hard pulls on reserves - common?

[lynxie 0]

how often do you re-pack reserves which you had to use >40 lbs to pull the pin?

-- "If you can dream it, you can DO IT!" --

[Tonto 1]

I'm not a rigger.

I think there is a limit of 22lbs for a reserve pull?

40 lbs seems like a bit of a problem.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[masterrig 1]

You're right. Maximum pull is 22-lbs.


Chuck

[riggerrob 558]

Never seen a 40 pound ripcord pull.
I saw one that required a 35 pound pull, but 25 or 30 is the most you are likely to see.
Since the legal limit is 22 pounds, most riggers pack in the 15 to 20 pound range.

[masterrig 1]

I've never seen a 40lb. ripcord pull either. Don't think I'd want to either. Not to mention the damage it would/could cause..


Chuck

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

how often do you re-pack reserves which you had to use >40 lbs to pull the pin?

Not good.

Can you post :

Reserve type and size?

Container size?


Keepin' it safe!
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[diablopilot 2]

I think you'd see some pretty major bin bending at that point.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mark 102]

Quote

I think you'd see some pretty major bin bending at that point.

I don't think you could count on that. That is, I don't think you could predict a less than 40-pound pull just because the pin is straight.

From a packing point of view, the tough part is not breaking the closing loop.

I'd be interested in knowing how the test was conducted. What was the direction of pull? Pulling up or at a right angle to the harness can significantly increase the required pull force.

Mark

[pchapman 261]

Riggerrob wrote:

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I saw one that required a 35 pound pull, but 25 or 30 is the most you are likely to see.

I've only seen over 40 once (actually 45 lbs) that I recall, but that was on an unusual old rig.*

I do see 25-30 from time to time on rigs where effort has been put into packing the rig with a very short loop.

Do riggers really bother with the 22 lb limit all the time??

Some jumpers want super tight rigs, and even with careful packing techniques (at least, the best I can do as a moderately experienced rigger in a reasonable time frame), the pull force after packing may be over 22. Sometimes it comes down after waiting overnight, but not always.

(And how does it ever go up again? How else does a 22 eventually end up as 25-30?)

I'd like to know how common it is for riggers to fudge on the 22! Can't say I haven't done it, when the jumper really really wants the loop even tighter.

I notice a lot of packing cards from the USA don't list the results of the pull test. (In Canada the results are almost always noted. It's handy for evaluating how snug to pack the reserve or whether to change the loop length.) I assume riggers in the USA still do the pull test, just that there's no requirement to log it on the packing card?


* The odd rig was an old 2 pin rig (Wonderhog or similar) converted by someone else from a single running loop with a round reserve to 2 short Cypres loops not going throught the square freebag (through the flaps only), plus a strong Vector II PC. Not quite sure why the forces were so high, but new grommets and longer loops improved things greatly.

[ladyskydiver 0]

[slight hijack]
When you're mentioning 35 pound pull, 22 pound pull, etc., does that mean how much force is required to get the reserve out?

If so and those that are packed at higher pound pulls, how much additional risk does that have for a smaller jumper trying to get their reserve out?
[/slight hijack]

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[pchapman 261]

Quote

does that mean how much force is required to get the reserve out?
If so and those that are packed at higher pound pulls, how much additional risk does that have for a smaller jumper trying to get their reserve out?

Yes it is the force to pull the reserve.

But to get technical there are some differences between the rigger's test pull and the jumper's actual reserve pull:

a) It is tested with the handle already out of its pouch (or off its velcro for a soft handle).
But depending on the slack in the ripcord, and angle of pull, I figure that extracting the handle normally takes place before trying to pull the pin, so the two forces don't add together.

b) It is tested without the seal thread.
That can add to the maximum pull force experienced by the user.

c) It is tested with a slow gradual pull to see what force moves the pin appreciably. (Without actually pulling it out all the way.) An actual pull will usually be done quickly, building up extra force as the ripcord handle reaches the end of its slack before yanking on the pin. That effectively increases the person's pull strength.

As for the risk... don't know but that's one of the concerns in this discussion.

It's not just about the force required but what jumpers are led to expect. Even if a person is strong enough, if they expect a certain amount of effort, and the first pull doesn't do the job, it's a waste of precious time to give it that 2nd stronger pull.

One easy conclusion is of course to put the gear on and pop the reserve yourself from time to time when taking it in for a repack.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Cool! Thanks! Appreciate the info.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[skydiverek 55]

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a) It is tested with the handle already out of its pouch (or off its velcro for a soft handle).

>>> Hence importance of peel-and-pull with soft reserve (and cutaway) handles.

[billvon 2,400]

We had a jumper down here who had a slightly loose poptop on a Racer. A local rigger "helped him out" by tightening it down. At the next repack cycle, we saw ~60lbs pull force; the pins had been bent. Note that Racers have two pins so the potential increase in pull force is greater.

[nitrochute 2]

i once saw a 65 pound pull.it was the result of one rigger who decided to shorten up the loop on a vector to tidy up an existing pack job. this guy is still in business on the east coast selling gear.BE VERY AFRAID

[cvfd1399 0]

I was thinking about this the other day. I was using a student dolphin rig for the first time while I make some downsizing jumps. I tried to pull the reserve handle out of it's holder and it was a bitch for me. Mind you I am 6'3 260. The way it is sandwiched in between the 2 pieces of MLW and had velcro in between that made it hard as hell to get out.

[riggerrob 558]

Hint, grab the handle, twist it out of the pocket to clear the Velcro, then start pulling on the cable.

[sundevil777 93]

Pull force should be possible to evaluate by attempting to move the pin by pulling on the cable right at the pin. Of course you should be very careful to limit the movement, but I think it should be possible to know if the force is so high that further investigation/measurment is needed.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[skydiverek 55]

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The way it is sandwiched in between the 2 pieces of MLW and had velcro in between that made it hard as hell to get out.

Sandy Reid was talking about an incident where the jumper could not cutaway during the hard spinning malfunction. He was trying to peel and pull, but the problem was that the hign load on the MLW put tension on the two layers of MLW that "hard sandwitched" the cutaway handle. So, the problem was not velcro, but the two layers of MLW squizing the handle. That's why Voodoo is designed to prevent that (handle not between two layers of MLW, but instead in the seperate "compartment" on top of MLW).

[cvfd1399 0]

That is what I was getting at. Even on the ground it was hard to twist, pull, pry the handle out. It might have been that noone had taken it out in a while, and the velcro had taken on a "set".