BATF Seizes Vintage Warplane

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Collector puzzled over seizure of his vintage war plane by customs agents

A vintage airplane collector said Tuesday that government agents have impounded his rare 1952 military aircraft he imported from France last fall and are threatening to destroy the plane because of a missed step in bringing it into the country.

Claude Hendrickson III said U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents seized his Douglas AD-4N Skyraider about six weeks ago at the Bessemer Municipal Airport hangar he leases.

"(ICE) basically said we smuggled the plane into the country. My question is how do you smuggle this into the country," Hendrickson asked pointing to the single-engine aircraft that was commonly used as an attack bomber during the Vietnam War.

Hendrickson's Skyraider is believed to be one of only four of its kind that remain in the U.S.

Hendrickson said ICE agents told him then that he had failed to fill out a form required by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives when he imported the plane into the states from France.

Hendrickson said he was unaware he had to register the plane with ATF since he removed the aircraft's artillery while it was still in France.

Hendrickson did register the plane with the FAA...

Source: http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/06/collector_puzzled_over_seizure.html

[popsjumper 2]

Bureaucrats...gotta love 'em.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[metalslug 31]

Reminds me of this post too.

[skittles_of_SDC 0]

That's a damn shame. They are just kickass aircraft. I got to see one that came in for paint.

[Misternatural 0]

I have a BATF permit for brewing fuel..Those agents definitely don't mess around and have very little tolerance for anyone with a sense of humor about their job- It was made VERY clear to me during all the background check procedures and such what the consequences are for bending the rules. So I don't recommend anyone trifle with them. It seems like he just was not aware of the circumstances. They will prolly just make sure that he and everybody else knows that this was not OK in their book. I hope he gets to keep the plane....but they made it obvious to me that they can and will confiscate or destroy anything they consider to be involved in any violation of their rules. What really sucks is you don't get a refund for your investment.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[quade 4]

So, lemme get this straight . . .

He went to all the time, trouble and expense to import the damn thing, but wasn't concerned enough to ensure he'd dotted all the Is and crossed all the Ts?

HE WAS IMPORTING A MILITARY JET!

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Hendrickson said he was unaware he had to register the plane with ATF since he removed the aircraft's artillery while it was still in France.

Unaware?! You mean he didn't check with them? He didn't check with the hundreds of people that have done similar things to learn the pitfalls of not doing it right?

De-MILed or not, FFS, what did he think was going to happen if he didn't follow all the rules to the letter?

I'm not saying he got what he deserved or shouldn't be able to own it, but, FFS, he should know these people have no sense of humor and are 100% by the book when it comes to stuff like this.

He's "puzzled"?! I'm not. Not in the least.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wolfriverjoe 1,464]

Quote

....but they made it obvious to me that they can and will confiscate or destroy anything they consider to be involved in any violation of their rules...

With the BATFE, it doesn't even have to be a real violation.

Of any real rule or law.

This is more of a SC topic though.


And Quade - It's a Skyraider. They called it a "Spad" in Vietnam.

Prop-driven, not a jet. The last of the big, single engined military planes to be piston/prop driven.

But I agree that he should have done better research.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kbordson 8]

Quote

But I agree that he should have done better research.

Maybe.

But... was there any alcohol? tobacco? or firearms?

He had done his diligence with the FAA and other government agencies. I just bet that he discounted the ATF because there was no alcohol, tobacco or firearms.

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

Quote

But I agree that he should have done better research.

Maybe.

But... was there any alcohol? tobacco? or firearms?

He had done his diligence with the FAA and other government agencies. I just bet that he discounted the ATF because there was no alcohol, tobacco or firearms.

Maybe we need to contact the ATF if we buy one of these as well? >>Jeep<<

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[futuredivot 0]

Quote

HE WAS IMPORTING A MILITARY JET!

HE WAS IMPORTING A PROPELLER DRIVEN GAS POWERED VINTAGE AIRPLANE WITH NO WEAPONS!

Nope-that shouting crap doesn't make me feel more powerful-must be a compensation thing

There have been weapons mounted on Birddogs but most people wouldn't think to notify BATF if they brought in a 170.

At worst, a competent agent could handle this without the seizure or threats. Those guys need to be introduced to reality.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

Quote

HE WAS IMPORTING A MILITARY JET!

HE WAS IMPORTING A PROPELLER DRIVEN GAS POWERED VINTAGE AIRPLANE WITH NO WEAPONS!

Nope-that shouting crap doesn't make me feel more powerful-must be a compensation thing

There have been weapons mounted on Birddogs but most people wouldn't think to notify BATF if they brought in a 170.

At worst, a competent agent could handle this without the seizure or threats. Those guys need to be introduced to reality.

It's called posturing - Making an example of people at their expense - Not unlike some moderators do here.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

Quote

Not unlike some moderators do here.

Oh yeah? Well you're next in line buddy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

Quote

But I agree that he should have done better research.

Maybe.

But... was there any alcohol? tobacco? or firearms?

He had done his diligence with the FAA and other government agencies. I just bet that he discounted the ATF because there was no alcohol, tobacco or firearms.

2 minutes of research.

CFR 8130.27 Appendix 1

Quote

Former military aircraft imported from ANY other
country require an import permit issued by the Department of Treasury,
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF). If the applicant
is unable to produce an ATF Form 6 or 6A, the FAA certificating
office should contact the ATF Firearms and Explosives Import Branch
to determine if copies of these forms are available for the particular
aircraft. In cases where the ATF Forms 6 or 6A are not required
or not available, the FAA certificating office manager will determine
the extent of demilitarization necessary prior to airworthiness
certification.
NOTE: Should there be any questions regarding ATF Forms 6 and 6A requirements, contact the ATF Firearms and
Explosives Import Branch, Department of Treasury, phone number (202) 927-8320. Any changes to this phone number will be provided on electronic mail to all offices

It sounds like the FAA dropped the ball.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[quade 4]

Quote

2 minutes of research.

CFR 8130.27 Appendix 1

Quote

Former military aircraft imported from ANY other
country require an import permit issued by the Department of Treasury,
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF). If the applicant
is unable to produce an ATF Form 6 or 6A, the FAA certificating
office should contact the ATF Firearms and Explosives Import Branch
to determine if copies of these forms are available for the particular
aircraft. In cases where the ATF Forms 6 or 6A are not required
or not available, the FAA certificating office manager will determine
the extent of demilitarization necessary prior to airworthiness
certification.
NOTE: Should there be any questions regarding ATF Forms 6 and 6A requirements, contact the ATF Firearms and
Explosives Import Branch, Department of Treasury, phone number (202) 927-8320. Any changes to this phone number will be provided on electronic mail to all offices

It sounds like the FAA dropped the ball.

What part of that makes you think it was the FAA's fault?

The FAA could have notified the importer about what needed to be done for an airworthiness and that would still not mean that the importer did it, nor that it would satisfy the BATF.

Even if complied with, all it would mean was that it could have an airworthiness certificate. Not that the BATF would be happy about it. they're two completely different organizations and care about two completely different aspects of the law.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skybill 22]

Hi John,
"Puzzled" is a realy good choice of words here!! Someone(s) in the B*TF definitely has a problem with the corncobb up their ass!! So now they are threatening to destroy this guys' "Spad" because he was unaware of some bureaucratic paper work BS!! I just hope he gets this straightened out and gets his plane back!! One thing that gets me is this is an "American" plane that was in France and I wonder what kind of hoops the guys at Classic Avia. in Reno had to go thru to get those Chicom Migs that they imported into the US???!!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

He had done his diligence with the FAA and other government agencies. I just bet that he discounted the ATF because there was no alcohol, tobacco or firearms.

Yeah, it's like asking for the FAA's permission to buy a gun. It makes no sense.