councilman24 36 #1 September 7, 2004 Didn't see it anywhere else. Copied from PIA Rigger forum post. Link is in German. "Post subject: Next Reserve pin Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:31 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New Paratec (Germany) Bulletin http://www.prueferverband.de/Sicherheit/TM-SB/SIMI-04-04%20Next.pdf About not good pressed Reserve pins. The Round are bad, the Flat pressed are good. All Next Systems (Student, Sport and Tandem) are grounded Until they are inspected Only the flat pressed are acceptable If you find a round one Contact the Manufacturer Wim" Chairman, PIA Rigging CommitteeI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #2 September 7, 2004 One reason it is not in most USA sites, the Next is not TSO'ed, not legal in USA. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #3 September 7, 2004 Quotenot legal in USA. Not legal for a US jumper in the USA.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 September 7, 2004 QuoteNot legal for a US jumper in the USA. Or for US riggers to work on for ANY jumper.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #5 September 8, 2004 QuoteOr for US riggers to work on for ANY jumper. Probably deserves a separate thread, but what happens to a foreign jumper who has a malfunction on non-TSO'd equipment? Are they SOL? Can a foreign rigger work on and certify their gear in the US? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #6 September 8, 2004 QuoteQuotenot legal in USA. Not legal for a US jumper in the USA. Point well taken, but it still does not show up on most USA sites. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #7 September 8, 2004 Quote QuoteOr for US riggers to work on for ANY jumper. Probably deserves a separate thread, but what happens to a foreign jumper who has a malfunction on non-TSO'd equipment? Are they SOL? Can a foreign rigger work on and certify their gear in the US? - Jim Reference Part 105.49. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markbaur 0 #8 September 8, 2004 JP - What regulation prevents an FAA-certificated rigger from working on non-TSO'd equipment? Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #9 September 8, 2004 Quote(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft with an unapproved foreign parachute system unless-- (1) The parachute system is worn by a foreign parachutist who is the owner of that system. (2) The parachute system is of a single-harness dual parachute type. (3) The parachute system meets the civil aviation authority requirements of the foreign parachutist's country. (4) All foreign non-approved parachutes deployed by a foreign parachutist during a parachute operation conducted under this section shall be packed as follows-- (i) The main parachute must be packed by the foreign parachutist making the next parachute jump with that parachute, a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator. (ii) The reserve parachute must be packed in accordance with the foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements, by a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator. This may have been clarified since my last reading of it, but I thought the original wording made it more clear that it would have to be packed by a rigger rated in the jumpers country of origin. Maybe that is not so. So if a forign jumper has a ride and is repacked by an FAA rigger, but their country's regulatory body has a longer than 120 day repack cycle, how long is that pack job good for?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #10 September 8, 2004 Quote(ii) The reserve parachute must be packed in accordance with the foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements, by a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This may have been clarified since my last reading of it, but I thought the original wording made it more clear that it would have to be packed by a rigger rated in the jumpers country of origin. Maybe that is not so. I read that to mean that a US rigger is OK to pack the non-TSO rig while used in the US. The 'by a certificated parachute rigger' seems to leave open a US rigger. Just my opinion of the wording, I'm an engineer, not a lawyer.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 September 8, 2004 QuoteI read that to mean that a US rigger is OK to pack the non-TSO rig while used in the US. The 'by a certificated parachute rigger' seems to leave open a US rigger. Yeah, the rule is in even more ambiguity than it ever was...... Define: Forign jumper now.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #12 September 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteI read that to mean that a US rigger is OK to pack the non-TSO rig while used in the US. The 'by a certificated parachute rigger' seems to leave open a US rigger. Yeah, the rule is in even more ambiguity than it ever was...... Define: Forign jumper now..... Foreign parachutist as defined by Part 105.... "Foreign parachutist means a parachutist who is neither a U.S. citizen or a resident alien and is participating in parachute operations within the United States using parachute equipment not manufactured in the United States." Approved parachute as defined by Part 105..... "Approved parachute means a parachute manufactured under a type certificate or a Technical Standard Order (C–23 series), or a personnel-carrying U.S. military parachute (other than a high altitude, high speed, or ejection type) identified by a Navy Air Facility, an Army Air Field, and Air Force-Navy drawing number, an Army Air Field order number, or any other military designation or specification number." Now lets flop pack your main. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
696GrocuttT 0 #13 September 8, 2004 Quotethe Next is not TSO'ed, not legal in USA I was under the impression that it was TSO'ed and JTSO'ed. I own one and will check tonight. But I'm sure I remember seeing something about it being TSO'ed on the label on the reserve risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ps5601 0 #14 September 8, 2004 Don't know about other countries, but in the UK we run a 6 month cycle. If anyone's gear is packed by someone who is not a BPA reserve packer (or just doesn't fill in the BPA reserve packing form) then they are on a 120 cycle. So, if I mal with my PdF rig and reserve in the US, it can be packed by a US rigger, but on return to the UK I have only a 120 day cycle rather than a 6 month cycle. As the BPA are happy with it then it must comply to the FAA thing about "under the rules of the foreign parachuting body" or whatever the line is. Blue skies Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #15 September 8, 2004 QuoteQuotethe Next is not TSO'ed, not legal in USA I was under the impression that it was TSO'ed and JTSO'ed. I own one and will check tonight. But I'm sure I remember seeing something about it being TSO'ed on the label on the reserve risers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to the NEXT packing manual, it is manufactured under JAA JTSO C23d. Now I am not bright enough to understand the practical difference between FAA TSO and JAA JTSO, so will someone please enlighten me? Besides, if this legal issue really bothers you, you could just earn a CSPA Rigger A rating so you could legally repack any piece of parachute equipment that was legal in its country of origin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #16 September 8, 2004 QuoteDon't know about other countries, but in the UK we run a 6 month cycle. If anyone's gear is packed by someone who is not a BPA reserve packer (or just doesn't fill in the BPA reserve packing form) then they are on a 120 cycle. Not necessarily...The pack job is valid for as long as the country of origin's, up to 180 days...there are many countries out there on 180 days or more! BPA Ops Manual Section 6: Equipment, Para 8 Parachute Packing, Sub-Para 8.5: QuoteReserve parachutes that have been packed in a foreign country, in a manner acceptable to the parachuting organisation of that country, may be jumped at a BPA Club for up to 180 days from the date of that packing. This is provided that the parachuting organisation of that foreign country allows 180 days validity for a reserve repack; otherwise the foreign country’s lesser time will apply.--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #17 September 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuotethe Next is not TSO'ed, not legal in USA I was under the impression that it was TSO'ed and JTSO'ed. I own one and will check tonight. But I'm sure I remember seeing something about it being TSO'ed on the label on the reserve risers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to the NEXT packing manual, it is manufactured under JAA JTSO C23d. Now I am not bright enough to understand the practical difference between FAA TSO and JAA JTSO, so will someone please enlighten me? Besides, if this legal issue really bothers you, you could just earn a CSPA Rigger A rating so you could legally repack any piece of parachute equipment that was legal in its country of origin. Rob, They both test to AS8015-B but I don't know if the FAA recognizes a JAA TSO or if JAA recognizes a FAA TSO. Sparky [url "http://www.france-voltige.org/Docs/JTSO_c23d.pdf"]JTSO C23d[url]My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merkur 1 #18 September 8, 2004 Here is the link to the next manual from Paratec's website:http://p4961.typo3server.info/fileadmin/user/pdfs/Next_Manual_intl..pdf. I have contacted both paratec and paratec USA about the service bulletin and hope to have more information about who can work on the rig and how to react if you find this kind of pin. From what I remember when I last talked to them in Germany the NEXT is TSO'ed but as they just mention the JTSO in the manual I included this question in my mail to them. Hopefully I can post some more details here tomorrow.vSCR No.94 Don't dream your life - live your dream! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #19 September 8, 2004 The Europeans were involved in writting c23e with the idea that the JAA would adopt the same standard as the FAA and there would be cross recognition. At this time I don't think there is. But I'll ask at PIA this weekend.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #20 September 8, 2004 It's also worth pointing out that PAra-gear features the Next in their catalog, and no where on the ad does it say that it's not approved for US operations. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Merkur 1 #21 September 8, 2004 Furthermore they also feature the canopies of paratec and on this page they definitely say that they are TSOed. So I wonder why the rig should not be. UPDATE: Just received this from Paratec U.S.A.: Yes the Next harness/container and Speed 2000 reserve are TSO'd for the US as of April 24, 2003.vSCR No.94 Don't dream your life - live your dream! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pdj6p 0 #22 September 9, 2004 They were demoing the next container at lost prarie, so if they arent tso'd then there were a bunch of u.s. jumpers jumping illeagaly. Death is so permanant, and I'm just not ready for that kind of committment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #23 September 9, 2004 Quote They were demoing the next container at lost prarie, so if they arent tso'd then there were a bunch of u.s. jumpers jumping illeagaly. by reading the above post, you can see that the mentionned skydivers were not jumping illegally, as apparently mjosparky made a false statement when he wrote that Next was not TSO'd...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #24 September 9, 2004 QuoteQuote They were demoing the next container at lost prarie, so if they arent tso'd then there were a bunch of u.s. jumpers jumping illeagaly. by reading the above post, you can see that the mentionned skydivers were not jumping illegally, as apparently mjosparky made a false statement when he wrote that Next was not TSO'd... I did not mean to make a "false statement", I was using an old list. Here is the current list of TSO c23D holders. Paratec is listed. Sparky TSO-C23D PERSONNEL PARACHUTE ASSEMBLIES Aerodyne Research Corporation, 5613 Interbay Boulevard Tampa FL 33611 United States Aerodyne Systems Aerospace Ltd., 29 Duiker Road Canelands Natal South Africa Bomber Manufacturing, Inc., 24390 Aviation Ave. Davis CA 95616 United States Butler Parachute Systems, Inc., 1820 Loudon Ave NW PO Box 6098 Roanoke VA 24017-0098 United States Chute Shop C.C., P.O. Box 181016 Dalbridge, Durban 4015 South Africa Fliteline Systems, Inc., 570 Central Ave, Suite 1-1 Lake Elsinore, 1 CA 92530-274 United States Free Flight Enterprises, 20590 Cereal Street, Suite 300 Lake Elsinore CA 92530 United States Free Flight Systems, 3700 Interstate 35 Waco TX 76706 United States Kidde Aerospace, 4200 Airport Drive, N.W. Wilson NC 27896-9643 United States Parachute Industries of Southern Africa (PTY) Ltd., PO Box 1616 Verulam 4340 South Africa Parachute Laboratories Inc. dba Jump Shack, 1665 N. Lexington Ave #106 Deland FL 3724-2187 United States Parachutes de France S.A., 2, rue Denis Papin Jouy le Moutier Cergy-Pontoise Cedex 95031 France PARAFUN SARL, Le Mas de Pouverel Le Luc 83340 France Paratec GmbH, Weingartstrasse 12 Wallerfangen 66798 Germany Performance Designs, Inc., 1300 Int'l Speedway Blvd. Deland FL 32724 United States Performance Variable e.K., Flugplatz Duren Wallerfangen 66798 Germany Precision Aerodynamics-, U.S. Highway 127 N. Dunlap TN 37327 United States Precision Aerodynamics Inc, Highway 127 North Dunlap TN 37327 United States Rigging Innovations, Inc., 4900 N. Tumbleweed Road, Bldg. 1 Eloy AZ 85231 United States Safety Equipment International (SEI), 537 Sweeten Creek Industrial Park Asheville NC 28803 United States SPEKON Sachische Spezialkonfetion, Nordstrasse 40 Seifhennersdorf D-02782 Germany STUNTS Adventure Equip., Inc., 804 Estates Drive, Suite 306 Aptos CA 95001-0407 United States Sun Path Products, Inc., 4439 Skydive Lane Zephyrhills FL 33540 United States Sunrise Rigging International, Inc., 6520 Fort King Road Zephyrhills FL 33540 United StatesMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #25 September 9, 2004 Thomas Sports Equipment???? According to their website, they have TSOd...--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
