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I jump a Sabre 1 150. I purchased the canopy used for cheap, it had approx 500 jumps on it. It already had an enlarged slider. I've put another 100 jumps on it or so and had easy openings everytime. If yours doesn't already have an enlarged slider (some folks will recco the pocket as they have done in this thread) go see your rigger. He/she will know exactly what to do.
This is what I do during packing:
After walking up the lines and flaking....Roll the end cells in groups tightly toward the center cell. You'll have two groups of end cells. Each group rolled toward the center cell. I tend to roll them 4-5 times. Pull the center cell out just a bit, you don't need to go crazy.
Don't forget to quarter that slider.
Wrap the tail around it for a snug fit. This, for me, means putting 2-3 rolls in before I lay 'er on the ground for folding and stuffing into the bag.
Keep good control while folding and stuffing.
I've deployed in a full sit before and been just fine. Obviously that's not going to be a wonderful opening, but I have yet to experience the "whacks" that everyone rants and raves about on the Sabre 1. I chalk it up to a lot of gossip and that old game of "telephone" where you start with the "the mouse has green cheese" and you end up with "the mouse took over the world and enslaved all of humanity."
The sabre 1, IMHO, is a damn fine canopy for a beginner, especially because of it's price point and availability. Sure you can go grab a Pilot, Spectre, Safire or wutever, but damn I paid practically nothing for mine and it opens nicely everytime.
/knock on wood
//here comes a mal this saturday....
This is what I do during packing:
After walking up the lines and flaking....Roll the end cells in groups tightly toward the center cell. You'll have two groups of end cells. Each group rolled toward the center cell. I tend to roll them 4-5 times. Pull the center cell out just a bit, you don't need to go crazy.
Don't forget to quarter that slider.
Wrap the tail around it for a snug fit. This, for me, means putting 2-3 rolls in before I lay 'er on the ground for folding and stuffing into the bag.
Keep good control while folding and stuffing.
I've deployed in a full sit before and been just fine. Obviously that's not going to be a wonderful opening, but I have yet to experience the "whacks" that everyone rants and raves about on the Sabre 1. I chalk it up to a lot of gossip and that old game of "telephone" where you start with the "the mouse has green cheese" and you end up with "the mouse took over the world and enslaved all of humanity."
The sabre 1, IMHO, is a damn fine canopy for a beginner, especially because of it's price point and availability. Sure you can go grab a Pilot, Spectre, Safire or wutever, but damn I paid practically nothing for mine and it opens nicely everytime.
/knock on wood
//here comes a mal this saturday....
Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell
AndyMan 7
QuoteI chalk it up to a lot of gossip and that old game of "telephone" where you start with the "the mouse has green cheese" and you end up with "the mouse took over the world and enslaved all of humanity."
I can personally assure you that the Saber 1 does infact open harder than most canopies out there. I can introduce you to people who've had their necks permanently damaged by repeatedly jumping them. (why they would repeatedly jump a slammer is another issue altogeather).
If yours opens great, fantastic. Lucky you. However understand that there are a great many Saber 1's out there that do not exhibit that characteristic.
Me? After 800 jumps and six years in the sport I'm just now being forced to sit out because of injury. Yup, you guessed right. I jumped a Saber 1 last weekend...
As for it being a damn fine canopy for a beginner, there are many other canopies that are a whole lot finer, and just as affordable too. Just because it seems to work for you does not make it a good recomendation.
_Am
__
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
Parker......the answer is........
a staplegun!
See me next time your out and I'll pack it/ show you some tricks. Like a couple people have said the standard for openings have changed since the Sabre was the state of the art canopy back in 1992. It normally opens a bit faster than the ZP Navigators/ Manta's you have jumped here. You might want to check with the I's here at the DZ if you have any questions about something and use DZ.com as "further knowledge".
a staplegun!
See me next time your out and I'll pack it/ show you some tricks. Like a couple people have said the standard for openings have changed since the Sabre was the state of the art canopy back in 1992. It normally opens a bit faster than the ZP Navigators/ Manta's you have jumped here. You might want to check with the I's here at the DZ if you have any questions about something and use DZ.com as "further knowledge".
peek 20
FYI:
http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm
PS.
To those of you who think large pilot chutes by themselves cause hard openings, please tell me why my 36 inch zero porosity pilot chute deploying my Stiletto 150 (with nothing special being done to stow the lines on the bag) has not caused hard openings in many hundreds of jumps.
http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm
PS.
To those of you who think large pilot chutes by themselves cause hard openings, please tell me why my 36 inch zero porosity pilot chute deploying my Stiletto 150 (with nothing special being done to stow the lines on the bag) has not caused hard openings in many hundreds of jumps.
I'm one of the lucky ones. I have a 170 with 310 jumps, 45 by me. I have never been slammed. I'm even adjusting how I roll the nose a little looser to see how it effects the openings. I guess I have one that is well behaved. Love the way it flies and got it at a great price.
50 donations so far. Give it a try.
You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity
You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity
I'll help you out with this one Gary. Two words - collapsable pilot chute. (OK that was three words). We could do a whole thread on this (my guess is that its already been done) but larger collapsable pilot chutes only create higher snatch force, not faster openings. By the time that the canopy is out of the bag, the pilot chute is already collapsed. I know you know this already, just hadn't seen that information here yet.
Aaron
Aaron
“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!”
sagan 0
Newbie response, but I jumped a sabre 1 for the past week in 210 and 230 sizes (yes beginner) and the only time i got a hard opening is when I had bad body positioning while pulling... i.e. backsliding, i had a tendency when i reached to pull my legs in. It surely woke me up quick and body positioning is now better.
I don't think anyone mentioned but when your packing make sure the slider stays up when your playing with getting it into the bag. On my first few packs the riggers would take one look at my mumbo jumbo before stopping me and telling me to stop moving the canopy around so much during folding. (And they were right when I carefully pulled it apart the slider had a couple inch gaps, which I'm told is enough to open hard)
I don't think anyone mentioned but when your packing make sure the slider stays up when your playing with getting it into the bag. On my first few packs the riggers would take one look at my mumbo jumbo before stopping me and telling me to stop moving the canopy around so much during folding. (And they were right when I carefully pulled it apart the slider had a couple inch gaps, which I'm told is enough to open hard)
-Patrick
Quote
I can personally assure you that the Saber 1 does infact open harder than most canopies out there...
If yours opens great, fantastic. Lucky you. However understand that there are a great many Saber 1's out there that do not exhibit that characteristic.
...
As for it being a damn fine canopy for a beginner, there are many other canopies that are a whole lot finer, and just as affordable too. Just because it seems to work for you does not make it a good recomendation.
_Am
i can understand and agree with your opinion. what's good for the goose isn't necc good for the gander.
i would venture to say that anytime you are getting repeatedly slammed (by any canopy) you should probably sit down and talk with a rigger.
Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell
i jump a Sabre 1 and it is a bitch on opening. 2 weeks ago it opened hard enough that it knocked me out for a few seconds. i called PD and they recommened sending it in for a reline. i am swithching to Dacron as i was told this will help slow it down. i also have tried all the "tricks" , rolling and stuffing eveything - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. if the reline doesnt help, i am buying a Spectre. good luck with yours.
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...
Bottom line is get a bigger or pocketed slider. I ahve a 120 wth an oversized slider and it opens well almost every time. My Sabre2 needs a reline and it doesn't open hard just weird.
Chris
I jumped a "legacy" Sabre for years before the Sabre2 came out. I still have an original Sabre 170 in my back-up rig that I jump from time to time.
The best I found on controlling Sabre hard openings is:
1) Roll the nose!
2) When you quarter the slider, make sure the 1/4 that comes out in the front, at the nose, isn't rolled up with the nose so it has a chance to catch air before the nose unrolls... is my theory on correct slider placement & the old Sabre.
3) TIGHT stow bands and I developed the habbit if making the bites a bit bigger like palm width wide vice 3 fingers.
4) Don't dump in a track!
... this is just worked for me, others may differ in opinion.
Having said that though, I've had some rouge... Saber... hard openings with that type of canopy. One so hard I "saw stars", instinct kicked in and I went for handles as I thought there was no way the canopy was still in one piece... imagine my surprise when I found that it was... I must have stared at it for awhile and checked and re-checked it as my head cleared and I flew back to the DZ still in disbelief that it could open so hard and not bust lines and/or blow-up. Another Sabre opening at a different time had me sink to me knees after standing up the landing trying to figure out if the pain in my back was just a bad strain or something more serious. Somehow I managed to get back to the hgr, pack, and then wound up laying on a heating pad someone had & drinking beer to try to make the pain in my back go away... next day I had a sore back and hangover...
. Point is, Sabres just plain open hard sometimes, they're just known for it and its my belief that they are not a bad canopy, just not as forgiving when it comes to packing.
The suggestion that if you're having hard openings on an old Saber that you get the canopies s/n and measure the slider size and call PD to check to see if the correct sized slider is on it I think is a good one too. I believe that somewhere in the evolution of the original Sabre, PD did up-size the sliders and you may have just gotten a hold of one with a smaller slider.
A smaller pilot chute is a good suggestion too, but be sure not to go with too small a pilot chute in combination with the rig & sized main you're jumping!! Since going to a 26", Jim Cazer (sp?), Kill Line pilot chute on all my gear past and present, I haven't gone back to that 30+" F111 "tent" pilot chute you get "free" with a lot of new rigs.
I'm not sure if I can say the lines being out of trim will make an old Sabre open "harder"... I can say from experience that the openings on an old Sabre can get really squirrelly when the lines get way out of trim...
The best I found on controlling Sabre hard openings is:
1) Roll the nose!
2) When you quarter the slider, make sure the 1/4 that comes out in the front, at the nose, isn't rolled up with the nose so it has a chance to catch air before the nose unrolls... is my theory on correct slider placement & the old Sabre.
3) TIGHT stow bands and I developed the habbit if making the bites a bit bigger like palm width wide vice 3 fingers.
4) Don't dump in a track!
... this is just worked for me, others may differ in opinion.
Having said that though, I've had some rouge... Saber... hard openings with that type of canopy. One so hard I "saw stars", instinct kicked in and I went for handles as I thought there was no way the canopy was still in one piece... imagine my surprise when I found that it was... I must have stared at it for awhile and checked and re-checked it as my head cleared and I flew back to the DZ still in disbelief that it could open so hard and not bust lines and/or blow-up. Another Sabre opening at a different time had me sink to me knees after standing up the landing trying to figure out if the pain in my back was just a bad strain or something more serious. Somehow I managed to get back to the hgr, pack, and then wound up laying on a heating pad someone had & drinking beer to try to make the pain in my back go away... next day I had a sore back and hangover...
. Point is, Sabres just plain open hard sometimes, they're just known for it and its my belief that they are not a bad canopy, just not as forgiving when it comes to packing. The suggestion that if you're having hard openings on an old Saber that you get the canopies s/n and measure the slider size and call PD to check to see if the correct sized slider is on it I think is a good one too. I believe that somewhere in the evolution of the original Sabre, PD did up-size the sliders and you may have just gotten a hold of one with a smaller slider.
A smaller pilot chute is a good suggestion too, but be sure not to go with too small a pilot chute in combination with the rig & sized main you're jumping!! Since going to a 26", Jim Cazer (sp?), Kill Line pilot chute on all my gear past and present, I haven't gone back to that 30+" F111 "tent" pilot chute you get "free" with a lot of new rigs.
I'm not sure if I can say the lines being out of trim will make an old Sabre open "harder"... I can say from experience that the openings on an old Sabre can get really squirrelly when the lines get way out of trim...
Candy 0
I jump a Sabre 1 170, I bought all my gear used right after getting off of the student program last year. I’ve taken some slamming openings on that thing, once I swear I felt like I’d been hit by a Mack truck.
Just learning to pack I soon learned how important it was to quarter my slider and roll the tail tight, my openings have gotten a lot better, but the “sweetest openings” were from this packer down in Perris, I was there for a canopy course a couple weeks ago and he was packing for me that day. My God…the openings were beautiful.
I would drive all the way back down there just to see how he packs my rig, I wish I would have had more time and I could have watched him pack it and asked him some questions.
Have fun, Good luck
Candy
Just learning to pack I soon learned how important it was to quarter my slider and roll the tail tight, my openings have gotten a lot better, but the “sweetest openings” were from this packer down in Perris, I was there for a canopy course a couple weeks ago and he was packing for me that day. My God…the openings were beautiful.
I would drive all the way back down there just to see how he packs my rig, I wish I would have had more time and I could have watched him pack it and asked him some questions.
Have fun, Good luck
Candy
rhys 0
i have been told that dacron lines will give you a much softer opening. search the forums here for dacron lines and listen to the comments.
or get an icarus safire. these guys (icarus)work on the openings and they are good i have a crossfire and it is the bombdiggity.
or get an icarus safire. these guys (icarus)work on the openings and they are good i have a crossfire and it is the bombdiggity.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
Avion 0
I was having inconsistent openings with my Spectre. Some soft, some harder, with the same packing. I asked some of the PD test jumpers that where around, and they said pull tension on the line stows should be between 7-12lbs. I noticed mine were like 3lbs.
So, with spectra lines, I triple wrap large bands above the cascades, that's the two locking stows and one more, and double wrap small bands on all the rest. I now have good pull tension on all the stows and my openings since have all been consistent. With dacron lines I double wrap large bands above the cascades and single wrap small bands below them.
Apparently, loose stows allow a semi-line dump to happen, and surprisingly that can have a significant effect on the opening.
Cheers
So, with spectra lines, I triple wrap large bands above the cascades, that's the two locking stows and one more, and double wrap small bands on all the rest. I now have good pull tension on all the stows and my openings since have all been consistent. With dacron lines I double wrap large bands above the cascades and single wrap small bands below them.
Apparently, loose stows allow a semi-line dump to happen, and surprisingly that can have a significant effect on the opening.
Cheers
I certainly would not make any mods on it without having spoken with them first.
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