Motorcycle helmet - problems?

[dorbie 0]

What are the thoughts on jumping with a full face motorcycle helmet (I have a flip up chin configuration in mind)?

I have a big brand open face skydiving helmet now (probably one of the most respected names but I'm not going to get into naming) but its minimalist internal cloth padding is making me consider the better protection of motorcycle lid.

Are motorcycle helmets considered too bulky or heavy or inadequate visibility for skydiving? Has anyone tried them?

Would anyone recommend a full face skydiving helmet manufacturer with a bit more robust blunt impact protection.

[mattjw916 2]

I wouldn't jump any of my full-face motorcycle helmets personally... wrong application and they are designed to be aerodynamic when the wind hits them dead on to the front or with a slight yaw... not from the bottom or top potentially. Plus the protruding chin on typical motorcycle helmets would probably cause it to get blown up and out of optimal position.

I have tried a number of skydiving full-face helmets and the Bonehead Havok seemed to be very robust... although I like the Factory Diver better. My $0.02.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[piisfish 135]

it would certainly offer the best protection against big impacts, but certainly the bulk of the helmet and the restricted movement and visibility are not worth it...

well the bulk of camera helmets with 2 stills, 1 video and a flash is certainly worse

but we still have to do a 2way biker dive at our DZ... With leather, helmets and boots... So once I do it, I'll keep you updated...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[dorbie 0]

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I have tried a number of skydiving full-face helmets and the Bonehead Havok seemed to be very robust... although I like the Factory Diver better. My $0.02.

OK, here's the thing, I like the Havok, it is exactly what I have in mind and it would be my choice except that my current helmet is a bonehead mindwarp and the padding seems a bit slim and easily compressible. Probably the same for most skydiving helmets but that's my concern.

[mattjw916 2]

If you are hitting the ground hard enough that the padding in a skydiving helmet is insufficient, you probably have bigger problems that a motorcycle helmet won't solve...

BTW, I will skydive without a helmet... but I never ride any of my motorcycles without one. Go figure.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[dorbie 0]

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If you are hitting the ground hard enough that the padding in a skydiving helmet is insufficient, you probably have bigger problems that a motorcycle helmet won't solve...

You certainly have big problems :-), but I figure a shell is minimalist protection, it might help if someone tries to stab me in the head but substantial impact protection comes from space and firmness to prolong and reduce deceleration forces. If you need it you need it and many head injuries have a lot to do with your brain whacking against the inside of your own skull.

[pilotdave 0]

You are right. Skydiving helmets are not tested for safety. Until skydivers start demanding safety, manufacturers are not going to spend the money it will take to properly design and test their products. Lots of people will tell you a protec is the safest helmet you can get for skydiving. It's got some certification, which makes it the most tested helmet, but there's no way to compare it to any other helmet since the rest are untested. Is a full face helmet safer than an open face? Well, without real impact testing, you can't know for sure... at least for significant impacts.

But most people don't wear skydiving helmets for serious impacts. We wear em for minor impacts, head strikes on exit, kicks in freefall, wiind protection, and minor fall protection. For those sorts of things, you don't need the safety of a motorcycle helmet.

I'd love to see someone write a standard for skydiving helmets. It's pointless to certify our helmets to the standards used for other sports, since we have different requirements. But I really wonder what would happen if someone came out with a helmet that has actually met a set of defined requirements. Would safety sell?

Dave

[crotalus01 0]

motorcycle helmets are not contoured enought to the face to jump for me. i no longer wear a fullface helmet on my bike but the ones i had i would never jump. keep in mind that many motorcycle helmets (if not all) will shatter if impacted with a lot of force - one of the major problems i have with helmet laws.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[mattjw916 2]

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shatter if impacted with a lot of force

...so will your skull dude.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[mjosparky 3]

Would you want to take a hard opening with a full face M/C helmet on your head? Sure would be a pain in the neck. Just a thought.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[indyz 1]

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keep in mind that many motorcycle helmets (if not all) will shatter if impacted with a lot of force

That's not a problem, it's a feature. Much of the energy that would otherwise crack your skull and scramble your brains is instead used up in shattering the shell of the helmet.

[f1shlips 2]

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Is a full face helmet safer than an open face?

Current motorcycle helmets aren't tested for that either.

FMVSS218 is the safety standard.

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We wear em for minor impacts

Yup, skid injuries. That's all they need to do, besides hold an audible or camera.

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Would safety sell?

I believe protecs meet some sort of protection standard. How well do those sell to skydivers?

--
drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend.

[AggieDave 6]

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I believe protecs meet some sort of protection standard

I've posted about that before, its a new standard for skateboard helmets, testing blunt impact and abrasion. Its a lower standard then motorcycle and automobile helmets, but its something. How many folks wear them? Quite a few skydivers wear Pro-Tecs actually, and not just students, but the number is a LOT lower then skydivers that wear something else that's not really useful. Atleast people tend to buy the fiberglass or carbon fiber helmets then something 100% worthless for protection like a Gath or a Fraphat.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[PhreeZone 15]

Visability can be limited in the edges of your vision with most MC helmets I've seen. Another issue is that with the larger size of the overall helmet it can be squeezed between the risers and prevents you from moving your head to look around.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[GravityGirl 0]

Hard opening with a heavy motorcycle helmet....

....icky....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[skydiverton 0]

I do not like helmets in skydiving or riding my bike.
During skydiving I can choose myself.
On my bike I want to choose, but the police officer does not like my way of thinking

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[f1shlips 2]

I prefer a frap hat. The meet the kind of protection I'm looking for.

Personally, I think the protection argument for skydiving helmets is silly.

Head injuries, or more specifically Tramautic Brain Injuries (TBI) cannot be prevented by wearing a "magic safety hat". Your brain is slosh into the back (contre-coup) and then the front (coup) of your skull if you stop your skull fast enough.

A good quality motorcycle helmet, with about 2" of high quality foam, will help reduce the likelyhood of TBI up to 11-15 mph, like your head striking an object at 11-15 mph (your mirror as you flip over the handlebars).

The added weight of a motorcycle helmet increases the likelyhood of recieving a basal skull fracture, which is always fatal. A brain injury isn't.

Motorcycle helmets, skydiving helmets, and the like are pretty good at preventing skid injuries, but I wouldn't trust my brain to one.

--
drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend.

[councilman24 36]

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The added weight of a motorcycle helmet increases the likelyhood of recieving a basal skull fracture, which is always fatal. A brain injury isn't.

The STANDARD skydiving helmet for years was the Bell open face motorcyle helmet. You were hot shit in a Bell and a chump in anything else. Motorcyle helmets can and have been used for skydiving. My first 35 mm SLR was mounted on a cheapo open face motorcyle helmet.

But, I wouldn't try a full face unless you removed the visor. If you don't my guess is the wind will. And they really are pretting bulky.

What we don't see any more are hockey helmets. (with out the cage) They used to be pretty popular in the early 80's.

Part of the reason I haven't bought a new "cool" skydiving hard hat is the lack or any real shock absorption. If I want a hard hat I put on the protec. BTW I've see a chin/face guard somewhere for the protec, as well as a replacement liner used for the military that improves the padding.

Down hill skiing helmets are another "uncool" chioce. But if they didn't have the provision for ski goggles you almost couldn't tell they weren't purpose built for skydiving.

I'm still looking and waiting for something I like.

I had a good friend killed in pre cypres days when she hit her head (in a frap hat) on the door of a DC-3 and fell unconcious to the ground. The only guy that realize she was in trouble was to low to get back to her. Helmets are a good thing. (Hey, Martha can't use the line anymore.)

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[piisfish 135]

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Hard opening with a heavy motorcycle helmet....

....icky....

actually my MC helmet is lighter and has less things sticking out than my (or many people's) video helmet

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[airtwardo 6]

I have an F-16 fighter pilots helmet that
works well in regard to your concerns.

Carbon Fiber shell and plenty of internal padding.
Extremely lightweight and strong.
The downside being the $500.00 price tag.

That being said, I personally use a frap hat on most
dives because I travel a lot and it's easier to pack.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mjosparky 3]

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I have an F-16 fighter pilots helmet that
works well in regard to your concerns.

Carbon Fiber shell and plenty of internal padding.
Extremely lightweight and strong.
The downside being the $500.00 price tag.

That being said, I personally use a frap hat on most
dives because I travel a lot and it's easier to pack.

Have you checked the price lately. Joe gave me a new one for my birthday a couple of years ago, with com. over $800.00. But I am worth it.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

$800 is extremely cheap for a real GENTEX with coms. FWIW, I still have mine and it's a fantastic helmet for winter riding on my Harley (along with my Scott motocross goggles with rock guard). The only jumping it sees these days is for military demos.

Chuck

[pilotdave 0]

Part of my point was that just because the protec meets some standard doesn't mean it is any safer than any other helmet out there. Skydiving helmets haven't been tested to any standard. Who knows if they protect or actually cause more damage than no helmet in a more severe impact. A poorly placed rivet or hinge could concentrate a moderate impact force and cause more damage than not wearing a helmet. A shattered visor could cause eye damage. Stuff like that. Ya can't talk about one helmet being safer than another unless both have been tested.

Meeting a standard is good, but the standard has to match the activity too.

Dave

Dave

[airtwardo 6]

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$800 is extremely cheap for a real GENTEX with coms.

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I got mine several years ago...prices may vary!

No com or O2 hardware with it...no visor ect.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[dorbie 0]

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I prefer a frap hat. The meet the kind of protection I'm looking for.

Personally, I think the protection argument for skydiving helmets is silly.

Head injuries, or more specifically Tramautic Brain Injuries (TBI) cannot be prevented by wearing a "magic safety hat". Your brain is slosh into the back (contre-coup) and then the front (coup) of your skull if you stop your skull fast enough.

A good quality motorcycle helmet, with about 2" of high quality foam, will help reduce the likelyhood of TBI up to 11-15 mph, like your head striking an object at 11-15 mph (your mirror as you flip over the handlebars).

The added weight of a motorcycle helmet increases the likelyhood of recieving a basal skull fracture, which is always fatal. A brain injury isn't.

Motorcycle helmets, skydiving helmets, and the like are pretty good at preventing skid injuries, but I wouldn't trust my brain to one.

I'd trust my brain to an MC helmet before I'd trust it to a typical skydiving helmet. The lack of absolute protection does not make a case for almost no protection.

I can understand the arguments w.r.t. hard openings (although a camera helmet seems worse considering the mass and the longer moment of inertia around the neck) however saying better protection only prevents TBI for relatively low impact seems to ignore the point, reducing impact forces with a thicker layer of foam preventing TBI is a good thing but it also reduces the severity of potentially fatal injuries. This is not a binary thing and I don't think this is about surviving a truly high speed impact. It's just that if I'm shopping for a helmet I might as well consider real protection if it is an option, even 1 inch of foam would be better than a 1/4 inch compressible soft cloth pad and some foams can be nice and light especially if they're something like a sacrificial bicycle helmet.

I'm definitely off the MC helmet idea now but maybe I'll get creative with an oversized havok.