cornishe 0 #1 April 22, 2005 Why was Jaap in zero pain after his famous burbleBASE? Shouldn't his neck and back be fucked for a while?? I would really like to hear from some experienced jumpers. 3 seconds is enough for me. after that its mesh time.Abbie Mashaal Skydive Idaho Snake River Skydiving TandemBASE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #2 April 22, 2005 I was wondering if maybe he didn't get full inflation. In which case, he survived by the very thinnest of margins, and with incredible luck missed both the damage of a hard slider down opening and the damage of a hard impact, sneaking into the 10th of a second between them.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #3 April 22, 2005 Naw... you can do a 5 sec. No slider and live with no permanent damage He is young and half way flexible. I did a 4.8 or .9 on video. I was a little sore for a couple days but it was not as bad as I thought. I was also Braced for it & had a decent Body Position. also a few years younger. canopy was not high on porosity and was not Vented. Also: I immediately looked up for broken lines or Ripped fabric / None to be found. The canopy was a modified, Crus-lite, 220, Dacron lines / Not a reinforced BASE canopy. Which will just show you how Tuff a 7 cell can be. You will most likely be dead before you can Blow up a BASE canopy on opening Shock. Most seriously . . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cesslon 0 #4 April 22, 2005 QuoteWhy was Jaap in zero pain after his famous burbleBASE? Shouldn't his neck and back be fucked for a while?? I would really like to hear from some experienced jumpers. 3 seconds is enough for me. after that its mesh time. what about hips, does a bad hard opening like you had expected, smash ya hips up or what ? reason I can't skydive is it smashed me hips up, like my hips were fine, then after jumps they were fucked. then after a few zillions scan's , blood tests, weeks spent in bed, months not being able to work etc etc I was told nothing can be found to be causing the issue, its just some inflimation with no cause, except opening shock and some super sensitive hips lol, so surely a bad ass opening shock would hurt ya hips ? or are my hips just that farked lol ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
julesUK 0 #5 April 22, 2005 Even with these short delays the effect is different for different jumpers. On two occasions I have counted as Gus (6'4" tall and about 25kg) has exited before me, got to 4 and a bit and started whincing (ok, I'll be honest, smiling) in anticipation before it opens and he's met me in the landing area walking normally and wondering what the fuss is about. Jules (fat; anything more than 3 hurts) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #6 April 22, 2005 Quotewondering what the fuss is about. maybe the overall wear and tear on the canopy?Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #7 April 22, 2005 At all speeds your body position will greatly effect the impact of deployment on your body, but probably more so the longer the delay. I certainly wouldn't do 3+ secs slider down on a jump unless I was completely rock solid in freefall. Which is rare . In Dead Jaap's case though I'd go with Tom's explanation. It sounds like the healthy dose of black death factor was balanced out but a fair bit of good luck. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treejumps 0 #8 April 22, 2005 Sometimes its just random luck. I remember the old Boenish videos wathcing guys go 5+ seconds from towers slider down, and often the openings looked fine. If you get a really good nose first inflation opening, they still seem to be reasonable openings. Luck, Luck, Luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccordia 73 #9 April 22, 2005 Couldn't the difference be in the actual bracing for a hard opening? When you expect a hard opening you tention your neck-muscles to prevent the swinging of your head forward, thus giving your tensioned muscles a hard blow. If your neck was relaxed it would probably tear fewer muscle-fibers with such a hard opening. I was thinking about car crashes, where drunks who hit stuff are usualy pretty okay in frontal crashes, while the 'sober' people they crashed into (who braced for impact) walk away with whip-lash injuries. Maybe because Jaap wasn't bracing for an opening anymore and kept his neck/muscles relaxed... Just a theory....but something I'd been wondering about..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites klapaucius 0 #10 April 22, 2005 There is a neat scientific paper dicussing opening loads (in skydiving, though) http://www.pcprg.com/s01out.htm http://www.pcprg.com/pia01f2.gif http://www.pcprg.com/should03.gif http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=134 The geometry of bending of the body is quite similar to that of head-on car collision. Generally, expect 10g load on the head when colliding at 10mph and 40g load at 30mph. 10g gives stiff neck, 40g may send to hospital. For this kind of incidents, it is important to be flexible, something like being able to bring chin to sternum with shoulders back and touch your knees with your nose, with legs completely straight. Ligaments and muscle will not stretch as much under load and there is a lesser chance of injury/ Many if not most race car drivers go through a good warmup/stretch routine before a race. There is a saying among racers that they are divided into those who crashed and those who will....so they get ready. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KevinMcGuire 0 #11 April 22, 2005 QuoteWhy was Jaap in zero pain after his famous burbleBASE? Shouldn't his neck and back be fucked for a while?? I would really like to hear from some experienced jumpers. 3 seconds is enough for me. after that its mesh time. I once had the exact same thing happen to me that happened to Jaap. Folded the PC wrong and almost paid dearly for it. Fourtunaty I was at the green monster in norcal and not at the potato. I launched, took a 2, pitched and towed it for 5 more before I got a canopy. While the opening was VERY positive, I did not suffer any injurys as a result of the opening. Landing was a different story Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #12 April 24, 2005 harness is a thing to considder aswell. Using my Vertex1(which wasnt sewn for me,which means 2.nd hand) i get smacked at all jumps above 2,5 sec delay(vented fox 265) Jumping my Gargoyle containing a Flik 266(also vented)i can take 3,5 sec delaywhith out feeling any pain afterwards.this harness however were sewn for me.... I do belive that a prober fitting harness will take more of the schok than a "loose" harness... Also considder camgear aswell,having weight on your head will more easily give wiplash. That and Tom and Ray´s explanation is my oppinion. You can do some solid delays whith out getting hurt even whith vents... but also i think that Jaap might didnt have a fully inflated canopy,but givving impact ½ to the canopy and ½ to the wather has saved him from getting hurt on this "stunt" Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RayLosli 11 #13 April 24, 2005 Faber: ... "I do belive that a prober fitting harness will take more of the schok than a "loose" harness... Also considder camgear aswell,having weight on your head will more easily give wiplash". ............ You can get by physically with doing some healthy No-Slider delays with out getting to banged up on opening. When your Pushing it. A lot of healthy big 3 seconds or more. there fun to do once in awhile. The Physical damage for the body for the most part is not in the weekend of fun BASE jumping (short term). The damage to the body is the Long Run. You do - Several hundred - No-Slider jumps mixed with those Big-Bang Healthy delays and you Could pay the price. (long term) It's those openings, the ones that you see some stars / little Tracers, that do the long term damage. It is also pretty well documented in Long term Camera work in Skydiving. My neck and back have some Glitches/Spots that just plan hurt sometimes. I also hear others who have jumped for years, whine about pains in neck and back. . That is why if you ever see me jumping for example in Twin Falls. I mostly do Slider-up now. I can not do 15-20 - No-Slider - Fun jumps in a few days time anymore. It's my Neck and Back. I will be sucking on a bottle of. IBUPROFEN, for a couple days after. . I think that is what they call, "Starting to get Decrepit in BASE Jumping."..... . . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #14 April 25, 2005 yeah i guess your right,sadly im gonna prove you wrong inabout 200jumps from now he he my problem is sliders.. ive got a sliderfobi Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 0
mccordia 73 #9 April 22, 2005 Couldn't the difference be in the actual bracing for a hard opening? When you expect a hard opening you tention your neck-muscles to prevent the swinging of your head forward, thus giving your tensioned muscles a hard blow. If your neck was relaxed it would probably tear fewer muscle-fibers with such a hard opening. I was thinking about car crashes, where drunks who hit stuff are usualy pretty okay in frontal crashes, while the 'sober' people they crashed into (who braced for impact) walk away with whip-lash injuries. Maybe because Jaap wasn't bracing for an opening anymore and kept his neck/muscles relaxed... Just a theory....but something I'd been wondering about..JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klapaucius 0 #10 April 22, 2005 There is a neat scientific paper dicussing opening loads (in skydiving, though) http://www.pcprg.com/s01out.htm http://www.pcprg.com/pia01f2.gif http://www.pcprg.com/should03.gif http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=134 The geometry of bending of the body is quite similar to that of head-on car collision. Generally, expect 10g load on the head when colliding at 10mph and 40g load at 30mph. 10g gives stiff neck, 40g may send to hospital. For this kind of incidents, it is important to be flexible, something like being able to bring chin to sternum with shoulders back and touch your knees with your nose, with legs completely straight. Ligaments and muscle will not stretch as much under load and there is a lesser chance of injury/ Many if not most race car drivers go through a good warmup/stretch routine before a race. There is a saying among racers that they are divided into those who crashed and those who will....so they get ready. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #11 April 22, 2005 QuoteWhy was Jaap in zero pain after his famous burbleBASE? Shouldn't his neck and back be fucked for a while?? I would really like to hear from some experienced jumpers. 3 seconds is enough for me. after that its mesh time. I once had the exact same thing happen to me that happened to Jaap. Folded the PC wrong and almost paid dearly for it. Fourtunaty I was at the green monster in norcal and not at the potato. I launched, took a 2, pitched and towed it for 5 more before I got a canopy. While the opening was VERY positive, I did not suffer any injurys as a result of the opening. Landing was a different story Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #12 April 24, 2005 harness is a thing to considder aswell. Using my Vertex1(which wasnt sewn for me,which means 2.nd hand) i get smacked at all jumps above 2,5 sec delay(vented fox 265) Jumping my Gargoyle containing a Flik 266(also vented)i can take 3,5 sec delaywhith out feeling any pain afterwards.this harness however were sewn for me.... I do belive that a prober fitting harness will take more of the schok than a "loose" harness... Also considder camgear aswell,having weight on your head will more easily give wiplash. That and Tom and Ray´s explanation is my oppinion. You can do some solid delays whith out getting hurt even whith vents... but also i think that Jaap might didnt have a fully inflated canopy,but givving impact ½ to the canopy and ½ to the wather has saved him from getting hurt on this "stunt" Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RayLosli 11 #13 April 24, 2005 Faber: ... "I do belive that a prober fitting harness will take more of the schok than a "loose" harness... Also considder camgear aswell,having weight on your head will more easily give wiplash". ............ You can get by physically with doing some healthy No-Slider delays with out getting to banged up on opening. When your Pushing it. A lot of healthy big 3 seconds or more. there fun to do once in awhile. The Physical damage for the body for the most part is not in the weekend of fun BASE jumping (short term). The damage to the body is the Long Run. You do - Several hundred - No-Slider jumps mixed with those Big-Bang Healthy delays and you Could pay the price. (long term) It's those openings, the ones that you see some stars / little Tracers, that do the long term damage. It is also pretty well documented in Long term Camera work in Skydiving. My neck and back have some Glitches/Spots that just plan hurt sometimes. I also hear others who have jumped for years, whine about pains in neck and back. . That is why if you ever see me jumping for example in Twin Falls. I mostly do Slider-up now. I can not do 15-20 - No-Slider - Fun jumps in a few days time anymore. It's my Neck and Back. I will be sucking on a bottle of. IBUPROFEN, for a couple days after. . I think that is what they call, "Starting to get Decrepit in BASE Jumping."..... . . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #14 April 25, 2005 yeah i guess your right,sadly im gonna prove you wrong inabout 200jumps from now he he my problem is sliders.. ive got a sliderfobi Stay safe Stefan Faber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
