Any Plumbers here?

[Nightingale 0]

If anyone can tell me how to fix this, I'd greatly appreciate it!

Since I've moved in, I've had the damndest time getting a hot shower! It's usually slightly warm at best. The association says it's not their problem to fix, since I can get hot water out of the sink taps. The shower controls are a single knob that twists. Temperature and pressure are tied together, unfortunately.

So today, I'm in the shower and my neighbor flushes his toilet. The shower water turns hot for about thirty seconds. I start thinking there might be something to this, so I reach over and flush the toilet. The water turns hot again. So, desperate for a hot shower, I pull the lid off the toilet tank and make the toilet run continuously. and the shower water stays hot!

Now, this is a horrific waste of water and I don't want to have to do it again. So, can someone tell me how I can get hot water out of my shower?

[riddler 0]

Not a plumber, so making a guess. It sounds like the control for your shower is letting cold water through, even when you have it turned to hot. When the toilet flushes, less of that cold water can get to the shower, so it's finally hot. If I'm right, only a replacement of the control for the shower will fix the problem.

Edit - depending on the model of the control, there may also be an internal adjustment, but you may have to take it apart to find it. Also, some manufacturers offer a lifetime replacement - I once called a company that made my sink faucet, as it was leaking out of the turn knob, and they sent me a free replacement of the entire faucet.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Squeak 17]

since it is a single handles hot/cold tap (a flick mixer) it would seem the setting for the mixer is allowing to much cold through, it needs to be adjusted to allow more hot through.
It's usually just a matter of rotating the valve around to allow more hot water. but i dont know your system.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[popsjumper 2]

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...The association says it's not their problem to fix, since I can get hot water out of the sink taps.

Actually, that is a reason that makes it their problem. THEY are responsible for what's going on inside the walls, not you.

Faulty valve? Their problem.
Trash in the hot water line blocking flow? Their problem.

I mention trash in the line because that was the problem in our new house...trash in the line got caught at the valve and was blocking water flow. Took the handle off, opened up the valve and removed the trash. (Be sure to turn off the water before you remove the valve.)

And, BTW...WTF. You neighbor on the same hot water line as you? Sharing a water heater? You need to get a decent place instead of such a cheap one. Oh, maybe you live in a tenament with a boiler in the basement.


Good thinking on solving a problem though.

Don't want to waste water? Do your laundry in cold water and shower while the washer tub is filling.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Squeak 17]

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And, BTW...WTF. You neighbor on the same hot water line as you? Sharing a water heater? You need to get a decent place instead of such a cheap one.

from her description the hot water is NOT shared the cold water line is.
When the toilet is flush it DECREASES the amount of cold water, therefore allowing the shower water to get hotter.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Katzeye 0]

I would find the water heater and turn up the dial that sets how hot to keep the water in the tank.

Is a chicken omelette redundant?

[Nightingale 0]

The hot and cold water lines are both shared. I live in a very nice condo that has shared boilers on the roof. I don't have any hot water problems except in the shower, so it sounds like what you guys were saying: the problem is in the way the shower is regulating the water. I will call the association today and see what they say.

[Nightingale 0]

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Good thinking on solving a problem though.

Don't want to waste water? Do your laundry in cold water and shower while the washer tub is filling.

I don't have a washing machine in my unit yet. I tried turning on the sink water, but it didn't have the same effect on the shower. I'm guessing the toilet uses more cold water?

[Squeak 17]

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I don't have a washing machine in my unit yet. I tried turning on the sink water, but it didn't have the same effect on the shower. I'm guessing the toilet uses more cold water?

it will also depend on whether the sink is upstream or down stream of the shower

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Nightingale 0]

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I don't have a washing machine in my unit yet. I tried turning on the sink water, but it didn't have the same effect on the shower. I'm guessing the toilet uses more cold water?

it will also depend on whether the sink is upstream or down stream of the shower

The bathroom is set up as: sink, toilet, shower, all on the same wall.

[PhreeZone 15]

Usually the way a bathroom is plumbed is that the hot and cold water lines run straight to the shower from the boiler but on the way they have T's and branch off the hotand cold to the sink and then the cold to the toliet. Usually is it 3/4 inch copper that runs to the shower and it has a 3/4 inch T for the Toliet but it only has a 1/2 inch pipe branching off to the sink. 3/4 going to the sink would have so much pressure and volume of water that the sink would splash out every time it was turned on.

The Cold to the toliet is about 4-6 feet down the pipe from where it mixes with hot in the shower line, the sink is 8-10 feet away, this allows more volume to backfill the pipe and keep a steady volume of water in the pipe. A flush of the toliet will suddenly drop the cold water pressure past the T junction for the toliet and will result in the shower losing some cold water and the temperature of it going up. If you and your neighbor share pipes then you can assume that the hotwater line is working and the issue is in your shower or else he'd be complaining also. Replacing a shower control is not a 1 on the ease of home repair scale but it is not a 10 either. Depending on the exact controls you have it might be as easy as turning off the water, removing the handles, pulling the controls out, replacing them and putting it back together. If its that easy you are looking at 20-30 minutes work and the need to use a screwdriver, a phillips screwdriver and a core pulling tool ($7-10 that you can return as soon as you are done). A new control core might run you $50 or less. Then again if this was a unit built in the 60-70's and original then its a fairly major issue to replace them since you might have to cut copper on the wall to put in a new unit.

Look at the controls and find the brand, Google it and fin the model and start your research there. If its a newer model check the big box stores (Lowes, Home Depot, Menards) to see if they have replacement controls for that model. If so then you can usually replace it with not much effort, if you can't find the brand or model call a plumber.


PhreeZone - Not a plumber but someone that replumbed 2 bathrooms so far in his house

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Nightingale 0]

Wow! Thanks!!!

The place was built around '78.

[novacaine 0]

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Wow! Thanks!!!

The place was built around '78.

Since the building was built in '78, there is a good possibility (almost 100%) that it is the mixer valve, like others have suggested.
With a building this old, it is possible that the mixing valve has succumbed to a build up of calcium caused by hard water.
I would suggest following PhreeZone's advise and go to one of the box stores to find a replacement.

Note: I am not a plumber... though I interact with plumbers at work all the time

[warpedskydiver 0]

If your place was built that long ago, there would not have been a mixer installed to stop scalding, unless it was replaced, by your description of the toilet flush making it get hotter, there is not one installed.

That being said, you might prefer getting a new valve, as well as a set tools and supplies like, a set of channel locks, a pipe cutter, a MAP gas torch, solder and flux, teflon tape and something fireproof to put behind the soldered joints so you don't burn the place down.

[cocheese 0]

Can we take a shower together so i can get an accurate diagnosis of the problem?

[Nightingale 0]

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Can we take a shower together so i can get an accurate diagnosis of the problem?

Um... no.

[cocheese 0]

Well then, there is your problem. Warm water starts from the heart.

[DavidB 0]

If it truly is a single lever pressure balanced control, & not just a single lever control (like the kitchen sink), then the hot water shuttle valve is sticking/stuck. Since you say the water gets hotter when the toilet is flushed, this further confirms to me the shuttle valve is stuck.

Two ways to fix this:
1-Find manufacturer & model number & get a rebuild kit.
2-Replace the entire valve assembly.

IF this control is original from 1978, you MIGHT not find a rebuild kit still available.

For more research, go to pbs.org, look for links to ASK THIS OLD HOUSE, & search for no hot water in shower. Tommy did a piece on exactly this problem a few years ago, explained how the problem came to be & shows pressure balance faucets in cut-away form so you'll understand HOW they work & WHY they fail.

EDIT: BTW, I'm not a plumber, but my father was for a while, then went into plumbing supply for MANY years. I started plumbing with him nearly 50 years ago. Though I didn't do much of the plumbing in the house we built 5-6 years ago, it was all done to my & my father's specifications.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[Nightingale 0]

On the kitchen sink, I can control how much water comes out and what temperature it is with one knob. On the shower, the knob just turns, and when I start turning, it's very cold with low pressure, in the middle, it's kinda warm with a lot of pressure, and at the end it's hot (or supposed to be) with lower pressure.

[DavidB 0]

I'm willing to bet the rent (& I'm NOT a gambler!) it's a pressure balance faucet, & the shuttle valve is stuck. This valve moves to keep the pressure of both hot & cold sides balanced. IE: if the cold water pressure drops, the valves moves to restrict the hot water so you don't get scalded. Sounds like it's stuck on the low pressure side, so you get little hot water.

Like I said, you can USUALLY find rebuild kits for them. Old assemblies do, however, present challenges most novices are not prepared for. Most operational problems (like yours) stem from mineral build-up. This will also cause things like the shut-off valves to stick open, cause handles to freeze to stems, & can also freeze other fasteners making disassembly impossible. Professional plumbers have special tools that can USUALLY overcome SOME of these problems, plus the good ones have little "tricks of the trade" that can be applied to most, but it may cost you less (in terms of both $$$ & time) just to have the whole assembly replaced. IMO, a GOOD plumber will tell you, "Yes, I CAN rebuild it, but there's no guarantee it'll come apart, or if it IS rebuilt that it'll last, so you'd be money & time ahead to replace it."

www.howstuffworks.com will surely have pics & a better description of how these valves work. Check them out. Might give you an idea of what you're up against.

Bottom line: I think you should just call a pro & have the whole thing replaced, rather than risk a DIY job that might have the tub/shower down for who knows how long, not to mention the potential to flood out a neighbor's unit if something goes wrong.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[Nightingale 0]

Our tap water has a very high mineral content. If you leave a glass of water out and let the water evaporate, the entire bottom of the glass is covered with hard water deposits.

[mnealtx 0]

This may be the 'This Old House' project that was mentioned up-thread...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Croc 0]

What type of shower valve do you have? Approximately how old is it? Do you have hard water?
(I am a plumber, or plumbologist, as we prefer to be called.) Also, as Cochese mentioned, a service call and a group shower will most likely be required.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[Croc 0]

By the way, you owe me $89. ( $89 for opinions, $289 for correct opinions.) Sounds like your shower valve is limed up. There, earned my $89.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[DavidB 0]

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This may be the 'This Old House' project that was mentioned up-thread...

That's not it. I just spent the better part of an hour looking around their sites & can't find what I'm looking for. I DID find a cut-away pic of a PB faucet though: http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/a/baths/pressure-balancing-valve-00.jpg

The handle is obviously the large chrome piece top/center. The two small upright things you see below & to the left & right of the handle are the shut off valves (note: not ALL PB valve have shut off valves), accessible behind the cover plate. Inside the center of the valve assembly is the shuttle valve which moves to keep the pressure balanced between hot & cold. THAT'S what is stuck.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.