Sabre2 Canopy for a newbie?

[damion75 0]

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They really wanted me to try the Pilot and told me that compared to the Sabre2 it was "turnier" up high but much easier to land, but in favor of keeping my jumpsuit a non-brown color I refused since the turny up high is what scared me.

Perspective is an interesting thing - according to PD, the Spectre is more 'turnier up high' than the Sabre2!

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Toggle turns on the Spectre feel similar to those on the Sabre2, although you may notice some differences. A Sabre2 requires less toggle input to start and maintain a turn, while the Spectre actually turns in a tighter radius.

That said, I had a Spectre for my first canopy and it was a great canopy to learn on! Enjoy...

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[doorgirl 0]

Perspective really does vary. That's what makes life so interesting and fun.

I think I felt more connected to the Spectre when it turned. Does that make sense? The moderately aggressive turns (on a similar level w/ Sabre2, Pilot, etc apparently) are why the turns felt "divier" compared to my PD210 the first weekend I jumped Spectre, but the feeling of connection with the wing is probably what made that not feel scary 'til I was close to the ground. Yes I know how to flat turn, but a step up in turn performance/alt loss increased the pucker factor when considering them low (100-150) though.

That feeling of connection was stronger with the Spectre than the Sabre2 for me, which is probably why the Sabre2 scared me and the Spectre felt perfect for me. I felt like it would be easier for me to get myself into trouble with the Sabre2, and I would have more confidence to avoid trouble with the Spectre. BTW, flat turning or flare turning as a final small (0-45 deg) adjustment is in my Spectre bag-o-tricks now. If you're too skeered to turn your canopy, you may as well be under a round. (Or so says the 58 jump wonder.)

Please take my opinions as what they are, opinions. Like Goldilocks taught us, everyone has a different "just right".

[MrBrant 0]

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Perspective is an interesting thing

I agree.

I jumped a sabre2 190, and I thought it turned like shit! Felt like I was driving a boat (and I was loading it pretty good...)

I did really like the flare power though - I was able to surf further on it than my Pilot. (that's probably mostly technique though - I'm probably better with the Pilot now)

Although this was just an assessment of 1 jump on the canopy (by a guy who hasn't jumped many canopies) and might not be accurate.


Trying out different canopies is the only way to determine what works for YOU.

I just wish we could get demos up here in Canada......

[Fast 0]

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Saber 2s are NOT known for hard openings. The people who say they are typically have either, confused them with a saber 1, or are buying into what someones brothers second cousin told them.

The saber2 is one of the most popular canopies on the market. ALL canopies can smack you with a hard opening now and then. There are just that many more saber 2s out there that you hear about it a little more. Do a search on this, you will find it has been posted about COUNTLESS times.

Dude, you are preaching to the choir.

Maybe you should read my post before you respond to it

First off, I did not say that Sabre2's are known for hard openings,
I said that I have heard people say that they are.

I also clearly state that I do not agree with those that say that in spite of one very hard opening that I did experience on a Sabre2.
I attributed that to packing error.

People DO say it. I believe they are wrong, but like it or not they do say it.

I was just expanding on what you were saying.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[P-dro 0]

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I dont happen to agree though. I had two of them and neither of them were hard opening canopies.

I did have one SERIOUSLY hard opening on a Sabre2 190 that actually grounded me for a couple months but I firmly believe that it was a packing issue and not something specific to Sabre2's

I have had several hard opening and one very hard on my Sabre2 in the span of 50 jumps. All the normal opening were off heading (asymetric inflation of end cells).
Therefore I am currently considering other options for my next canopy, to my regret because the flight performance and landing are really top notch...

[ChrisL 2]

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Therefore I am currently considering other options for my next canopy, to my regret because the flight performance and landing are really top notch...

I did get those off heading openings quite often on both of my sabre2's

I'm currently jumping a Pilot and I'm very happy with it.

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My mighty steed

[popsjumper 2]

First off...get away from the "experienced" jumpers and take advice ONLY from your instructors.

(yeah I'm not your instructor but here I am giving advice.)

I'm sure they will offer you something nice and docile like a Triathlon or a Spectre...save the Pilot for later.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[MrBrant 0]

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I'm sure they will offer you something nice and docile like a Triathlon or a Spectre...save the Pilot for later.

Is the Pilot not designed to be a beginner canopy at lighter wing loadings?
I thought it was more-or-less a ZP version of their (Aerodyne's) student canopy?

[Fast 0]

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I'm sure they will offer you something nice and docile like a Triathlon or a Spectre...save the Pilot for later.

Is the Pilot not designed to be a beginner canopy at lighter wing loadings?
I thought it was more-or-less a ZP version of their (Aerodyne's) student canopy?

*sigh*


The pilot is a perfectly good canopy for a begining skydiver. I don't know why pops is saying it isn't. Maybe if he didn't have a bullshit profile people might know where his experience level is.

On a side note, I have always felt that if you are going to come on here giving advice, to new jumpers at that, you should have the decency to be honest in your profile.


Blue Skies,

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[bob.dino 0]

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I'm sure they will offer you something nice and docile like a Triathlon or a Spectre...save the Pilot for later.

Is the Pilot not designed to be a beginner canopy at lighter wing loadings?

Yup. Not a student canopy, but a definitely suitable as a novice canopy.

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I thought it was more-or-less a ZP version of their (Aerodyne's) student canopy?

Dunno.

[Fab 0]

My first canopy I bought was a pilot 170. Jumped a lot of student and rental gear before that.

I now have a sabre2.

A pilot is a good canopy for a newbie in the appropiate size.

Don't buy a canopy before you have demoed one. Demo some canopies and then make your choice which you like the best.

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[phoenixlpr 0]

I've bought my Pilot without demo or regret .

[Ron 7]

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The pilot is a perfectly good canopy for a begining skydiver

*Sigh*

That all depends on a bunch of stuff. Your blanket approval could be dangerous.

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On a side note, I have always felt that if you are going to come on here giving advice, to new jumpers at that, you should have the decency to be honest in your profile.

Agreed. But at what point do you earn the right to give advice?

Does a filled out profile trump an empty one? Does my AFF rating trump your Coach? Does my 3800 jumps trump your 700?

Does that mean your advice is not good? Nope, Sabres and Pilots can be a good canopy for a new jumper. But I happen to agree with Pops that a Tri or Spectre is a better choice all things being the same (WL, skillset...ect).

So is giving advice a matter of qualifications, communication of qualifications, or the advice itself?

In this case Pops advice is pretty good and copies mine. Does that mean you are wrong since my profile is filled out and I have more "stuff"? Or does that just mean we differ in opinions?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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I am in the process of looking for my own gear. I however have had VERY mixed opinions on what canopy I should buy and it is really starting to confuse me somewhat.

#1 quit listening to people on here. You never know who they are, what the have for experience, or who is paying them. We had a guy on here saying that a one canopy he sold was perfect for both Pro swoopers and as a student canopy.

Listen to your instructors and riggers who know and care about you.....You can also listen to the "names" Germain, Scott Miller...ect with some confidence. Everyone else is suspect....Including me.

#2. People often try to tell you that what they are selling is perfect for you. I knew an INSTRUCTOR that sold a student a Stiletto. He had one to sell, so he sold it. He told the student he would be fine.

#3. People often put their own fears into you. Some folks *like me* think that jumping a bigger canopy that is docile for maybe too long is way better than jumping a little too small of a canopy. Don't confuse this with not knowing. I have jumped a Xbraced 69, and a bunch of other stuff....I just think it makes more sense to wait to swoop like your hair is on fire till you are SURE to be OK. Others seem to take the track that you should get a higher performance than you are comfertable and you will grow into it.

I think thats bad. Just look at the risk/reward or ROI. In my plan you don't have an exciting canopy ride. On some others plans you risk getting hurt or killed. I would rather you be bored than broken.

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I would say I am not a bad canopy pilot, I land pretty much where I want to, I am pretty conservative under canopy. As for being a female and having height and spatial awarness issues I would say I don't, infact I know I don't, so that is not an issue for me.

Are you willing to bet your life on "not bad, and pretty much"?

When in doubt, play it safe, you will live longer.

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Life expands and contracts in proportion to your courage.

Surviving makes it so you can have courage.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Fast 0]

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The pilot is a perfectly good canopy for a begining skydiver

*Sigh*

That all depends on a bunch of stuff. Your blanket approval could be dangerous.

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On a side note, I have always felt that if you are going to come on here giving advice, to new jumpers at that, you should have the decency to be honest in your profile.

Agreed. But at what point do you earn the right to give advice?

Does a filled out profile trump an empty one? Does my AFF rating trump your Coach? Does my 3800 jumps trump your 700?

Does that mean your advice is not good? Nope, Sabres and Pilots can be a good canopy for a new jumper. But I happen to agree with Pops that a Tri or Spectre is a better choice all things being the same (WL, skillset...ect).

So is giving advice a matter of qualifications, communication of qualifications, or the advice itself?

In this case Pops advice is pretty good and copies mine. Does that mean you are wrong since my profile is filled out and I have more "stuff"? Or does that just mean we differ in opinions?

Yeah, I will conceed that I wrote the reply quickly w/o the caveat of "at this wingloading, with this prior progression" etc. In general, at a reasonable wing loading (what is reasonable? this could go on, 1:1 or less for the sake of this conversation on the internet), for the average novice skydiver, I think the pilot is a perfectly reasonable choice.

Not in and of itself no. I think that a profile that is honest gives the person reading the advice something to use as a base of experience. Am I getting advice from some student with 10 jump, another newbie with 100, just an experienced guy with x hundred/thousand, an instructor, etc.

I think that anyone can give advice, however when you are doing so at least present honest information in your profile so the person reading it can have a clue who you are and why they should or should not follow your advice. I recognize that people can put anything down on these profiles, in that regard it's buyer beware!

Yeah your AFF rating gives you much more creditability, so does your 3K + more jumps than me, and your X more years in the sport. That doesn't make me wrong in and of itself. It just means you might be a better person to listen to.

I think that giving advice, in general, on any topic (skydiving and not) has to do with qualifications, the proper presentation of said qualifications, and a good presentation of the advice at hand.


There are certainly things that I have posted on here that I have been wrong about and had to go back on my statements. In this case I think we just differ in opinion. I also think in this specific case we are splitting hairs. A tri or a spectre might be a better choice, but just writing the pilot off as an unacceptable canopy for a novice skydiver is jumping to conclusions, at least in my personal opinion.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[BannanaGirl 0]

Hello everyone,

First I would like to say thanks for the advice I recieved on this thread, it did help a lot in my hunt for a rig and canopy that is suitable for me.

I finally bought myself second hand gear (funds required for a skydiving holiday in a couple of months!), so custom was aborted. Apart from being the 170 sized canopy I was looking for it was an amazing fit on the harness, as if it had been made for me!

I ended up with a Sabre 170. So far so good. Infact I actually find the thing a lot easier to land than the big old student canopy, far more responsive and enjoyable to fly and play with. It has actually opened my eyes up to a whole new part of my skydiving and how much fun canopy flight can be.....I can sense a swooper maybe growing inside of me yet!!!

As for those apparent "spanky" openings, again so far so good, really really sweet and I would say my body position is not the best at opening times.

I am going to wring the guts out of this baby and then maybe downsize again when I am ready and then I can get custom at the 300+ mark or so, which hopefully will be in a year or so.

This is it...I'm bitten, I'm in love. HELP!

Thanks guys.

Stay safe

Di

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[monkycndo 0]

I've put 300 on my Sabre 170. It has treated me nicely. I just don't want her to know that I have a new Sabre2 150 on order. She might get jealous and want to take a little revenge.

Glad you found a canopy that works for you.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity