Do you believe in Ghosts/Spirits

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

I think ghosts is just a word that's been used to refer to spirits, or perhaps more specifically the visual perception of them.

to me they are spirits which I also interchange frequently with the word energy

[quade 3]

I can almost understand the undecideds on this, but in the "yes" and "no" categories, well, one of those numbers is just disturbing no matter how you look at it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Conundrum 1]

Quote

Not sure about the first one, except that it is possible for something like that to be a coincidence - there could have been someone with a strong resemblance to the deceased, and dressed the same way. As unlikely as that may seem, is it really more likely that somebody would be hanging around the back yard after they're dead, and wearing the clothes they were buried in?

There was no one walking around the backyard. The ghostly figure didn't even look "ghostly". Just like a regular person, except they walked through the backdoor without opening it and then was no where to be found.

Quote

As for the second, that relies on the absolute certainty that nobody had ever mentioned the uncle. People have bad memories. And kids do talk to themselves all the time.

That I can see as a possibility.

Quote

Not trying to be difficult - I just think that the desire to believe in ghosts is very strong for a lot of people, especially those who've lost loved ones, and we find it easy to persuade ourselves of things that support our desires. The more we tell the story, the more little details we subconsciously add to make it more compelling.

I can see that also as a possibility. Someone who has lost a loved one could be very desperate to see the deceased, but not a 6 year old and a 12 year old who have no experience with death and who are playing in a backyard and suddenly see someone.

[Conundrum 1]

Quote

I can almost understand the undecideds on this, but in the "yes" and "no" categories, well, one of those numbers is just disturbing no matter how you look at it.

Which number?

[iamsam 0]

Constructive comment. I take it you voted no.

but what do I know

[jakee 1,259]

No.

There is no seperate entity of being called the 'soul'. When your neurons stop firing, you're gone. Dead is dead.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

there will ALWAYS be non-believers, and we have to respect their views if we ever hope to have them respect ours, no matter the topic.

I respect a non-believer's views. I would just like to hear the explainations for which she discredits believers.

I'm afraid you've got it backwards.

If I believe that pigs can fly, and you don't, the burden is on me to prove it; not on you to disprove it. Same goes for whether there are monsters hiding under my bed, or whether there really are super-powers like Superman, or whether a rabbit's foot really does bring genuine good luck, or whether Santa Claus - not his helper at the mall, but the guy who has genuine flying reindeer - really does exist outside of fantasy or imagination.

Yet, dub certain beliefs "spiritual" or "religious", and have them believed-in by adults, and not just children, and somehow that exempts them from this basic rule.

Well, no. People who believe in ghosts and spirits have the burden of proving they exist; non-believers do not have the burden of "explaining" why they don't.

[quade 3]

Quote

Quote

I can almost understand the undecideds on this, but in the "yes" and "no" categories, well, one of those numbers is just disturbing no matter how you look at it.

Which number?

Which ever side the reader didn't vote for.

I guess it's all a matter of how you view the world and how many people you think are delusional. In either case and from either viewpoint, the numbers are disturbing.

Does 55ish percent think 35ish are delusional or the other way round?

In the point I'm bringing up, it almost doesn't matter which is which. It's just pointing out that there seems to be a fundamental difference in beliefs and of course, only one point of view can actually be correct, which means that either 35ish percent or 55ish percent actually are, in fact, delusional. Not exactly an insignificant number ANY way you look at it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I guess it's all a matter of how you view the world and how many people you think are delusional. In either case and from either viewpoint, the numbers are disturbing.

Does 60ish percent think 40ish are delusional or the other way round?

I think you are all delusional, this is MY reality

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Conundrum 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

there will ALWAYS be non-believers, and we have to respect their views if we ever hope to have them respect ours, no matter the topic.

I respect a non-believer's views. I would just like to hear the explainations for which she discredits believers.

I'm afraid you've got it backwards.

If I believe that pigs can fly, and you don't, the burden is on me to prove it; not on you to disprove it. Same goes for whether there are monsters hiding under my bed, or whether there really are super-powers like Superman, or whether a rabbit's foot really does bring genuine good luck, or whether Santa Claus - not his helper at the mall, but the guy who has genuine flying reindeer - really does exist outside of fantasy or imagination.

Yet, dub certain beliefs "spiritual" or "religious", and have them believed-in by adults, and not just children, and somehow that exempts them from this basic rule.

Well, no. People who believe in ghosts and spirits have the burden of proving they exist; non-believers do not have the burden of "explaining" why they don't.

Maybe you didn't read where she stated there is an exaplanation for people seeing or hearing things. I asked for that explanation for my experiences, which turned out not to really even be an "explanation".

I am not interested in "proving" what I have seen is real, because I can't. I can't go back into the past and videotape it, and I don't have physical evidence of any kind. I have my memory of what happened that day, and I know what I saw.

It's okay if people don't believe, that is completely and totally up to them.

[Conundrum 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I can almost understand the undecideds on this, but in the "yes" and "no" categories, well, one of those numbers is just disturbing no matter how you look at it.

Which number?

Which ever side the reader didn't vote for.

I guess it's all a matter of how you view the world and how many people you think are delusional. In either case and from either viewpoint, the numbers are disturbing.

Does 55ish percent think 35ish are delusional or the other way round?

In the point I'm bringing up, it almost doesn't matter which is which. It's just pointing out that there seems to be a fundamental difference in beliefs and of course, only one point of view can actually be correct, which means that either 35ish percent or 55ish percent actually are, in fact, delusional. Not exactly an insignificant number ANY way you look at it.

That is very interesting when you really think about it. It would also be interesting to know how many of the believers believe because they are religious (ot not).

[RALFFERS 0]

I've had 1 too many experiences NOT to Believe... I've also spent a lot of time trying to tell myself that these experiences were in fact not real, however, after much thought I concluded that in order to deny what I experienced is to be illogical & irrational. It's funny, some would say that I'm illogical & irrational for believing, however I'm not out to prove anything to anyone - I'm simply sharing...

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

Quote

only one point of view can actually be correct, which means that either 35ish percent or 55ish percent actually are, in fact, delusional.

perhaps this is way off, but in my short time on this planet, I have witenessed many situations where two parties experience the exact same thing, yet believe something different from eachother.

Belief itself is perception, so how can there be a wrong or a right answer to this question???

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

Quote

Well, no. People who believe in ghosts and spirits have the burden of proving they exist; non-believers do not have the burden of "explaining" why they don't.

I would only add that this is only the case if someone is trying to CONVINCE you of something that goes against your own better judgement.. and not just because they happen to believe something different than you do.

But honestly, no one has to prove anything to anyone. This life is YOUR journey.. do with it what you want, seek out the answers you like, evolve or don't. The only one in life we have to prove anything to is ourselves.

[RALFFERS 0]

Quote

Belief itself is perception, so how can there be a wrong or a right answer to this question???

Just as a believer wants his/her beliefs to be true, so does does the non-believer - desire in both of those beliefs sets the stage for how 2 people can interpret an identical situation differently. However, this still doesn't change the fact that 1 party is correct while the other is not.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

to what end though?

the glass is half full or half empty
you and i experience the exact same lunch, I thought it was fantastic, you thought it was horrible

the glass has a certain number of oz. this cannot be argued
the lunch was comprised of certain ingredients this cannot be argued

but how you or I feel about those experiences can be VASTLY different

[happythoughts 0]

Reintarnation - when you come back as a hillbilly.

Ghosts, reincarnation, heaven, life after death.

Living beings strive to exist. Some believe in the metaphysical, some have kids to project their genes into the future.

Struggle as they may, dead is dead. No solution to that.

[sunshine 2]

Quote

Or spend a night at the Eastern State Penitentiary

Ya know, i just mentioned to val earlier today that i wanted to go there.

Edited to say...val doesn't wanna go...anyone else wanna go with me?

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

Quote

Reintarnation - when you come back as a hillbilly.

that's HILARIOUS

[RALFFERS 0]

Quote

to what end though?

the glass is half full or half empty
you and i experience the exact same lunch, I thought it was fantastic, you thought it was horrible

the glass has a certain number of oz. this cannot be argued
the lunch was comprised of certain ingredients this cannot be argued

but how you or I feel about those experiences can be VASTLY different

I understand what you're trying to say...

You & can have eaten the same thing for lunch, however, taste is a matter of preference - you may of thought it was great & I thought it was horrible, or vise versa. The outcome was different - yes - but the fact remains that the food you & I ate was real; you know you touched & tasted it, just may not of cared for it. The same type of analogy could be illustrated in other ways. For example, I may love to drive Ford Mustangs and listen to Pink Floyd; while you may despise American cars & classic rock as your music genre of chice - nevertheless, all those things are real & effect people in some (albeit different) way(s).

It is really no different when discussing things that are spiritual in nature. If we both witness the appearance of a "spirit" I may perceive it as affirmation of my beliefs, while you may perceive it otherwise. You can say: "dude, how could you think that lunch was tasty?" just like you can: "dude, how can you believe in ghosts?" Nevertheless, if we both experience the same thing it must be real.

I have some deeper thoughts on this subject, but don't want to send this to speakers corner. PM me, if anything.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[RALFFERS 0]

Quote

Quote

Or spend a night at the Eastern State Penitentiary

Ya know, i just mentioned to val earlier today that i wanted to go there.

Edited to say...val doesn't wanna go...anyone else wanna go with me?

I'm game.

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[MagicGuy 0]

I would also love to go to Eastern State. If that doesn't confirm my suspicions, I don't know if anything will!

[RALFFERS 0]

Quote

I would also love to go to Eastern State. If that doesn't confirm my suspicions, I don't know if anything will!

Can we make it a field-trip and ride a big yellow school bus there?...

Dialogue/commentary between Divot, Twardo & myself -

"from your first Oshkosh when the three of us were riding to or from one of

[sunshine 2]

Quote

I would also love to go to Eastern State. If that doesn't confirm my suspicions, I don't know if anything will!

I was looking into it a few days ago. Their website has lots of information. You can actually spend the night there and stuff, though i'm thinking i just want the tour...no need for me to spend the night. Tis a 13hr drive for me which is why i was trying to get someone to ride with me... However it would still be nice to find someone that lives reasonable close that would let a super awesome skychick crash at their place.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Vallerina 2]

Quote

Maybe you didn't read where she stated there is an exaplanation for people seeing or hearing things. I asked for that explanation for my experiences, which turned out not to really even be an "explanation".

The explanation for your experiences is that it's due to faulty memories and the fact that human's perceptions are easily deceived. No one can explain exactly what happened in that exact circumstance, but likely things include asking the kids leading questions (a tactic psychics use), one of the kids using the power of suggestion over the other, forgetting that the kids actually did hear about the dead guy, or the kids are lying. The argument that what you saw/experienced can't be explained therefore it must be supernatural is known as (I believe) ad ignorantiam, a very popular logical fallacy.

From my personal experience, years ago I also experienced "supernatural" things, and I believed that they were at first. In high school, I started researching it more, and it turns out that there are scientific and psychological explanations for the supernatural. It's fascinating to learn about how (for a lack of better phrasing) the brain can trick us.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning