AFF Questions

[Melissa126 0]

hello everyone! Although I've never jumped, I know that I'm already addicted to the sport! I have two tandems coming up within the next two months (at 2 differnet places). I've done some research about AFF and am still confused. Sorry if I sound ridiculous with these questions, but am VERY new to all of this and I just want to know everything I can! I've been reading these forums for weeks now, I can't stop! I have a DZ within 15 minutes of my house (Sky's the Limit in PA)that offers the course... Is there a time limit that once you start you have to complete it in? I believe this places lets you pay per jump for the courses instead of all at once to make it easier. Do either tandems count as anything if they aren't at the same place? How many jumps do you generally have before completing the course? Any information or links would be great! Thanks!

[Ron 7]

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Is there a time limit that once you start you have to complete it in?

AFF has 7 levels If you wait more than 30 days between jumps, you have to drop down to the last level.

For example:
You pass Levels 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and then go 31 days. You would have to do a level 5 again.

Longer than that it would depend on what level you were on, how well you were doing... Ect. Some instructors would make you go to a double JM dive (level 1,2,3), some might make you go to a single JM dive (4, 5, 6, or 7).

You have to jump once every 30 days to stay current until you get a license (25 jumps and some other stuff).

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Do either tandems count as anything if they aren't at the same place?

You have to have 25 jumps to get an A license. Tandems count, all you need is a logbook. At one DZ I used to work at your second Tandem could be used as an AFF level 1.

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How many jumps do you generally have before completing the course?

25 to get a license.

Honestly your best course of action is to go to the DZ you plan on using and ask them their program specifics.

Also, be very leery of ANY advice you get from here, or from anyone that is not your instructor (including anything from me)... You don't know who I am and you have no clue if I just told you the truth. PLUS each DZ is a little different and what DZ "A" does is not always what DZ "B" does.

You cannot learn to skydive from the internet. And the only opinion that really counts is the instructors you are working with.

Again, your best option is to roll up to Sky's the Limit and ask them. The owner Jeff Root is a nice guy (doesn't like me... But hey no ones perfect) and he will not screw you over.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Melissa126 0]

Thank you so much for all the information! I am definitely planning on contacting them. When you say log book, is there actually something specific? Or is it just me writing down my tandems locations and times?

[Ron 7]

When you do a tandem they should give you a small logbook. Keep it.

Or you can buy a larger logbook that you will use once you start a program.

Logbooks are very important till you get higher licenses.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

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Thank you so much for all the information! I am definitely planning on contacting them. When you say log book, is there actually something specific? Or is it just me writing down my tandems locations and times?

Something specific like These Logbooks from Paragear.

They should (but may or may not) include one with your tandems and most definitely should include one with your AFF.

As a student, all your jumps need to be signed off by an instructor to "count".

If you are only 15 minutes away, go out there!!!

Tell them you are really interested in taking AFF and have a few questions.
Then hang around for a while and watch.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jim_32766 0]

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Thank you so much for all the information! I am definitely planning on contacting them. When you say log book, is there actually something specific? Or is it just me writing down my tandems locations and times?

I only did one tandem and didn't worry about logging it. Many people do log tandems, especially if they do several. You paid, so you might as well get the credit. The log book isn't anything special and comes in several varieties. The important step is getting the jump recorded and then signed. You don't sign your own jumps, you need another skydiver to sign your jumps.

The meaning of life . . . is to make life have meaning.

[KermieCorleone 0]

I only got one thing to say, why are you asking for advice on here when you are 15 mins from the DZ. they dont charge you for hanging out there and you learn alot more by talking to actual instructors and jumpers. + familiarizing yourself with the DZ, jumpers equipment etc, takes away some of the anxiety as well ... and its simply a hoot as well

- Neil

Never make assumptions! That harmless rectangle could be two triangles having sex ...

[Melissa126 0]

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I only got one thing to say, why are you asking for advice on here when you are 15 mins from the DZ. they dont charge you for hanging out there and you learn alot more by talking to actual instructors and jumpers. + familiarizing yourself with the DZ, jumpers equipment etc, takes away some of the anxiety as well ... and its simply a hoot as well

I know I should, although between jobs, etc. I'm away from 7:00AM-7:30PM most days of the week, so just trying to get a little info while I can before I find time to go over. Thanks everyone

[kmills0705 0]

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hello everyone! Although I've never jumped, I know that I'm already addicted to the sport! I have two tandems coming up within the next two months (at 2 differnet places). I've done some research about AFF and am still confused. Sorry if I sound ridiculous with these questions, but am VERY new to all of this and I just want to know everything I can! I've been reading these forums for weeks now, I can't stop! I have a DZ within 15 minutes of my house (Sky's the Limit in PA)that offers the course... Is there a time limit that once you start you have to complete it in? I believe this places lets you pay per jump for the courses instead of all at once to make it easier. Do either tandems count as anything if they aren't at the same place? How many jumps do you generally have before completing the course? Any information or links would be great! Thanks!

If you know you are already addicted to the sport and want to do AFF why spend your money on two tandems. Jump (pun intended) right into AFF.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[Melissa126 0]

I thought that tandems were required prior to AFF???

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

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I thought that tandems were required prior to AFF???

Some places do, some don't.

The first jump is very often a "Holy Shit I Just Jumped Out of an Airplane!!" experience without a whole lot of "learning" going on in freefall. Sensory overload is a strong possibility, where you are so overwhelmed that you don't even remember the freefall (or only parts of it).

It can also be a much better learning experience under canopy because the instructor is right behind you, not on the ground talking into a radio. You can get a better idea of canopy control and landing patterns/procedures.

They certainly won't hurt.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[timmyfitz 0]

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AFF has 7 levels

The old AFF program had 7 levels. Following the ISP, you will have 8 levels for AFF.

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If you wait more than 30 days between jumps, you have to drop down to the last level.

Although this is true for the most part, the currency recommendations are not part of the BSR's. Each dropzone may have different currency requirements.

[airathanas 0]

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I thought that tandems were required prior to AFF???

The best way to learn this info is to show up at the DZ and ask the instructors there.

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[rehmwa 2]

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The old AFF program had 7 levels. Following the ISP, you will have 8 levels for AFF.

Melissa can find the ISP and AFF jump objectives in the Skydiver's Info Manual - CHapter 4

Free download at USPA

http://www.uspa.org/USPAMembers/Downloads/tabid/84/Default.aspx

DZ's might vary a bit from the curriculum there, so still it's best to drive 15 minutes and hang out and ask questions

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[regulator 0]

What DZ are you closest to? My DZ makes students do two tandems before they begin their AFF training, but it's called STP there instead. It's the same program just spead out a little more than AFF is.

[egloskerry 0]

I'd recommend to do a tandem first, at least one. It makes the first AFF go a whole lot smoother, because you've gotten the freak out part out of the way, at least for me. My instructor was glad I had gone on a tandem beforehand.

Just think of it like would you drive on a crowded highway in rush hour on your first time driving? You'd be scared shitless.

[kmills0705 0]

It can be required by the drop zone. It isn't by mine nor did I ever do a tandem as a student.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[Melissa126 0]

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What DZ are you closest to? My DZ makes students do two tandems before they begin their AFF training, but it's called STP there instead. It's the same program just spead out a little more than AFF is.

The DZ is sky's the limit in PA. I'm planning on doing a tandem there in July, but I'll be doing my first one June 3rd in ocmd while on vacation.

[alp27 0]

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What DZ are you closest to? My DZ makes students do two tandems before they begin their AFF training, but it's called STP there instead. It's the same program just spead out a little more than AFF is.

The DZ is sky's the limit in PA. I'm planning on doing a tandem there in July, but I'll be doing my first one June 3rd in ocmd while on vacation.

I did my first jump a few weeks ago as a tandem, gonna do AFF this summer and have tunnel time booked for next month... its the greatest feeling ever in free fall, and then the canopy ride is the most peaceful place on the planet... good luck!!

Everyone dies.... not everyone lives!!

[regulator 0]

I did my first jump in Perris, CA. I did AFF right off the bat. I then did 5 jumps in Skydive Dallas and then finished up my license at skydive spaceland. For some tandems were the way to go, but for me... I didn't want some other dudes balls in close proximity to my ass.

[Melissa126 0]

I did my first jump a few weeks ago as a tandem, gonna do AFF this summer and have tunnel time booked for next month... its the greatest feeling ever in free fall, and then the canopy ride is the most peaceful place on the planet... good luck!!

Awesome! Does skys the limit have a tunnel? Where are you doing your aff at?

[Ron 7]

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The old AFF program had 7 levels. Following the ISP, you will have 8 levels for AFF.

According to the ISP, you have "category's", not levels.

"Regardless of discipline, the USPA Integrated Student Program advances students through eight categories of proficiency (A-H) to qualify them for their USPA A license."

There are 8 Cat's but Cat E-H can be done by a USPA rated coach.

"An appropriately rated USPA Instructor must directly supervise each student jump until the student is cleared to self supervise during Category E. A USPA Coach may conduct freefall training and supervise jumps for those students in Categories E through H. A USPA Coach may also supervise static line and IAD students following a successful clear-and-pull in Category C. Until the USPA A license, all student training remains the responsibility of the USPA Instructor."


And even then, the ISP is a *recommendation* from the USPA:

"USPA recommends that skydivers complete training in the Integrated Student Program (ISP), an effective means of preparing a student for the USPA A license."

Now you might include the Hop n Pop as an AFF L8.... But that is really a Cat F and they suggest *2* of them:

"5. Clear and pull (AFF students only - IAD and static-line students have already met the clear-and-pull requirement in Category C.)

a. A clear and pull is used for emergency exits and pre-planned low-altitude jumps.

b. Use a familiar, stable exit technique.

c. Present your hips to the relative wind and execute normal pull procedures (without wave-off) to deploy within five seconds of exit.

d. Expect the parachute to open in relation to the relative wind, not overhead as usual.

e. The sequence consists of a clear and pull from two altitudes:

(1) first from 5,500 feet

(2) once successful, from 3,500 feet


You might be thinking that the checkout dive is the 8th jump.... But it is required for all types of instruction.

"Once meeting all the requirements listed on the USPA A-License Application, the student may then make a check jump with a USPA Instructor to be issued the USPA A license. The check jump consists of an overall review of the training and includes an oral quiz taken from the quizzes at the end of each category."

So a school could easily still use a 7 level AFF program and be 100% in line with the USPA as long as all the objectives have been met. The hop n pops are solos and can be done after L7.

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Although this is true for the most part, the currency recommendations are not part of the BSR's. Each dropzone may have different currency requirements.

No, but it is in the SIM

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5-2: Recurrency Training:

A. Students

Students who have not jumped within the preceding 30 days should make at least one jump under the direct supervision of an appropriately rated USPA Instructor.

And at the 5 DZ's I have worked for they all required a drop back to the last level... One required going back to the Cat D. Unless this was a SL program and then they required a clear and pull. Did that always happen? Nope, but then again that's why I told her to talk to the DZ in question and said, "Honestly your best course of action is to go to the DZ you plan on using and ask them their program specifics."

For example Sky's the Limit requires a Tandem before starting AFF... AND it has to be within the last 3 mths, AND at STL... that's not in the BSR's or ISP:

"If you've never made a skydive, you are required to do a Tandem Skydive for your first jump. A tandem skydive jump allows you the experience, concentrating on some basic procedures. You can simply relax and enjoy your skydive, while an experienced professional instructor handles the equipment procedures.

If you've already made a jump at Sky’s The Limit in the last 3 months, and are interested in becoming a skydiver, you will need to go through an approved training program."

STL also does a Tandem progression program (called AFP there) that starts with three tandems and then goes to Cat C-2 (single JM hover control), or D-1 (L4), I am not sure which.

Most DZ's I have worked at, still call them levels. Heck, I have been told Perris pushes the student out on level 6.... Frankly, I think that is awesome, but it is not in the SIM/ISP anywhere.

At Bragg/Perris/AZ I have done a tunnel to L4 program.

At Bragg we had a SL to L5 program back in 99.

The point being that only the DZ she chooses can give her *the* answers and that different DZ's are going to have different procedures. All we are doing is confusing the situation.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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A USPA Coach may conduct freefall training and supervise jumps for those students in Categories E through H.

I'm not a big fan of a Coach for Cat E's

that's a recent change?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ron 7]

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I'm not a big fan of a Coach for Cat E's

that's a recent change?

I am not either, and I don't know. But in a SL progression program it didn't seem that unusual. From an AFF background it seems like a bad idea and I doubt any place does it that way.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kmills0705 0]

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A USPA Coach may conduct freefall training and supervise jumps for those students in Categories E through H.

I'm not a big fan of a Coach for Cat E's

that's a recent change?

Nope. That is the same for static line progression also. Which is why so many (rightfully so) think the USPA coach program is backwards. You have to have a static line instructor rating to hold the rope during exit, but only need a coach rating to teach and supervise those progression students in freefall. I don't know the logic behind this. It is confusing... and yes off subject. Sorry.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I