Why is the Chrysler hemi engine supposed to be so good?

[sundevil777 94]

Way back when it was first introduced, 4 valve per cylinder engines were rare in cars. Now 4 valves/cyl is very common, and all of those engines are effectively also hemis. I don't get it, as a 2 valve/cyl hemi usually has a highly domed cylinder head and piston, which are very troublesome in terms of causing preignition and getting good emissions. 2 valve designs have no advantage except in cost.

I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Also, is a Chrysler still an American car? If it is, then so are most of the Hondas sold in this country. The Dodge Challenger hemi engines are made in Mexico, the car assembled in Ontario. Even a Ford F-150 has quite a low domestic content, about 60% if I remember correctly.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[airtwardo 6]

I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

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Bingo... the less informed equate hemi to horsepower, goes back to the muscle cars days of the 60's.

Back then GM use to say, nothing makes horsepower like cubic inches...Mopar said, 'wanna bet?'

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 3]

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I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Yep. The fact is, the Chrysler "Hemi" of today doesn't actually use a hemispherical head in its engine; it's simply a Trademark.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[sundevil777 94]

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I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Yep. The fact is, the Chrysler "Hemi" of today isn't actually a hemispherical engine; it's simply a Trademark.

What? Is there something fundamentally different about it compared to the old design?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[quade 3]

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I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Yep. The fact is, the Chrysler "Hemi" of today isn't actually a hemispherical engine; it's simply a Trademark.

What? Is there something fundamentally different about it compared to the old design?

Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi_engine#Chrysler

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shah269 0]

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I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Yep. The fact is, the Chrysler "Hemi" of today doesn't actually use a hemispherical head in its engine; it's simply a Trademark.

+1!
Yeah nothing amazing could be much better but your average consumer doesn't like too many different things especially since they really don't understand what is under the hood.
Sadly my 20 valve engine with it's little turbo is more efficient per CC. But it also does require more work and most people are just not into that. Thus why here in the US we have a large number of rather "dumb" engines that just "work".
But yeah, it's just a trade mark that people understand or think that they do.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[sundevil777 94]

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I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Yep. The fact is, the Chrysler "Hemi" of today isn't actually a hemispherical engine; it's simply a Trademark.

What? Is there something fundamentally different about it compared to the old design?

Yep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi_engine#Chrysler

OK, so it is a "pinched" hemi shape, whatever. Flat bottom valves prevent the combustion chamber from actually being a continuous shape anyway, so it isn't such a stretch to other mods of the shape anyway.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[quade 3]

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Yeah nothing amazing could be much better but your average consumer doesn't like too many different things especially since they really don't understand what is under the hood.

In defense of the common man, most consumers have absolutely no idea how 99.9% of anything they use works or is manufactured.

I was mulling this very fact over the other night while sipping a glass of Scotch. The Scotch is made the same way it has been for over a hundred years. How many other things do you interact with today can honestly claim that?

I don't begrudge innovation or attempting to make a better product, but if they're going to give something a name, it should represent what it really is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

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I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Yep. The fact is, the Chrysler "Hemi" of today isn't actually a hemispherical engine; it's simply a Trademark.

What? Is there something fundamentally different about it compared to the old design?

Yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi_engine#Chrysler

OK, so it is a "pinched" hemi shape, whatever. Flat bottom valves prevent the combustion chamber from actually being a continuous shape anyway, so it isn't such a stretch to other mods of the shape anyway.

Except there's more to it than that. The new shape does a hell of a lot more and the valve geometry requires everything outside to be significantly different as well.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 6]

Chamber pic looks like ET will a ball-gag!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[shah269 0]

So why only valves per cylinder? Isn't it....a bit....of out of date technology?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[ECVZZ 0]

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So why only valves per cylinder? Isn't it....a bit....of out of date technology?

Depends on a lot of things. Not the least of which is valve head diameter, lift and duration, and how the intake/exhaust is designed to flow (usually stated simply as how the head is "flowed"). Also, how well the combustion chamber volumes are matched. Balanced engines will have the heads "CC'd" for an exact match. Even the actual valve material will be taken into consideration.

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

[squirrel 0]

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Yeah nothing amazing could be much better but your average consumer doesn't like too many different things especially since they really don't understand what is under the hood.

In defense of the common man, most consumers have absolutely no idea how 99.9% of anything they use works or is manufactured.

I was mulling this very fact over the other night while sipping a glass of Scotch. The Scotch is made the same way it has been for over a hundred years. How many other things do you interact with today can honestly claim that?

I don't begrudge innovation or attempting to make a better product, but if they're going to give something a name, it should represent what it really is.

i read your response with a Sean Connery accent/voice....works very well. (never mind, just my random tangent mind thinking out loud.

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[Amazon 7]

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Way back when it was first introduced, 4 valve per cylinder engines were rare in cars. Now 4 valves/cyl is very common, and all of those engines are effectively also hemis. I don't get it, as a 2 valve/cyl hemi usually has a highly domed cylinder head and piston, which are very troublesome in terms of causing preignition and getting good emissions. 2 valve designs have no advantage except in cost.

I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Also, is a Chrysler still an American car? If it is, then so are most of the Hondas sold in this country. The Dodge Challenger hemi engines are made in Mexico, the car assembled in Ontario. Even a Ford F-150 has quite a low domestic content, about 60% if I remember correctly.

If you really want want to know.. go buy one of the care
s with the 426...1970 and before and go D R I V E it.... all will be revealed to you!!!!

[sundevil777 94]

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Way back when it was first introduced, 4 valve per cylinder engines were rare in cars. Now 4 valves/cyl is very common, and all of those engines are effectively also hemis. I don't get it, as a 2 valve/cyl hemi usually has a highly domed cylinder head and piston, which are very troublesome in terms of causing preignition and getting good emissions. 2 valve designs have no advantage except in cost.

I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Also, is a Chrysler still an American car? If it is, then so are most of the Hondas sold in this country. The Dodge Challenger hemi engines are made in Mexico, the car assembled in Ontario. Even a Ford F-150 has quite a low domestic content, about 60% if I remember correctly.

If you really want want to know.. go buy one of the care
s with the 426...1970 and before and go D R I V E it.... all will be revealed to you!!!!

I've been there, done that.

Of course much bigger valves and better manifold flow means improved power compared to a wedge combustion chamber.

That was a long time ago. More powerful designs are now quite common.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[warpedskydiver 0]

Nothing quite like effective respirationhttp://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o42/warped60120/R8V10Biturbo.jpg

[Krip 2]

Hi 777

I'm so confused always have been and always will be.

If someone wants to buy a real hemi I assume they are available at a cost.

Just becuase a One jump tandem person want to call themselves a one jump tandem skydiver, some of us know whats really going on.

It's called maketing, selling the brand. Just because a someone in the marketing dept comes up with a BS sales pitch. Withour performing due dilengce madison ave, politicans etc will get you in the butt every time.

The housing market has never gone south, Zero down loans buy more than you can afford appreciation will make up the diff etc etc.

I'm not a car guy but met some good old boy's from south texas and the carolinia's in the mid 60's.

327's 396 , Want more power no problemo. 427 ci with 2ea 4 barrell carbs and a hi top intake manifold and header exhausts. I didn't heven have a drivers liscense didn't know squat but I watched the best.

Not even Tim the tool man in his never ending quest for "More Power" would fall for a half assed marketing gimmick. Maybe a big time rookie that is to busy read the instructions would fall for the Marketing dept BS.

IMO no way is a real car guy going to fall for the BS I'm reading in this thread (I'm not a real car guy)

Chyrseler may own the copywrite to the name chrysler hemi engine so they can use it for whatever they want. But imo no way is a real car guy going to get snookered.

I know nothing about cars But from what i'm reading in thus thread with the links.

I think I could pop the hood of a new car look at a newer Chrysler hemi engine and give the sales dude "the look" and walk away.

Even I know the difference between a big block hemi and a highly tuned race modified rice burner whoopie car.

To quote a famous australian croc hunter from the movies: That little swithbade thats not a knife. This is a knife as he pulls out a super size bowie knife.

Even with gas at $.25/gal the gas mileage and premium fuel required for hi compression 427 with dual carbs was pricey so we all had to chip in for gas.

Just for S&G my bud would turn his keys over to valet parking to "park it" in Dallas tex. The noise of the valet racing up the ramps as fast as he dared with the 4 spd manual jaming gears after he's got the rpms to the max etc was pricelss

That not a knife this is a knife

One Jump Wonder

[sundevil777 94]

I do consider their engines to still be a hemi, even if it is a squished polyspheric hemi. However, hemi engines are quite commonplace, so they are no longer special. Their marketing pretends that they are special in that regard.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Krip 2]

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I do consider their engines to still be a hemi, even if it is a squished polyspheric hemi. However, hemi engines are quite commonplace, so they are no longer special. Their marketing pretends that they are special in that regard.

Hi 777

I'm not a car guy plus I'm old
I respect your opinon on what a hemi is your the man if you say it is than it is.
If you respond can you include the HP rateing of both "types of hemi's. I could google it but if you got it in your brain save this lazy old fart the chance of screwing it up.

I realize most of the time women are correct, size doesn't matter, heavier isn't stonger etc. is the new technology so good that it's that efficent to match or exceed the old stuff?

The advancement in the pc industry is mind boggling especially when we don't have kids

One Jump Wonder

[billvon 2,406]

>I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

It's definitely all about marketing. "Triple hopped." "Frost brewed." "As cold as the Rockies." Whatever makes people buy the product.

[LongWayToFall 0]

The original Hemi was a good design. The main problem though, is that if you use flat top pistons, you are going to need one giant stroke to get your compression ratio up. Hence, where they do their best is forced induction. Take a look at this pic:
http://image.carcraft.com/f/29970262/ccrp_1009_03_o+8000hp_top_fuel_engine+cylinder_head.jpg

That is off of a top fuel engine. 8000hp!!! Obviously the chamber shape is a good one, it is just hard to use it properly in a street setting.

The best design now a days, is the pent roof chamber. Take a look at any modern motorcycle, and you can see what they look like. Nobody is getting close to the hp that they are getting per cc. 12.5:1 compression ratio, STOCK! That is amazing on pump gas. You have to have a great engine to avoid knock at that compression ratio.

[davelepka 4]

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However, hemi engines are quite commonplace, so they are no longer special. Their marketing pretends that they are special in that regard.

The marketing does employ their historical significance, but at the same time, the current Hemi is the highest powered engines they offer, so in that sense, the are 'special'.

The reason they are more commonplace then in years past is the manufacturing efficiency of the company. When the original Hemis were introduced, auto manufacturers offered scores of different cars, engines, and options to the consumer. Fun for us, a manufacturing nightmare for them.

In today's world, it's all about platforms and packages. They'll produce a couple of major platforms, and then re-body them to make 3 or 4 different models. They'll offer two, maybe three, different powerplant/powertrain options across the platform, reducing the R&D, manufacturing, and parts supply costs.

So when the Hemi came out, you could get any one of a half-dozen different V-8 engines, with different intake options to make even more choices. So in those days, a Hemi could be more rare in a dealership full of V-8 muscle cars. Now they only offer the one V-8, that being the new 'Hemi', so you see them all over the place.

Sooner or later that prevalance will burn out the cache of the 'Hemi' and it will go away again.

[davelepka 4]

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So why only valves per cylinder? Isn't it....a bit....of out of date technology?

I don't know how many valves you're talking about because you left that out of your post, but the answer whatever that number was, is that they use enough valves to reach their goals of power, efficiency, longevity, and manufacturing cost.

Take a lawn mower, for example. Very low HP per CC, but they run reliably for years with almost zero maintenance, and make enough power to turn the blades. What's wron with that?

To take another angle, your 20v turbo motor, I'm guessing it's a VW/Audi product, and it has cams, so I have to ask, what's up with the cams? Seems outdated to me, F1 teams have been using pneumatic valve actualtion for years, with a high degree of precision and reliability, so what's up with your 'old school' motor, and it's cams and related mechanical components?

The answer is the same answer to your question above, there is a difference between the top of the technological mountain, and the technology required to perform a certain task. If a machine meets it's intended goals, then the technology employed in it's design is 'correct'.

[sundevil777 94]

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The original Hemi was a good design. The main problem though, is that if you use flat top pistons, you are going to need one giant stroke to get your compression ratio up. Hence, where they do their best is forced induction. Take a look at this pic:
http://image.carcraft.com/f/29970262/ccrp_1009_03_o+8000hp_top_fuel_engine+cylinder_head.jpg

That is off of a top fuel engine. 8000hp!!! Obviously the chamber shape is a good one, it is just hard to use it properly in a street setting.

The best design now a days, is the pent roof chamber. Take a look at any modern motorcycle, and you can see what they look like. Nobody is getting close to the hp that they are getting per cc. 12.5:1 compression ratio, STOCK! That is amazing on pump gas. You have to have a great engine to avoid knock at that compression ratio.

Of course all engines do best when stuff is pumped/pushed into them!

The old hemi was quite oversquare, and high domed pistons were common, IIRC. Such pistons promote preignition and poor emission results.

The current Chrysler hemi doesn't isn't noteworthy in terms of its power/displacement. It isn't noteworthy in terms of its combustion chamber shape. It does bring back images (to some) of exciting muscle cars from long ago...marketing.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kallend 1,635]

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Way back when it was first introduced, 4 valve per cylinder engines were rare in cars. Now 4 valves/cyl is very common, and all of those engines are effectively also hemis. I don't get it, as a 2 valve/cyl hemi usually has a highly domed cylinder head and piston, which are very troublesome in terms of causing preignition and getting good emissions. 2 valve designs have no advantage except in cost.

I think it is all about marketing to the ignorant.

Also, is a Chrysler still an American car? If it is, then so are most of the Hondas sold in this country. The Dodge Challenger hemi engines are made in Mexico, the car assembled in Ontario. Even a Ford F-150 has quite a low domestic content, about 60% if I remember correctly.

Multi-valve (>2) per cylinder engines have been around for nearly 100 years, even in production cars.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.