Cliff strike video

[jonathan_k 0]

Here's the video of my cliff strike from a previous discussion: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1390780;#1390780

It was shown at the ABA video night last weekend so i've posted it on skydivingmovies.com for general consumption. Enjoy!

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=2138

[JaapSuter 0]

Couldn't find an answer to this one in the original discussion, so I'll ask it here.

You seem to go for toggles instead of risers. Was this a deliberate decision or a instictive reaction in the rush of the moment?

Consider the hypothetical situation where you had known in advance you would have had a 180. Would you have gone for risers, fly backwards and then turn it around, or would you still push yourself off the cliff to try and keep the canopy inflated as much as possible?

Great work on the coming out of it alive! Especially the part where your feet are pointing to the sky looks "interesting".

Thanks for sharing!

Jaap Suter

[jonathan_k 0]

Yeah, i went for toggles. That's what i was taught and felt comfortable with. I also think this has to do with the learning environment in Oz (others might not agree), where your first x number of jumps are sub-200ft PCA's, i had developed a riser response while skydiving but forgot about that on my first jumps as you've gotta be on toggles pretty quickly to land.

Saying that, i will definitely go for risers in the future. You can see in the video that i had a fair bit of horizontal distance to use, which i ate up by not responding appropriately (turning left first). I think if i left the brakes stowed and went for risers i would have had enough horizontal distance for the second response.

[Dalai 0]

I've jumped this canopy (it’s a Flik, well it was!!) and found it accelerated very quickly after opening. I put this down to the removal of the 5th control line, as is common in Australia, but without the necessary brake adjustment. This would have effected the response time required, basically putting the jumper into the cliff in less time. I’ve heard jumpers argue that sometimes forward speed in these situations is a good thing… ie: transferring forward speed into a turn, therefore creating a quicker turn etc.
Any ideas??

[JaapSuter 0]

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You can see in the video that i had a fair bit of horizontal distance to use...

That was my initial thought. It looked like you had room to get the canopy close to a stall and turn it around in place at least 90 degrees on risers.

I hesitated to express that thought, because the sole fact that you came out of this unharmed makes you ten times the basejumper that I will ever be.

Again, nice work! It's great to see footage like this. It puts the scare back into me, yet knowing that nobody got hurt is nice.

Cheers,

Jaap

[JaapSuter 0]

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but without the necessary brake adjustment. This would have affected the response time required, basically putting the jumper into the cliff in less time.

I'm not entirely sure I'm following. Was this a canopy with one factory brake-setting, two factory brake-settings of which the deeper one was used, or a customized brake-setting tailored to the jumper and brake-line length (with fifth control line mod)?

It's hard to tell how much forward surge (swing) you had on opening, because you pop the toggles, which always gives you a little more swing.

I think...

Jaap

[Tyrion 0]

I was cringing watching that on Friday night! So glad you made it out ok!

[Faber 0]

Is it me?
It looks like your turning to your left in freefall perhaps tip a shoulder while the chute is opening,causing your offheadding.
I would deafently recomend using rearrissers to avoid objectstrikes in that altitude,as you saw your toogles dint helped you much..

I wont blame you for not doing it as you already told you were taught to go for toogles,but you atleast had 1 oppertunety to get away from the walll whith rearrisers,even as things happens FAST as F*ck..

glad you made it
Oh UK weather sucks

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Zoter 0]

Glad you are still alive......that looked horrible

Is there anything else you can do after a strike to improve the odds a bit (Control Input).....or simply wait to slide onto a ledge?


Bit too wet for you today ehh Faber ???

[eb66to77 0]

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Glad you are still alive......that looked horrible

Is there anything else you can do after a strike to improve the odds a bit (Control Input).....or simply wait to slide onto a ledge?


Bit too wet for you today ehh Faber ???

After a strike there isn't much you can do. I tried taking a large portion of the impact with my legs as evident by the huge disfiguring scar real close to where it broke.

Dude real glad to hear you are still kickin'. Good luck on your recovery.

[GaryP 0]

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...got on toggles straight away to turn right, couldn't feel my canopy turning after a couple of seconds and by that time had been rag-dolled around to the left and that looked like the better option, so i tried to turn left but was pretty much on the cliff and ended up flaring straight at it.....

While I have to agree that the risers are the best choice on this wall, it seems your toggle input was pretty non-responsive. When the Line-Mod is being used you'll get less response from your typical arm's length "stroke" than you would get if the lines were routed in the riser keepers as for slider-up jumping. Always keep this in mind and try to develop a steering technique for slider-down jumps that pushes deep and forward of your hips rather than the tendency to pull down and behind your hips as is the habit when skydiving. Also, having the toggles tied on a few inches higher than normal may help you get more tail down when you bottom out on the control stroke and it will help negate some of the effect that the Line-Mod has on the input.

Also, there's not many walls that will allow you to have a 180 & make an input one way, then change input and try another direction, even this highly overhung one -but I guess I'm not telling you anything you don't know now eh??

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Yeah, i went for toggles. That's what i was taught and felt comfortable with. I also think this has to do with the learning environment in Oz (others might not agree), where your first x number of jumps are sub-200ft PCA's, i had developed a riser response while skydiving but forgot about that on my first jumps as you've gotta be on toggles pretty quickly to land.

Don't take all advice as Gospel. Question evrything you are taught and understand the reasons for evrything you chose to do. Don't just go for the toggles 'cause someone told you to. Think WHY you are making particular choices (eg. toggles, risers, two-way, longer delay). Make your choices after assessing everything. Each site is different and needs to be assessed all the way to the ground. Even the same site can have different requisites and possible outcomes on different days or situations (weather, multiple jumpers, light, etc). Ultimately, we have to think it thru for ourselves.

Glad ur ok! Take care mate!




g.
BASE985

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[nicknitro71 0]

Lucky SOAB! Actually it's beyond luck!

It looks slider removed. What size PC?

Memento Audere Semper

903

[460 0]

In case of imminent strike, use the risers. Otherwise use the toggles. At least you didn't burn up tons of altitude flying on risers. Dwain W. once commented about doing super low freefalls. He wouldn't unstow his toggles for landing since he would get an opening surge that could cause a problem. It is possible to land on rear risers even with toggles stowed - prohibited by the type of landing area of course. I believe he would grab the brake line immediately above the keeper ring and fly on this.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[Zoter 0]

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In case of imminent strike, use the risers. Otherwise use the toggles

Why...?
Or rather.... whats the advantage of this methodology over just using risers to turn yourself away from a 'non' imminent strike?
I'm not being argumentative......I just dont know

[TomAiello 25]

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In case of imminent strike, use the risers. Otherwise use the toggles

Why...?
Or rather.... whats the advantage of this methodology over just using risers to turn yourself away from a 'non' imminent strike?

To simplify:

Toggle turns use more forward space. Riser turns use more altitude.

When making avoidance decisions, be aware of what your biggest danger is. If it's hitting the object, generally, you'll want to sacrifice altitude to avoid object strike (hence, use the risers). If it's not, then the next danger coming up is the canopy flight to landing, so you'll want to use toggles to conserve altitude.

This is pretty much the same reasoning that tells us to use risers to avoid strike _only until no longer facing the object_, and then switch to toggles. There's no need to turn the full 180 on risers (and you'll spend way too much altitude if you do so). You just want to use the risers to avoid the strike, then once strike is no longer an immediate danger, move to toggles.

That wasn't very clear, was it? Sorry. I'll try to clean it up and explain better if you want.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[leroydb 0]

dont say its luck... I got chewed out on another post for saying "lucky shite"

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[TomAiello 25]

[replyAfter a strike there isn't much you can do. I tried taking a large portion of the impact with my legs as evident by the huge disfiguring scar real close to where it broke.

[Zoter 0]

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That wasn't very clear, was it? Sorry. I'll try to clean it up and explain better if you want.

No no ...thats clear enough , thanks
Rather than change grips to 'go to toggles' on a 180 where the object has been avoided through rear riser input.........is it not better to just ease off the amount of rear riser input and still continue the turn until the desired heading is reached....
Or is the altitude loss between riser/toggle turn that different?

[TomAiello 25]

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Rather than change grips to 'go to toggles' on a 180 where the object has been avoided through rear riser input.........is it not better to just ease off the amount of rear riser input and still continue the turn until the desired heading is reached....
Or is the altitude loss between riser/toggle turn that different?

In my opinion, it's really that different.

If I have clear air in front of me, I'll let the risers up and pop the toggles.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[tommyh 0]

This may be a little off subject here, but how in the hell did you get off that ledge? I'm glad everything turned out alright.

[JaapSuter 0]

From an older thread:

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Yeah i climbed down about 50 feet then there was another 50 feet of unclimbable rock down to a ledge that was accessible from the landing area. I sat there for 3 hours while the guy i was jumping with organised some ropes and stuff to get down with (thanks ben!). I was stuck on the face for 4 1/2 hours all up. It ended up being quite fun, after a failed attempt to throw up a rock with some fishing line tied to it, i had to make a rope out of my clothes which came up short, so i made the rest with some bark from a small shrub on the ledge i was on. How not to BASE jump macguyver style...

Cheers,

Jaap

[pBASEtobe 0]

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...how in the hell did you get off that ledge?

Some paragliding pilots fly with a roll of dental floss in their harness. That way if they ever land in a tree they can lower the dental floss down to the ground, have someone tie a rope to the end and then they can pull up the rope. Dental floss is light and pretty strong and it is easy to carry 50 yards of it in your pocket.

Any BASE jumpers carry this with them?

[leroydb 0]

this is an outstanding idea. I will now include this in my waist bag (fanny pack) of tools.

So far, In mine, I include
extra tailgates, diff sized rubber bands, pullup cords, knife, wind meter, closing loops, a small bunch of break cord. 2 links with 2 ft of cord already tied, a small flashlight, gloves unless worn, lighter, DV cable, and a radio if needed for the jump.

believe it or not, this is a "normal" sized waist bag.

What else might I include? I already take a basic load of First Aid equipment for "small" injuries.

Maybe Tom can break this off into a different thread?

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[460 0]

Excellent point Tom.

Some of the early jumper commented that whenever their shoes stuck to the wall more than just a moment, the ankles and legs would start breaking and shattering. Friction seems to be an interesting culprit, but I'm just hypothesizing.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[LouYoung 0]

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extra tailgates, diff sized rubber bands, pullup cords, knife, wind meter, closing loops, a small bunch of break cord. 2 links with 2 ft of cord already tied, a small flashlight, gloves unless worn, lighter, DV cable, and a radio if needed for the jump.

Lockpicks? Black ski mask? Crossbow?