Free stowing tail pocket (Slider Off)

[DaveO 0]

Was wondering how many people still use the primary stow before they S-fold the supension lines in the tail pocket for slider off jumps. I have been free stowing my lines for over the past 200 jumps with no ill effects.
How about some opinions. Some manufactures say to make the primary stow, some say not.?

C-Ya

"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion"

[lifewithoutanet 0]

I do a single wrap w/ the primary stow on every jump.
-C.

[nicknitro71 0]

Medium size tube stow on all my jumps.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[DexterBase 0]

I do two wraps of a medium rubberband on a 3" stow always unless under 200 feet.

That stow is coming off when you hit linestretch. There's really not that much force required to pop that stow. Try stowing and then pulling it out. I'd be more worried that the stow isn't tight enough rather than be concerned with it slowing down the opening.

The primary stow is very important and is the best way to ensure your lines do not spread out and allow the bottom skin to inflate before you're completely at linestretch. Use it! Proper deployment sequence is good.

I did about 100 jumps before I started using a primary stow, but I was counseled by a very knowledgeable jumper who explained why I should use that stow.

I have done static line jumps well under 200 feet with two wraps of a medium rubber band. No problems.

I recommend doing a go-n-throw from a conservative height to see for yourself.

[outrager 6]

Yo !

I've done it both ways, and cannot see any difference in actual openings. Primary stow looks like a good idea and i use it when forced to do a low jump

Slider-down jumps suck ass.

bsbd!

Yuri.

[Mikki_ZH 0]

Quote

I do two wraps of a medium rubberband on a 3" stow always unless under 200 feet.

Why not under 200 feet? Do you think that it will delay the opening? And if yes, how many feet would you guess will you lose?
Al my sub 200 feet jumps where static line and like you I also do a primary stow. I think this will not affect the time of the opening at all but will help to prevent that the lines fall out of the tailpocket before reaching line stretch.

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[Faber 0]

I always use primary stow for all my jumps no matter the altitude.. i do a single wrap always..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Zoter 0]

Do you use a primary stow when slider up (with direct control) on terminal jumps?
I have heard conflicting views ....
I'd be interested to hear your current view........
(not directed at you Faber.......I know those lil' square things scare ya..... )

[DaveO 0]

Quote

Do you use a primary stow when slider up (with direct control) on terminal jumps?

Yes, I always use both direct and indirect slider control on all my whole 14 terminal jumps.

"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion"

[DaveO 0]

Thanks for the replys, I'm always looking to learn or to compare techniques.

I thought a little tech stuff is good for this forum every once in a while.

"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion"

[freeflysoul 0]

I always do a single wrap of tube stow for all my jumps, no problems also under 40 meters...

3,2,1,C-YA!!!
V.
BASE #1075 / BMI #I-002 / PFI #042 / EGI #104

[Faber 0]

Quote

not directed at you Faber.......I know those lil' square things scare ya.....

he he i were about to reply as i saw the above

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

The purpose of the primary stow is not to keep the slider up.

The primary stow is used to stage the deployment of the parachute. Ideally, the canopy should move to line stretch before it begins to expand. The primary stow is intended to keep the canopy together while it moves to line stretch, inhibiting expansion until after line stretch is achieved.

If the canopy begins to expand prior to reaching line stretch, there are several potential negative consequences:

1) Slack lines are thrown back and forth as the fabric moves outward. The lines are still in loops as this happens. This can increase the chances of a tension knot.

2) Slack lines can be pulled out of the tail pocket toward the canopy. As the line attachments move outward, they draw line from the tail pocket toward themselves. This line has to come from somewhere, and it is pulled (it is unrestrained without the primary stow)from the mouth of the tail pocket simultaneously with the normal line deployment (the lines feeding out of the tail pocket, running to the risers). Two different parts of the same lines are now being yanked out of the same (relatively small) opening at high speeds. This, too, increases the chances for a tension knot.

3) If the canopy somehow reaches relatively full expansion prior to reaching line stretch, it can decelerate before the jumper hits the end of the lines. This stops the jumper more suddenly (but not in less consumed altitude, actually), greatly increasing the opening shock that the jumper perceives. In the most extreme case, this can injure the jumper and/or damage the canopy. Picture falling at terminal and suddenly having a fully inflated canopy for the most extreme case, but be aware that I have seen jumpers knocked unconscious by this kind of out of sequence inflation on delays as short as 2 seconds.




The primary stow stages the deployment to slow the jumper throughout the process (instead of all at once), and reduces the chance of a tension knot resulting from slack lines being thrown around, or pulled multiple directions, as the canopy moves to line stretch.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

I do a single wrap at pretty much any altitude.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[DexterBase 0]

With what size rubber band? I have used (many times) a single wrap with a small rubber band but prefer a double wrap with a medium band.

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

With what size rubber band?

Single wrap with the medium sized rubber band.

My reasoning goes like this:

The stow band is there to prevent the canopy fabric from moving sideways. If it gets pulled outward, and flexes a little, it's not really a big deal. But if it is already tight, and it gets pulled outward and breaks, then you lose the benefits of having it in place. I'd rather see if flex a little and allow the fabric to travel outward a centimeter or so than to see it break and lose the line control entirely.

No one says I'm right, though--this is just my current opinion and reasoning. My thoughts change over time just like everyone elses.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicknitro71 0]

Well said Tom.

I just would like to add something.

IMHO, another good reason to always use the primary stow is to retard tail inflation. I am of the idea that the more, well to some extent, the tail is retarded (pun intended ) the better the opening is.

The primary stow keeps the tail centered and trapped until the lines are free. By then the nose is ahead in the inflation process.

I also pack by trapping the tail and upper center cell as much as I can. So instead of wrapping the center cell around the pack job I just roll it around itself. Then I fold the ends of the stabilizers 90 degrees up and finally completely trap the tail with the "big" three folds.

I use it for both slider up and down and so far so good.

I started using this method for packing reserves too.

As for the rubber band...I got a Prodigy 175 (older school CRW stuff). The "thing" has a tail pocket and a primary stow, of course it's free-bagged.

Well, ever since I started to use a medium size tube stows the openings have been more on-heading. I switched back to a medium tan rubber band and I saw a degeneration in the heading department with both one or two wraps!

So now I use it on all by BASE canopies as well. Again thus far thus good.

The above could be all placebo

Memento Audere Semper

903

[DexterBase 0]

Does it look like this?

[nicknitro71 0]

As far as I can tell, yes

Logically it makes sense to me and again so good so far!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[PeteS 0]

I use a single wrap on slow speed and a single or double for high speed depending on how I feel about the tension of the stow at the time, "this feels about right for this jump".Also I have been using the above packing method for a couple years now and like the results, slider up or down. High speed or low speed this appears to give consistant deployments and is pretty fast to pack.

[Faber 0]

Quote

Does it look like this?

THAT looks gay to me,who pack like that?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Treejumps 0]

I do a double wrap for all jumps. Hasn't killed me yet.

[hookitt 0]

Quote

THAT looks gay to me,who pack like that?

I do.

Exactly like that

I double stow about a 3-inch bite of line into a standard rubber band for all delays. When using a slider and a long delay, it's good to make sure the rubber band is as close to the slider grommets (which of course will be right up against the slider stops) so the slider isn't allowed even a tiny bit down the lines before line stretch.

Keeping the bottom of the canopy together till line stretch is a very good Idea. Staged openings = less chaos. Tension knots suck so do every thing you can to avoid them You may not feel a difference on slider down short delays but it can be seen on video and frame grabs.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[nicrussell 0]

I pack like that too, well close. the method is the same but the outcome is slightly different, but I really try to make it neat. cant compete with hookitt and dexterBASE.

[Faber 0]

did you think of laying the fabric same way each time will wear your canopy at thouse spots,also clamps makes some ugly scars to the canopy.. Not to speak about the way you need to huck the canopy to get the air out..
Just needed to pick on you packing natzies

I pack like shit expect the worst each time and gets happy suprised more times than you guys gets dissapointed

Hope you guys are doing great..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber