airtwardo 6 #26 July 2, 2006 QuoteHow many people voted for a given time because they had a reason or understood what goes on with a repack? *** Me ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #27 July 3, 2006 QuoteQuoteHow many people voted for a given time because they had a reason or understood what goes on with a repack? *** Me See what I mean.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bofh 0 #28 July 3, 2006 In Sweden the gear has to be properly inspected by a rigger every 12th month and the reserve has to repacked every 6th month. It was suggested that it should be extended to 12 months and have a visual inspection every 6th month (so the riggers would earn about as much ), but after some investigation it was turned down. The main reason was that many reserves would compress some more over time and after 12th months the force on the pin was considered too low in a few cases. Personally I know too little about the factors involved to have an opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #29 July 3, 2006 Quote Sweden the gear has to be properly inspected by a rigger every 12th month and the reserve has to repacked every 6th month. It was suggested that it should be extended to 12 months and have a visual inspection every 6th month (so the riggers would earn about as much ), but after some investigation it was turned down. The main reason was that many reserves would compress some more over time and after 12th months the force on the pin was considered too low in a few cases. what is the price for a repack vs a visual inspection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #30 July 3, 2006 I'm in Africa and currently (try to) conform with a 6 month reserve repack cycle on my two rigs. Fastest reserve opening I ever had was 3.5 years past it's 6 month repack date, or 4 years after packing. I had a Tandem reserve malfunction that was well within date. I think if you don't fall down a lot, one year seems to make a lot of sense. I marked 1 year on the poll. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #31 July 3, 2006 There are some points I would like to make. There is a distict difference between a rig that is left closed and sealed for 18 months and a rig that 2 or 3 times in that period of time is opened, freebag carefull removed from the pack tray, then all components visually inspected for signs of debris, contaminants, moisture, etc. then closed back up. Sometimes, because the AAD closing loop does elongate (called creep in fiber lingo), the loop can be shortened a bit or even replaced if there are any signs of fraying. I would never actually do this with my gear unless it were made legal to do so, but I would like to see an option such as this be discussed as an alternative to extending the complete A to Z repack cycle. Your canopy really doesn't get any real benefit or see any improvements by putting your hands all over it for no real reason other than to put it back just like it was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #32 July 3, 2006 QuoteThere are some points I would like to make. There is a distict difference between a rig that is left closed and sealed for 18 months and a rig that 2 or 3 times in that period of time is opened, freebag carefull removed from the pack tray, then all components visually inspected for signs of debris, contaminants, moisture, etc. then closed back up. Sometimes, because the AAD closing loop does elongate (called creep in fiber lingo), the loop can be shortened a bit or even replaced if there are any signs of fraying. I would never actually do this with my gear unless it were made legal to do so, but I would like to see an option such as this be discussed as an alternative to extending the complete A to Z repack cycle. Your canopy really doesn't get any real benefit or see any improvements by putting your hands all over it for no real reason other than to put it back just like it was. thanks for your reply. I think you are saying a year be ok with out opening. How about 2 years with a one year visual inspection inside? Or perhaps a 2 year repack with a 6 month visual inspection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dokeman 0 #33 July 3, 2006 I would only get a repack probably once a year, but I have no problems paying a little bit to get my shit inspected by a second set of eyes every few months or so. I think the rule should be mandatory inspections and a repack should be up to the riggers discression. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N24 0 #34 July 3, 2006 What's about a one year repack cycle, but with TWO riggers who ( pack/ inspect/ sign it ) ? I think that most reserve total mals are because of rigging errors... Some body told me about a 4-eye- principe in the comercial fleight-... so why not in skydiving :-) N24 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #35 July 4, 2006 If you get two dummies you'll have twice the chance for a mis-rig . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Armour666 0 #36 July 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteI know I'm new to the sport but I'll stick to the 4 month cycle here in Canada. We have a 6 month cycle in Canada. my number dyslexia again I was counting out 180 and came up with 4 months. go figure , thats why I have an accountant If I did my taxs with that math I'd be in jail by now SO this one time at band camp..... "Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #37 July 4, 2006 A master rigger friend of mine had a reserve that he pencil packed for five and a half years. After that he wanted to see if it would still work. So he strapped on a chest mount and jumped his reserve. He said that it snivelled a little bit but eventually decided to open. After hearing that and seeing personally how parachutes that have been packed for a long period of time, I have no problem packing my reserve every six months (Canada). Since I pack my own reserve for myself I wouldn't have a problem going for a year. Longer than that I wouldn't do. The six month repack (Canada) I think is good, especially if you have an AAD. Depending on how the rig is stored and what kind of conditions it is subjected too, the batteries can do strange things. I have heard of Cypress batteries exploding in gear that was improperly stored. Also, that airing out time can greatly affect how much the pack is stuck together. Therefore the opening time.When it comes to a reserve, if I can have a canopy opened up 100 feet higher, it is worth it to me. The amount of money it costs to repack a reserve is not a lot. When you think that the money goes to an underpaid over worked rigger, it is worth. Just my $0.02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bofh 0 #38 July 4, 2006 Repack + inspection costs around 600 SEK in Sweden and just a repack 500 SEK. I guess an inspection would be more expensive than the 100 SEK difference that is common today, but less than the 500 SEK a repack costs. 100 SEK is around 13.75 USD with yesterday's exchange rate at google. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TV1 0 #39 July 4, 2006 Here in germany we have a repack-cycle of maximum 1 year. The cycle is given from the manufacturer. If a manufacturer wants a shorter cyle so it is... Personally I have no problem with one year. And all the reserves I inspectes with a one year repack cycle works properly. - But we have here "normal" weather conditions. In other climates it could be a shorter cycle the better way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #40 July 4, 2006 Quote But we have here "normal" weather conditions. What do you consider normal? Jump conditions here in South Africa are probably from 0 C (Exit in winter) to 35 C. (Landing in Summer) On the ground, probably between 15 - 35 C, with 90% being 22 - 28 C. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TV1 0 #41 July 4, 2006 Ok - you are right, Tonto... what is normal...? What I mean is that the climate is one piece in the puzzle you must think for... High humidity, dust, hot dry or a damp climate may have effects on the "pack-conditons". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #42 July 4, 2006 When I see Northern Hemisphere temps from -30 to plus 30... I wonder why you guys stay there! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #43 July 4, 2006 Why do you think that the southern is better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #44 July 4, 2006 Less tempreture range? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #45 July 4, 2006 QuoteThe amount of money it costs to repack a reserve is not a lot. When you think that the money goes to an underpaid over worked rigger, it is worth. For me it's more about wear to the reserve than the money. QuoteI have heard of Cypress batteries exploding in gear that was improperly stored. the only one i heard of was a battery that was removed and tossed on the table. QuoteAlso, that airing out time can greatly affect how much the pack is stuck together. Therefore the opening time.When it comes to a reserve, if I can have a canopy opened up 100 feet higher, it is worth it to me. Have we seen a increase in german deaths since they went to yearly repacks? I have heard this said but have not seen it proven. but then again your jump season is how long up there? We jump year round in florida. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #46 July 4, 2006 QuoteFor me it's more about wear to the reserve than the money. The wear on a reserve is so little during a repack that there shouldn't be anything to worry about there. I have seen 20+ year reserves that have no significant after repacks. I also have vintage gear that I jump as regularly as I can and the reserves are still fine and some are 30 years old. Quotethe only one i heard of was a battery that was removed and tossed on the table. I know of the story that you are referring to. That is because the gear that batteries came out of, now belongs to my DZO. There is a lot of stuff that doesn't get published down south that happens. QuoteHave we seen a increase in german deaths since they went to yearly repacks? I have heard this said but have not seen it proven. I am not trying to imply anything of this nature. I am simply stating that if I can have a reserve open faster and higher I would like that. Quotebut then again your jump season is how long up there? We jump year round in florida. My jump season is as long as I make it. It might get cold here in the winter but that doesn't stop me from travelling or doing winter jumps. It takes some real diehards to jump in the middle of winter when it is -20 on the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigger_john 0 #47 July 4, 2006 QuoteThe wear on a reserve is so little during a repack that there shouldn't be anything to worry about there. All the research I've seen indicates that almost all the damage to reserves including wear is caused during repacks. so much so that one report refered to in the PIA/USPA application for a reserve repack extention to a 6 month cycle, says that as few as 19 repack can cause wear in the fabric to the extent that it would fail permability test required for it meet the PIA spec. Other report indicate that even fairly new reserves after relativley few repacks have altered flight caracteristics, worth thinking about if you have a tiny reserve!_________________________________________ Nullius in Verba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #48 July 4, 2006 You forgot the "X months and Y jumps" option. All inspection schedules are written with the goal of finding damage when it is still minor (i.e. fraying), but before it becomes life-threatening. I would like to see a schedule that required an inspection within "180 days or 200 jumps." Inspection frequency varies widely depending upon the environment. For example, a Californian who does 350 jumps per year in sandy, salty deserts wears out his gear far faster than a Canadian who does 50 jumps per year in grasslands. Since Canada converted to a 180 day repack cycle, there has been an insignificant increase in fatalities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #49 July 4, 2006 QuoteAll the research I've seen indicates that almost all the damage to reserves including wear is caused during repacks. so much so that one report refered to in the PIA/USPA application for a reserve repack extention to a 6 month cycle, says that as few as 19 repack can cause wear in the fabric to the extent that it would fail permability test required for it meet the PIA spec. Other report indicate that even fairly new reserves after relativley few repacks have altered flight caracteristics, worth thinking about if you have a tiny reserve! I think regarding all this there is more factors than just repacking a reserve in the equation. Depending on location, type of environment and who is packing all has part of it. With the 19 repacks can cause wear in to the extent that it would fail permability. Is this an average or is this happening to a few. I think that the big word here is "can". I think that if this is that big on the safety measure that repacks are causing this much damage, then we should be bringing in regs that prevent reserves to be used after so many repacks or so many years regardless, if they have been used or not. If the flight characteristics are being altered that much because of repacks, I tnink a safety alert should be popping up is these characteristics are to the point of being extreme. I know people, despite being against the regs, have been using old raven mains as their reserves. They still fly. Tolerances for these characteristics are much smaller as the canopy size decreases. How much damage can occur from using a reserve or better yet not using one because it hasn't been inspected? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #50 July 4, 2006 some details can be read here http://www.pia.com/piapubs/pia180_2.pdf look about page page 5 to 7. The PD report says repacks wear caused slower reserve inflation by increasing porosity..... _______________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
