Forestry by the Red Bull Air Force

[airtwardo 6]

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Damn, and I have a Red Bull in my fridge.

step1 -chainsaw your fridge
step 2 - post the video

Don't chainsaw the fridge, the kitchen will erode into the basement!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[LongWayToFall 0]

I totally agree that it is unethical, but I am just curious from a legal standpoint. If they did break laws, then they should pay whatever fines go with that, if nothing more than a goodwill gesture in an attempt to apologize. I think that the number of customers they lost with this stunt compared to gained via advertising will become apparent to upper management, and I hope appropriate actions are taken.

[NWFlyer 2]

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I think that the number of customers they lost with this stunt compared to gained via advertising will become apparent to upper management, and I hope appropriate actions are taken.

I suspect that the ratio of pissed off potential customers (even if every skydiver/BASE jumper in the world called to complain, which ain't gonna happen) to customers who think it's really fucking cool will not be a ratio that the Red Bull marketing folks give a rat's ass about.

Let's face it. Skydivers and BASE jumpers aren't the people Red Bull is trying to reach with these ads/videos/promotional activities. Sure, they're doing some stuff that may have appeal to fellow jumpers, and Red Bull marketing team people will show up at boogies/tunnels with coolers of Red Bull from time to time, but while the content may be skydiving and BASE jumping, the audience is a much larger and broader group of potential customers who just think it's extreeeeeeeme.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[legalize1966 0]

This guys will ruin the sport for all of us. Greed is a horrible thing. And before some one try's to prove it other wise they are paid real well for these stunts and lost the love a long time ago.

[Thanatos340 1]

I agree that SUCKS. It was a stupid thing that was done.

But I am Curious if all the anger is being directed in the right direction.

Did the guys on the RBAF even know anything at all about this until they got to the site and it was already done? Did the producer or Red Bull Know this was being done??

Or did the Production company do this on their own??

I agree that Red Bull is ultimately responsible and should have stepped up soon as they discovered what the Idiot Production company had done and fired them on the spot and went about trying to find a way to mitigate the damage. They clearly fucked up on this one big time.

Threatening to kick the RBAF Guys in the nuts (who may or may not have had anything to do with this) may be a little premature. For all we know they may just as pissed off about this as everyone else.

Again, I am not defending anyone (The few RB guys I have met came across as self impressed, self centered Assholes.. But then again that describes most of us on here.)

Is there a Paypal address where we can send a donation to help with planting more trees and/or other ways to prevent erosion at the site??

[BillyVance 34]

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This guys will ruin the sport for all of us. Greed is a horrible thing. And before some one try's to prove it other wise they are paid real well for these stunts and lost the love a long time ago.

Pot, meet kettle...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[JohnDeere 0]

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This guys will ruin the sport for all of us. Greed is a horrible thing. And before some one try's to prove it other wise they are paid real well for these stunts and lost the love a long time ago.

Pot, meet kettle...

Oh the truth!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[LongWayToFall 0]

I suppose you are right. I did not/do not know what level of advertising this is for, but if it is not directed towards jumpers than it probably won't hurt them much. Even if they knew, the average person probably won't care about a couple trees being cut down. To Base jumpers, however, it is obviously a much bigger deal.

I think some questions that need to be answered, are: What are the legal penalties, if any, and who exactly is responsible.

[hookitt 0]

I've been wating for this. I know some of the jumpers Mike included. My doubts of support by the jumpers were rather high. Here's what Mike Swanson had to say.

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vtmike73

Ok, before all you haters out there keep on slamming a group of people you have no idea about, how about getting the story straight. The problem with hearing stories and forming opinions is that its like banana phone you played in grade school. You sit in a circle whisper something to somebody and it goes around, by the time it gets back it is something completely different than it started usually nowhere near the original statement. On top of that people read things on the Internet and formulate strong opinions without facts, so each time the story that is told is exaggerated a little more until you have a bunch of strangers slamming strangers. These are the facts:

Part of our team is on a project in Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland. We are not the only athletes on this project. We are 4 out of the 9 stunt people hired for this production. It is a production, which means the independent production company is in charge of all logistics and tells us when and where to jump. They have hired local mountain guides and base jumpers to help with this process. Most of the locals they have hired have lived in this area most, if not all, of their lives. When we heard the rumor that a few trees were going to be cut down we protested as a group. Short of tying ourselves to the trees they wanted to cut down we did what we could. Our disapproval was eased when the local jumpers that were doing the work, and are involved in the Swiss BASE association told us that it was just going to be a couple of small trees and that it would make for a safer better exit point for all.

Not that I feel that I have to stick up for the production company, cause I don’t, however they aren’t all that bad. For instance next time you guys are hiking up the Eiger to the mushroom, enjoy the new ropes replacing the old worn out ones that people were still using although they were breaking or ready to break. They also paid to put in steel cable so you and all future visitors can safely cross to the mushroom exit point, the same construction as Via Ferrata. They also paid to have the trail on the way to La Moose cleaned.

Haters will hate and lovers will love and not everyone will always be happy with other people’s decisions. We are just Skydivers and BASE jumpers, just like the rest of you. Our passion is human flight and I can assure you we always have the sports best interests in mind. The potential impact that this Movie will have on the Skydiving and BASE jumping communities is very high: From the promotion of this Valley for tourism; which will help keep the peace to giving a little back by helping to keep these sites open for future use; promoting BASE jumping as a sport worldwide, by giving people an understanding that this is a sport and an art, and that it is not just a bunch of yahoo daredevils, but a group of passionate individuals who love human flight and strive for better spots and better performance daily. I truly believe that this movie could help open the doors for legal sites worldwide where people in the past have either blown the opportunities, or not been given the chance to prove they won’t. And, hopefully all of this good will help to soften the blow of losing 6 trees at one exit point. (I don’t mean to sound like I am down playing it, but for everyone wondering, out of the seven, I think one was over the size of 3 inch’s in diameter).

Furthermore, this is not a ‘Red Bull Production’. There are Red Bull athletes, and some support for marketing the movie from Red Bull, but that’s it. They do not have anything to do with production. So, unless ya’all are out there using organically fed horse and buggy’s or wooden sailboats for all of your transportation; living off the grid in renewable energy, straw bale houses with composting toilets; recycling your grey water; not eating meat; living off organically produced veggies and no fast food; not buying anything from Wal-Mart or other similar big businesses, and … don’t forget that shiny computer you are using, and the one you tossed out last year, the list goes on… then you too are showing support towards the destruction of the planet yourselves. So maybe get off the hate wagon and instead of pointing fingers, figure out how you can make a difference yourself saving our beautiful planet.

Peace and Love

Mike Swanson

P.S We took the original post off to stop the uneducated bashing, I will not respond to any further unnecessary slander over this topic, since the facts have now been given and that is the sole purpose of my response. If you have further comments please feel free to contact the Swiss locals that made the decision I’m sure they would be happy to explain this again.

Organically Produced Food For Thought:

When I woke up this morning I went to the local base jumper/mountain guide to find out the true amount of trees and size cut down. I told him about the people outraged about the trees. He said that he wished people would look at their own countries, the deforestation going on and their own problems at home and let the Swiss take care of Switzerland. He also commented that when he cut down a shit ton of big trees to build Via Ferrata nobody complained. He also mentioned that not many people used the yellow ocean exit point that is used at the moment until they cut down a bunch of trees and made the platform that everyone uses now, and nobody complained about that! The real problem in the valley according to him is not a couple of small trees getting cut down, but the respect that the BASE jumpers show the farmers starting with: being polite, not landing in their tall grass, and calling air glacier before jumping. Also, the damage that people are doing taking many short cuts to the high nose is way more damage to the forest. (Probably a 20ft part of a short cut would add up to the cutting of the 6 small trees). These are the things that when you visit the valley are important, not being world police and judging them for what they do with their country but just enjoying it. If you are locals and are upset talk to the guys that made the call, you know exactly who they are.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[NickDG 23]

>>Ok, before all you haters out there keep on slamming a group of people you have no idea about . . .
I quit reading right there.

NickD
BASE 194

[hookitt 0]

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>>Ok, before all you haters out there keep on slamming a group of people you have no idea about . . .
I quit reading right there.

NickD
BASE 194

Nick, I love your work and all (really, I do... )but you tend to slam people as well, very subtle sometimes and sometimes not so subtle. You're taking one sentence and condemning Mike. I suspect you know mike so judging him on that sentence isn't appropriate.

I still don't know a thing about the production company or how things went over there but I do believe the jumper who wrote this did not support the idea. I honestly wouldn't expect them to find out the trees were cut down and just cease working for the movie.

I will keep my opinion of the production company and red bull to myself as it has no baring on my opinion of Mike, Jon and the others.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[airtwardo 6]

(I don’t mean to sound like I am down playing it, but for everyone wondering, out of the seven, I think one was over the size of 3 inch’s in diameter).


>sure doesn't look that way from the photos.



Furthermore, this is not a ‘Red Bull Production’. There are Red Bull athletes, and some support for marketing the movie from Red Bull, but that’s it. They do not have anything to do with production.


>Wait, what?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[hookitt 0]

The 3 inch remark does seem a bit off. Mike is a great flyer though

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[airtwardo 6]

Nick, I love your work and all (really, I do... )but you tend to slam people as well, very subtle sometimes and sometimes not so subtle. You're taking one sentence and condemning Mike. I suspect you know mike so judging him on that sentence isn't appropriate.



> I checked Nick's credentials and yeah, it's okay...he's cleared to do that.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[hookitt 0]

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> I checked Nick's credentials and yeah, it's okay...he's cleared to do that.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It's a comment more than anything.

Just so it's known, I don't agree with the trees being cut nor do I believe any of the SBA endorsed it.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[NickDG 23]

>>judging him on that sentence isn't appropriate.
Tim,

I'm not judging, and I'm not hating either. Let me explain, if I can.

What I am is hopelessly old school when it comes to certain aspects of B.A.S.E. jumping. And nothing about this tree thing changed anything in terms of how I feel about Red Bull.

In 1989 I railed against "No Fear" (one of the first corporations cashing in on extreme sports) when they set up a booth at the Bridge Day Trade Show to sell their clothing.

B.A.S.E. jumping to me, I mean what makes it so special, is how grass roots it is. I was privileged enough to know most of the true pioneers in this sport. And the best of them all did it for laudable reasons. Simply because they believed in it.

We started by letting it all hang out as far as publicity was concerned, we felt righteous and with nothing to hide. Then we found out that wasn't working. The world wasn't ready to accept B.A.S.E. and we weren't capable yet of presenting it in the right light. So we went underground and we turned our attention to figuring out the gear and techniques that would make it easier and safer.

In the meantime we suffered being stigmatized and ostracized in the greater parachuting community. Long time friendships were lost, jobs in skydiving denied, we were called knuckleheads, assholes, law breakers, and much worse. And every time one of us was hurt or killed there was not only no sympathy, we usually got a nice round of, "I told you so," and "he deserved it."

During this time the first group of post modern B.A.S.E. glory hounds appeared on the scene. These were your John Vincent types. New comers to the sport that could have cared less about the sport itself except for what it could do for them. And so began a period of "That's Incredible Fever" where these guys would do anything that could to become famous. And if that meant burning sites and ignoring standard in-house BASE ethics, and selling out the sport in general, than so be it.

Notwithstanding the glory hounds B.A.S.E. jumping naturally over time began to gain a grudging acceptance. Just like most of us knew in our hearts it would. We didn't have to ram it down anyone's throat, we just had to wait long enough.

There was a lot of reasons we can cite for that acceptance. Europe began to open up and flourish. Bridge Day grew to the point that nobody could watch it without admitting we knew what we were doing. The latest generation of skydivers weren't so automatically prejudiced against B.A.S.E and it's almost hard nowadays to run into a young skydiver who doesn't admit wanting to try B.A.S.E. jumping at some point.

But it wasn't all just waiting . . .

In the late 1980s my perforated paper printing hooked to a now archaic internet would start clicking & clacking in the middle of the night and spill out a cryptic message from across the country.

It would be from Mike Allen, or a small number of other connected B.A.S.E. jumpers, telling me they jumped from a light house trying a new packing technique that went awry. "So do do this," Mike would warn me. And this was how it went most of the time. Not do this and that. But don't do this and that. B.A.S.E - with no instruction book to follow, for us was a great and dangerous game of, "Heck, let's just try it this way." These late night BASE-grams were like gold to us. They became what we would later, and still do, call Nuggets.

Then a fledgling BASE gear industry started to gather steam. A handful of talented believers hocked their entire futures to invest in what was still at this point a mostly illegal activity with not too bright a future. With no FAA type agency to oversee them, and thinking only progress without killing anyone, they took us, slowly but surly, out of the dark ages.

Things were going well, so we started pushing a bit harder. A lot of us went to jail, some even to prison. These are your Dennis McGlynns, your Picks, your John Hoovers, and your Keith Jones'. And yes, they even got John Vincent eventually. Their crimes? In essence it was just parachuting, that's all.

There is also the BFL that's filled mostly with people following their passion. They shared, they were brothers and sisters, they B.A.S.E. jumped because it filled their hearts with joy, and each and every one of them left us a lesson. And those lessons have saved countless others.

Okay, so were is this all going?

Here's where.

I don't hate Clint, Miles, Eli, or any of the other RB guys I might know. In fact, just like everyone else the videos of their stuff wows me too. I'm not in any way shape or form against the progress in BASE these guys represent. Wingsuits, proxi flight, low pulls, even those other guys doing decent Free Fly from cliffs, I love this stuff.

What I don't like is Red Bull coming along and hijacking our history, our progress, our heritage, and to do what? Sell a product? But it's even more than that. Ask any 18 year old who invented B.A.S.E. jumping and I think you'll get Red Bull as the answer. And that's understandable as that's pretty much the way they present it.

Tim, (if you're still with me) you've been reading my stuff long enough to know I'm not just jumping on the band wagon. And I accept your observation that I sometimes let fly with a subtle jab at someone. Well, I am opinionated and that's the price I pay. And I do sometimes, not all the time, just some times, regret it. but I've said it time and again I wished Red Bull would leave B.A.S.E. jumping alone. Everyone else is pissed off about a few trees. I'm pissed off because long ago we all sat back and let Red Bull run us over without a fight. Plain and simple, I felt they were using us. If after explaining all that someone wants to boil my position down to "hater" than fine there's nothing more I can do.

Now here comes the kicker.

I know more than most how times change, especially in B.A.S.E. as I've lived it from the beginning. I've lived long enough to actually be at Elsinore the day in 1978 when Carl Boenish showed his El Cap film for the very first time. And I've lived long enough to see B.A.S.E. jumpers actually free fly. So what do I feel is the real downside to Red Bull showcasing B.A.S.E.? At this point not much of a downside at all. I think when it's all said and done it will only be good for the sport. But they are only getting my acceptance slowly and grudgingly, just like we core B.A.S.E. jumpers gained it so many years ago.

And it's just my rotten bad luck I start feeling this way and they go and bust out the axes . . .

NickD BASE 194

[DangerRoo 0]

Well said

(I.C.D#2 VP)
""I'm good with my purple penis straw" ~sky mama

[TomAiello 25]

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He said that he wished people would look at their own countries, the deforestation going on and their own problems at home and let the Swiss take care of Switzerland.

Given that one of the people concerned (enough to start a Facebook group about the issue) was a Swiss jumper, who lives in Switzerland, that makes very little sense.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[RhondaLea 3]

His whole apologia is a bunch of lame horseshit. A critical read gives you:

"It's not our fault; we protested, someone else did it anyway, and the good we've done far outweighs the damage done to a few itty-bitty trees."

The way I figure is that if you really mean it, you refuse to act until your demands are met, i.e., "We won't jump if you cut down those trees." Period.

I started my personal boycott of Red Bull a few years ago for some other reason lost to the mists of time, but now I wish I'd saved my boycott virginity for this episode.

Bottom line: they may not have supported it, but they sure as hell went along with it, and that means they carry as much of the blame for it as the person who did the hatchet job.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Agreed. By this logic if I am only selling slaves I've done noting wrong as long as someone else caught them.
After all,you wouldn't want them to go to waste.

A company the size of RedBull should be careful who they align themselves with.They should remain in control in the things they are involved in.

They will not be asked to another one of my events.

[TomAiello 25]

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Our disapproval was eased when the local jumpers that were doing the work, and are involved in the Swiss BASE association told us that it was just going to be a couple of small trees and that it would make for a safer better exit point for all.

I'd love to know who, specifically, these local jumpers were. Could someone provide actual names (and contact info)? No one else seems to have heard from (or even of) them.

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...giving people an understanding that this is a sport and an art, and that it is not just a bunch of yahoo daredevils...

Right. Because chopping down trees that are in the way of your camera shot totally makes you look like sportsmen and artists, and in no way like a bunch of yahoos.

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...the damage that people are doing...

This argument (which runs through Mike's post) seems to boil down to:

"Since other people are screwing things up, it's ok for me to screw things up too."

That's a lame excuse.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[popsjumper 2]

[reply
This argument (which runs through Mike's post) seems to boil down to:

"Since other people are screwing things up, it's ok for me to screw things up too."

That's a lame excuse.

[popsjumper 2]

Funny you should mention El Capitan.

Maybe all should go look at the thread about why it got shut down after all the hard work getting it opened up.

Sad story.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[hookitt 0]

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Tim, (if you're still with me)

Truth be told, I was somewhat baiting in hopes to hear a more in depth Nick DiGiovanni-ism and that was a good one. Thank you.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[riddler 0]

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What I don't like is Red Bull coming along and hijacking our history, our progress, our heritage, and to do what? Sell a product?

Another good post, Nick, and I agree. But the rest of the world is against us. Commercialization had already taken over skydiving when I started eight years. I had to pay money even to learn to pack my main parachute. It's in the process of taking over BASE now. As long as people watch it, there's going to be other people that say "hey, I can make money from this!" Then, there's no forest or community that's safe.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD