. I know the guy, he only jumps at my DZ and is VERY limited on funds. He knows the story and is in the process of looking for another unit. Options were to NOT pack it, and he doesn't jump, or do what I did and he gets another 2 months of fun. I will get the rig back and am not worried about it.....I hope. Not too mention, it's all written on the data card. Cool, I also just packed a rig on the same condition you have. The only difference is that the AAD will expire in 3 months(before the 120 days rule), but I installed a new unit(cypres2). The customer also doesn't have a lot of money, but he knows all the advantages of this new unit. The customer, manufacturer and our company all benefit from this procedure. Simple like that!!! Cheers,Gus Marinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RIGGER 0 #70 August 18, 2006 Did you limited the repack cycle to 60 days or to the last day of the Cypres if it's ended before the 120 days cycle ??? did you make a copy of the data card for your files because the repack cycle is shorter ? safe Rigging !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marinho 0 #71 August 18, 2006 Hi Shlomi, I was waiting for your inputs on this issue! Come on, tell me what you think!!!!! Cheers,Gus Marinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybobskydive 0 #72 August 18, 2006 dude, I think you are wrong you said: My point was that you are asking riggers to pack a reserve with a component that will not make the 120-day cycle but you will not do that with a battery during a 4/8-year maintenance. but he said: what you are referring to is SSK's default procedure unless instructed otherwise by the rigger (...), but if you have a specific request or need, just talk to Eric at SSK sounds pretty flexible to me also, 3 months is less than 120 days anyway Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #73 August 19, 2006 Quotedude, I think you are wrong you said: My point was that you are asking riggers to pack a reserve with a component that will not make the 120-day cycle but you will not do that with a battery during a 4/8-year maintenance. but he said: what you are referring to is SSK's default procedure unless instructed otherwise by the rigger (...), but if you have a specific request or need, just talk to Eric at SSK sounds pretty flexible to me also, 3 months is less than 120 days anyway Yes, I know 3 months is less then 120 days. If I am not mistaken 120 days is right around 4 months If the life cycle of the Cypres will expire the day after the repack it is good for 3 more months. That to is less than 120 days. They want to replace the battery if it has less then 3 months left. But they want a rigger to pack a Cypres if it has less then 3 months left. Their manual does not say anything about “default procedure”. It says the battery will be replaced. The CYPRES battery will be replaced if its life time is up, or will end in less than 3 months. (The new battery is not included in the maintenance price) And my name is not "dude" like, you know.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #74 August 20, 2006 dude, chill... err... I mean, Mike, doesn't it amaze you that there is a certain faction within this sport that is willing to pay thousands of dollars to learn to skydive... thousands more to purchase gear... and then when it comes to the maintenance of the no shit system / part of their gear that's really there to save their sorry ass when the shit hits the fan... the reserve and AAD (if they decide to have one)... their's a ceratain number of folks out there that want to go on the "cheap"... makes me laugh when I hear things like... "wa wa reserve repacks are too expensive"... "wa wa reserve repacks are too often, should be longer then 120 days" (hey, zippy, what do you think riggers are going to do if it goes to 180 or 365 days?)... "wa wa Cypres batteries are too expensive"... "wa wa Cypres drops dead after 12 years"... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonsmann 0 #75 August 20, 2006 I just had my reserve repacked and the Cypres will expire before the reserve is due for its next repack. My rigger just wrote on the reserve card that it expires on 31. December 2006. It would otherwise have said 18. February 2007. There is nothing magic about a repack cycle, a rigger can make it shorter if he chooses. Jacques Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
