Suicide...

[madhatter 0]

I was laways very outspoken about suicide, terming it a 'coward's way' of dealing with life.

HOWEVER - 3 years ago I lost a very close friend of mine to depression. She'd been on a low for a while, but no one picked up how bad she really felt. I took a hike that afternoon & cried like a baby, wishing I could have done something to prevent her desperate forfeit. Lilly wasn't cowardly, she just couldn't continue... I still wonder if I could have made some difference to her decision if I had paid more attention...

I had a talk this afternoon to another friend who tried to gas himself in his garage this pasr Monday and still can't understand why, if there are so many people who care for you, you still feel you can't share your feelings and ask for help. Why go to such an extreme!? So what if life isn't going the way you want it? At least it's still life!!!!


Not sure why I'm typing this, but I just wish people knew that there's always someone who cares and there's always people left behind who suffer even more because of such an action. Sheesh! A bunch of you dz.commers have my number - if you need someone to listen - CALL!!






Giving up should never be an option



edit: spelling & context

[tbrown 26]

We just lost a very good skydiving friend last month who was only 27 years old. Then last summer the best friend I ever had shot himself up in Seattle. It's sickening and leaves you feeling helpless because there's just no fixing it - ever.

The hard part are the ones you'd never expect if from, like my friend in Seattle. It's important to pay attention to our friends and those we love and to speak up or hold them close. But some of them never give the slightest warning and they're the real heartbreakers. I don't even know what to say about my friend Jim, I just wish I'd known and I wish he hadn't done it.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[madhatter 0]

Helpless. That's the worst part - just wishing you could have been there / seen it coming / done SOMETHING to prevent it.

I've lost many friends. Some through accidents or crime, some to illness, but I still can't process that one who didn't have to go

[virgin-burner 1]

if you havent been through it, major depression is hell mate..

like, u wake up in the morning, and for no apparent reason u're already crying. then the people that, when you speak up about how you feel, say the same bullshit over and over again. and just dont understand.

but thats not the worst part; say, you decide to go to a doctor, u get heavy medication that makes u sweat your arse off, like in, you loose 2kg's of body weight, your dick goes limp and for something so simple like taking a piss: u have to sit down and wait for three minutes until it flows. then the doctors: u're probably gonna end up with some freudian arse hole that thinks its all your fault, if he believes you at all, that is. to make things short, now you feel really mental!

and usually it doesnt just go away like that. like all your friends try to make you believe. its truely hell on earth.. i can understand someone trying to finish themselve off just too damn well..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[madhatter 0]

You're right, I haven't been there. Close, but not quite there.

The bloke from earlier this week wasn't clinically depressed, though. He's had a judgement against him for some income tax indiscretions (not a fraction of his true worth) and he thought this would be an easier option on his family. If he'd understood that stature isn't everything and people cared for him even if he made mistakes, maybe he wouldn't have tried this.



While typing this I started thinking I'd do better in the Land of OZ - being naive and optimistic just sometimes doesn't cut it in real life

[ravenhk 0]

I know some that committed sucide and they was no coward.

I know also that sometimes the people that are left blame themselves. Because I felt badly because they called me and I could not talk or go them them because I was at the hospital with someone else that had died. I wished that sometimes I could go back and chnage that way things was.

Thanks for starting thread because I would never have started it and it took a lot for me to write this.

It takes an awesome person to take the step that ypu have took

pain is weakness leaving the body

[iluvtofly 0]

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if you havent been through it, major depression is hell mate..

like, u wake up in the morning, and for no apparent reason u're already crying. then the people that, when you speak up about how you feel, say the same bullshit over and over again. and just dont understand.

but thats not the worst part; say, you decide to go to a doctor, u get heavy medication that makes u sweat your arse off, like in, you loose 2kg's of body weight, your dick goes limp and for something so simple like taking a piss: u have to sit down and wait for three minutes until it flows. then the doctors: u're probably gonna end up with some freudian arse hole that thinks its all your fault, if he believes you at all, that is. to make things short, now you feel really mental!

and usually it doesnt just go away like that. like all your friends try to make you believe. its truely hell on earth.. i can understand someone trying to finish themselve off just too damn well..

You hit the nail on the head. I personally suffer from clinical depression. (I've been to the dr's and been on the meds). And it sucks horribly. I've contemplated suicide many times. As recently as a few days ago. It's not something that just goes aways. It is a VERY lonely feeling...the feeling that no one else understands what you're going through. My brothers called and tried to talk to me but they just said to get over it. They don't understand. And if your own family doesn't understand who will.

I don't know why I'm confessing this all. I'll probalby regret it later if anyone ever calls me and says they want to talk. I don't like talking about it because then I have to face it. Don't be too surprised if this post gets deleted by me or I eventually ask a greenie to delete it for me.

[mdrejhon 8]

A dear friend of mine did what you said -- took his own life.

I have put up a memorial site for him, www.johnbriggs.net

John took his life back in my hometown, while I was travelling with my spouse to Argentina. We left for Argentina exactly one year ago - February 22nd, 2008. The photo on this website was taken in Bariloche, Patagonia and printed for the ceremony. It is an inukshuk sculpture (or more accurately, an Inunnguaq) built lakeside by both of us in memory of him, when we were thousands of miles away. Everyone at the ceremony saw the pictures as we had them printed over the Internet in a hurry, in lieu of our prescence.

He took his own life February 24th of 2008.
I still miss him very much.

I'll be keeping www.johnbriggs.net alive for the rest of my life for him. I do still have wonder in me, about what I could possibly have done.
Miss him always,

[popsjumper 2]

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-there's always someone who cares and
-there's always people left behind who suffer even more because of such an action.

Neither of which are reasons to keep living the hell that severe depression brings.

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Giving up should never be an option

On the contrary. You call it "giving up". Someone else would call it "putting and end to the misery". There's a huge difference. There's no cowardice in suicide. The coward is the one who makes the half-hearted attempt...too weak to deal with life and too weak to end it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[sunshine 2]

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-there's always someone who cares and
-there's always people left behind who suffer even more because of such an action.
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Neither of which are reasons to keep living the hell that severe depression brings.

I agree.

I hate when people say it's so selfish of someone to commit suicide because of the people they leave behind. To me it's selfish of the "people left behind" to think they're more important. If someone is truly in that much pain and chooses to die, they should have that option.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[kbordson 8]

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but they just said to get over it. They don't understand. And if your own family doesn't understand who will.

"Get over it."

What a dumb statement that truly is. As if it's something to get OVER - instead of a deep darkness that you don't even have the strength to reach up from.

[moodyskydiver 0]

Unless you've delt with depression and suicide personally, you can never truely understand.Its like skydiving in that, you can talk about it and have it described to you in detail but still have no clue what its really like until you actually do it for yourself.

Like others who have spoken up in this topic, I suffer from acute depression which plays a significant role in my life because I have been diagnosed with type II Bipolar Disorder.I,too have been close to taking my own life.Its your own personal hell on earth.I've been to doctor after doctor and taken literally dozens of medications over the years.I guess the one thing that stops me is kowing I'd break my mother's heart if I died.Other than that, the darkness makes everything else seem almost trivial and not worth considering when it comes down to living in so much pain or dying.Everyone is human and have weaknesses. Sometimes the strain is just too much to keep going.

If you'd like to know more about what its like first hand, theres an extraordinary book by Kay Redfield Jamison,who is a doctor and Bipolar Disorder sufferer, called Night Falls Fast: Understanding Suicide.

"...just an earthbound misfit, I."

[madhatter 0]

You might have noticed the big 'however' in the OP. I'm over myself and my arrogance in terming other's acts cowardice.

I'm just sad when I think of friends lost

[madhatter 0]

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I guess the one thing that stops me is kowing I'd break my mother's heart if I died.

At least you've pinpointed a reason to stay.

2001 I contemplated suicide, but got really mad at myself for thinking about it. I cancelled my life insurance and took a new policy that doesn't pay out for suicide. Because my parents are semi-dependent on me, THAT is what kept me going...

It's really heartbreaking to think there are others who don't even have that little motivation and have to end their own lives.

[tbrown 26]

I hate when people say it's so selfish of someone to commit suicide because of the people they leave behind. To me it's selfish of the "people left behind" to think they're more important. If someone is truly in that much pain and chooses to die, they should have that option.

[nigel99 144]

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-there's always someone who cares and
-there's always people left behind who suffer even more because of such an action.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Neither of which are reasons to keep living the hell that severe depression brings.

I agree.

I hate when people say it's so selfish of someone to commit suicide because of the people they leave behind. To me it's selfish of the "people left behind" to think they're more important. If someone is truly in that much pain and chooses to die, they should have that option.

Having just lost my brother in law to suicide in a most bizarre and twisted manner - having a DVD of his death made by his girlfriend and mailed to his 12 year old daughter and ex wife as a "goodbye" message from dad it was the most selfish and twisted act that I have ever come across. I am not denying that he was seriously mentally ill - but he has caused severe mental harm to 3 or 4 children (he had 5 - but I am not sure the youngest comprehend what went on) not to mention the stuff that he video'd and sent to other members of the family. I am not sure that what he did was forgiveable and I have no sympathy for him whatsoever anymore.

In summary I don't believe that depression excuses selfishness - especially when you have children that you have brought into this world.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[skittles_of_SDC 0]

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Quote

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-there's always someone who cares and
-there's always people left behind who suffer even more because of such an action.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Neither of which are reasons to keep living the hell that severe depression brings.

I agree.

I hate when people say it's so selfish of someone to commit suicide because of the people they leave behind. To me it's selfish of the "people left behind" to think they're more important. If someone is truly in that much pain and chooses to die, they should have that option.

Having just lost my brother in law to suicide in a most bizarre and twisted manner - having a DVD of his death made by his girlfriend and mailed to his 12 year old daughter and ex wife as a "goodbye" message from dad it was the most selfish and twisted act that I have ever come across. I am not denying that he was seriously mentally ill - but he has caused severe mental harm to 3 or 4 children (he had 5 - but I am not sure the youngest comprehend what went on) not to mention the stuff that he video'd and sent to other members of the family. I am not sure that what he did was forgiveable and I have no sympathy for him whatsoever anymore.

In summary I don't believe that depression excuses selfishness - especially when you have children that you have brought into this world.

That's completely twisted and inexcusable but I have to agree with Sunny. Calling someone selfish for taking their life is ridiculous. Basically what you are saying is your happiness (of having them in your life) is more important than their happiness (which the ending of their life will bring). That's selfish.

[SarahC07 0]

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-there's always someone who cares and
-there's always people left behind who suffer even more because of such an action.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Neither of which are reasons to keep living the hell that severe depression brings.

I agree.

I hate when people say it's so selfish of someone to commit suicide because of the people they leave behind. To me it's selfish of the "people left behind" to think they're more important. If someone is truly in that much pain and chooses to die, they should have that option.

Agreed.

[popsjumper 2]

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In summary I don't believe that depression excuses selfishness - especially when you have children that you have brought into this world. ]/reply]

Looks to me like you are, one or the other or all of:
a) misinterpreting the intent of the DVD
b) confusing being an asshole with selfishness
c) having no empathy for the guys' state of mind
d) over-reacting
e) giving the kids an impression that supports the idea that whatever he did is mentally damaging them.
f) having trouble dealing with your own emotions about this event

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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[Viking 0]

JP fucking crazy monkey.

I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver
My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin

[popsjumper 2]

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I once knew a woman at work whose father shot himself right in front of her and her sister when they were both young girls. He obviously had no right to subject his children to something like that.

So really, your problem is with HOW he did it and I would agree that his method was an asshole way of doing it.

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I've wanted to end my life, but I'm glad I haven't so far. I've got a wife and two daughters who would be devastated if I ever did something like that. And I watched my parents after my brother died of cancer and saw how that tore them apart. They're so much older now, I could NEVER make them have to deal with another one of their children dying, let alone through suicide.

That's nice. "I haven't reached the bottom yet so you must be selfish because you DID reach the bottom."
Nice.

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People think having rights gives us a blank check to do whatever we want. That simply isn't true, ...

Sorry but it is true. Rights empower us with just that. You must be thinking of trying to extend those rights beyond the boundary of empowerment.

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...because everything we do, great or small, has consequences......but we also have the obligation to consider the consequences of what we do.

Hmmmmmm....selfishness....obligations....consequences....where is the line?
Is one supposed to dedicate their entire life to being so considerate of others that there is no room for their own wants and needs?
Is everything we do that is for our own personal benefit/detriment to be deemed a selfish act?
Are we obligated to live in hell because someone else is going to have problems with us leaving?
Are we to be enslaved by potential consequences of our actions?

I hardly think so.
My book reads a bit differently.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[steve1 5]

Suicide kills thousands of people every year. For young people it is the biggest killer next to accidents. You can't really understand depression unless you have been there. It's something that reaches the deepest depths of your soul and doesn't leave.

It's interesting how many skydiver have come forth and said that they are suffering from one form of depression or another.

Maybe I'm off on this, but I believe the adrenaline sports have large numbers of depressed people who participate. It's a way of escaping the boredom and pain of depression. Adrenaline is very adictive and can take the place of the numbness of depression.

I too suffer from depression. Right now I'm trying to cope with it with exercise. I hope to get back in the air when the weather improves. Exercise doesn't work as well as medication, but it does help. I think it may have saved my life when I was younger. For many people something as simple as exercise is not enough.

There are a lot of different ant-depressant medications out there. Most have sided affects that may be hard to live with. Welbrutan may have the least, but it may not work very well for many people. The SSRI medications can cause sexual problems in both men and women. This percentage is much higher than thought earlier. Then there are bi-polar medications. Some have down right scary side affects.

Most of my relatives are alcoholics. That is how they cope. Depression is not something you just get over. It doesn't mean you are weak, if you have depression. I wish society would lose that idea.

March is the worst month for suicide according to statistics. Be observant. Most people who commit suicide show signs. You may be able to convince someone to get the help they need. Be a good listener. Most suicidal people need someone to listen. They don't need a truck load of advice.

There was a skydiver from California who was on this site nearly everyday. He left behind two little girls when he committed suicide. It's easy to judge, and say he did the wrong thing. I just wish he could have gotten help in time. Maybe it wouldn't have happened.....

[poe62 0]

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if you havent been through it, major depression is hell mate..
...and usually it doesnt just go away like that. like all your friends try to make you believe. its truely hell on earth.. i can understand someone trying to finish themselve off just too damn well..

Exactly...I've been through clinical depression too. People don't understand.

I've had 6 friends and a family member who have killed themselves. It breaks my heart. However, calling someone selfish when they take their life because it will hurt those left behind makes no sense to me. Some DO try to get help. Sometimes it just doesn't work. I agree with others who have said someone who suffers in life so much to stay around for more pain because it will hurt others is selfish on their end. I know that doesn't make sense to some people...

~Nikki
http://www.facebook.com/poe62

Irgity Dirgity

[elias123 0]

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a 'coward's way' of dealing with life

there are so many people who care for you, you still feel you can't share your feelings and ask for help. Why go to such an extreme!? So what if life isn't going the way you want it? At least it's still life!!!!

that there's always someone who cares and there's always people left behind who suffer even more because of such an action. Sheesh!

Giving up should never be an option

Some people, and I'm not being personal here, can't/won't/will never understand.

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[airtwardo 6]

Hmmmmmm....selfishness....obligations....consequences....where is the line?