Going stowed comfort level?

[Faber 0]

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I was taught not to go stowed with anything bigger than a 42", even now with my limited experience that still seems like good advice.

yeah i do agree whith that,even as you can use your 42 really low...
Last Feb 621 used my vented 42 on a velcrorig and a unvented canopy off PP(230ft if i rember correct) working just fine.

Funny thing is that i found myself using a vented 42 down to 250 and below that i used a vented 46.
Today i use a 46(most times if i rember)below 300ft and my new broken 48 below 200ft.(sadly didnt got a jump sub 200 since it broke)

I found that the small pcs still worked just fine in the low envioment but in a case of a hessi you really want more fabric to caught air to inflate the pc,therefore i moved up again..

As today i still rarely go stowed,and when i do its not below 400ft.(but hey its not often im above 400ft(actualt last time were in feb,were i jumped slider off off 500ft)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

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If i go handheld from around the 350ft mark i ususally take a good delay, if i go stowed i usually under delay by half a second.

I've done a number of stowed go and throws. I went through a phase a while back where I thought it was cool to be stowed at very low altitudes (plus, I was uncurrent handheld and kept getting offheadings from assymetric pitch), so I did way too many low stowed jumps.

My experience was that a stowed PC with zero airspeed is the most likely configuration for a PC hesitation. I'd estimate that I had a noticeable PC hesitation about 1 time in 20 doing "go and stow" jumps.

I guess the reason I'm mentioning this is that it's probably a better reflex to take deeper delays stowed, to minimize the chance of hesitation.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[sabre210 0]

Hey Tom

the idea of taking the longer delay whilst stowed makes perfect sense (up to a point). Of course it's a different story when you're in freefall in the pitch black and the blood is pumping.

I don't intend to under delay on these lowish stowed jumps. I just always feel i need to give myself more time for the location, extraction and pitching of the pc than i probably actually need. That's just me....paranoid.

On a specific UK cliff jump from the same height i always find myself opting to go handheld. Consequently i believe i take a solid delay and get a snappier opening with a better chance of being on-heading.

I'll try to re-learn my instinct to go in too early on the stowed jumps though. Could be fun.

[RayLosli 11]

Tom, Faber, Skreamer....

I don't understand the not stowing anything larger than a 42 inch / pilot chute ????

I am not over-exaggerating.
I have done at least 300 jumps with a stowed / 48 inch / pilot chute.

[Rauk 0]

I agree. I did quite a few with my 46" PC and it works just fine. Haven't stowed a 48", but seeing the 46" I don't htink it would be a problem.

[DexterBase 0]

I'll stow a 46 but not a 48. If you're going to use a 48" PC and go stowed, why not just use a 46?

[RayLosli 11]

I never made a 46 inch pilot.

I only make and jump, 32 - 38 - 42 - 48 -/ inch

What is the big difference between a 46 aand 48 ???

[DexterBase 0]

What advantages do you gain by stowing a 48" PC versus a 42?

Edit: I think if you take the same delay with a 48 stowed and repeat the jump with a 42 stowed, you're going to open in the same spot. (short delay)

[Possum 0]

Roughly 2 inches.

[RayLosli 11]

To tell you the truth I don't do a whole bunch of Pilot Chute swapping around when
jumping with no slider. 99 percent of the time I don't swap any pilot chutes out.

I use 48 inch on most everything. with no slider.
I always jump the larger heavier canopy's 285 sq. ft. and bigger usually.
I would say on most of the no slider jumps I do. A 42 inch pilot chute I make would work satisfactory.
Just never worry about it to much I guess
I Just pack it up and jump it.

A couple of months ago I pulled a "New Vented, ZP, 42 inch pilot chute" I sewed up a while back.
It was in a Big-Bag of pilot chutes I keep in the closet in the sewing room.
I threw it in the floor with the intention to put it on and jump it.... I Just haven't got around to it yet.
I think I kicked it out of the way when I got up out of my chair to answer the phone when You
called about a half hour ago.

[DexterBase 0]

Hehe... nice dude. I'm excited to see your project!

[Faber 0]

first off i think going less than 2 secs(what i do whith a 46 or bigger)gives no reasson to jump it stowed..

seccond,i dobelive that that much more fabric in your BOC has more chance to (dunno how to describe it so this aint the way i tenede to say it)get stuck/hard to pull out of the BOC compared an example a 42.

third,you wider your spandex by using such a big pc in it whith could result in a prmature deployment at you use an much smaller pc from same BOC

Walking some "funny" places having my pc handheld just in case i should slip off convinced me that i can be most places by my pc handheld.BUT in them windy days or were there could be many places to snag the bridel you couldnt do so.

I have on my right shouldercover placed a peice of velcro and also on my bridel. that way i can "huck" up the bridel so its not flapping on my bag/container and the only slag is from the shoulder to my hand were i have the pc.

I also agree whith the person asking why stowing a 48 instead of an 46? Personaly i only use a 48 in the sub 1 sec delay range,were i would be as happy to use my 46(in many but not all times)

Ray as i understand you build your pc´s your self,did you try making a 45-46 vented?
im sure you would find it as a great tool,not taking so much room,inflates/pulls nearly the same as a 48

Also how low do you go stowed?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[skreamer 1]

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Exit point doesn't allow it?

At this point, that's my biggest reason.

[PerFlare 0]

For me it is easy:

Slider down, if I can go handheld I will do so. If not I consider stowed.

Slider up, stowed

Super low aerials is not for me, can not see the point.

PerFlare

[jalisco 0]

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What is the big difference between a 46 aand 48 ???

looks like about 10-15% more cross-sectional area ... won't that mean a significant difference in snatch force?

[Rauk 0]

Yeah, I talked to M.T. about that not long ago, and his thoughts were that a 46" will pretty much do the same for you as a 48", considering less fabric to need inflating.

[subterminal 0]

My surprise, I guess was mostly due to not knowing the facts you just pointed out ;) Now it makes more sence, and it is still one of those memorable jumps you don't want to repeat. Could probably do with a bit more of separation... Oh.. Here I'm rambe
ling again. About time I packed slider down and went back there. At least now some snow makes the landing a tad more forgiving.

Have also noticed the not too eager inflation of many a Fox that are not ventet. Especially the z-p topskin onces subterminal...

Seasons greetings to all

CJ =)

[aidclimber 0]

about 300 feet is were i draw the line for going stowed...i haven't gone hand held for about 45 jumps untill yesterday jumping a 310 foot rock in a blizzard..made me feel alot better having the PC in my hand ...one of the most nerve racking jumps but one of the best ....5 good friends one of them making his first cliff jump in a snow storm

CYA
Sky SLC Crew

[CrazyThomas 0]

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Walking some "funny" places having my pc handheld just in case i should slip off convinced me that i can be most places by my pc handheld.BUT in them windy days or were there could be many places to snag the bridel you couldnt do so.

What about when you have to climb a narrow tower, and cannot easily or safely unstow at the top and go hand held? A's that need to be climbed on the outside, because the inside is too narrow to crawl into.

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I have on my right shouldercover placed a peice of velcro and also on my bridel. that way i can "huck" up the bridel so its not flapping on my bag/container and the only slag is from the shoulder to my hand were i have the pc.

I have heard concern over this set-up. An earlier rig of mine had a piece of velcro down on the bottom flap and the bridle, that would attach on the right corner where the BOC pouch had the opening. It was mentioned before to me, that I should NOT use that velcro piece when going hand held, and from lower heights. The reason was this.
Shrivel Flap.
The shrivel flap will peel in a head down, or stand up orientation. Velcro itself however, needs much more shear force to unhook it. So a head down/stand up position could cause a pc in tow, because of the angle at which the velcro is trying pull.

Anyone else ever hear this?


Later,
Thomas

[Faber 0]

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Walking some "funny" places having my pc handheld just in case i should slip off convinced me that i can be most places by my pc handheld.BUT in them windy days or were there could be many places to snag the bridel you couldnt do so.

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What about when you have to climb a narrow tower, and cannot easily or safely unstow at the top and go hand held? A's that need to be climbed on the outside, because the inside is too narrow to crawl into.

read the tekst again my freind

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In Reply To
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I have on my right shouldercover placed a peice of velcro and also on my bridel. that way i can "huck" up the bridel so its not flapping on my bag/container and the only slag is from the shoulder to my hand were i have the pc.

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I have heard concern over this set-up. An earlier rig of mine had a piece of velcro down on the bottom flap and the bridle, that would attach on the right corner where the BOC pouch had the opening.

different setups my velcro is at the place were you stow your bridel at your SHOULDER as you go handheld and not other places...

I used this on sub 200ft whith out any problems.
I found that the bridel clear better than if you stow it under your risers or just the flap(were i dream of a kind off a hang up.. i will post pics as i get home in abit...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Faber 0]

just to add the pics i spoke about

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[gus 1]

Yo Faber,

I think what Thomas means is that little bit of velcro you have on your shoulder won't shrivel. It may be only small but in a vertical deployment position could it be enough to cause even a slight hesi?
I've seen the same thing on other rigs btw. When going handheld on my Gargoyle I just lightly tuck the bridle under the top right flap.

On the subject of stowed comfort level: My regular A is 360 ft and I almost always go handheld, I think it takes one link out of the chain and I think you're less likely to distort your body position and induce an off-heading. The times I've jumped that same A stowed I've opened noticeably lower with the same delay. I think you just have to be aware of it.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[Nonoski 0]

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The shrivel flap will peel in a head down, or stand up orientation. Velcro itself however, needs much more shear force to unhook it. So a head down/stand up position could cause a pc in tow, because of the angle at which the velcro is trying pull.

For my hand held jumps I always use this small piece of velcro at the bottom of my right flap, to avoid the bridle to catch my rig's corner.
I think that such a small piece of velcro cannot cause the PC to hesitate, especially because when this piece of velcro is pulled, almost all the length of the bridle is out, allowing maximum traction for the PC. That's also why I think that a small piece of velcro on the shoulder (thanks Faber for the pics) is not so good because it "shortens" the bridle.

[Faber 0]

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When going handheld on my Gargoyle I just lightly tuck the bridle under the top right flap.

which i tend to think has a greater chance of a hang up even at regular stabel freefalls..

WHY? Becourse its close to your shoulder which you move arround and therefore has a greater chance to snag inside.just try to get a fella to wear a rig and ask him to do the same on his boby as he does in a shortdelay(less than 4 secs) if you place your finger were the bridel should be you will understand what i say.

Also you should be in exact degreel if the velcro should be hard to pull.even at that you could do some pull tests and then compare to how much your pc will pull at a given time(that tekst is out here somewere).

I tend to pull higher as i go stowed,so i often choose handheld so i get a better groundrush...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[TomAiello 25]

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...I should NOT use that velcro piece when going hand held, and from lower heights. The reason was this.
Shrivel Flap.
The shrivel flap will peel in a head down, or stand up orientation. Velcro itself however, needs much more shear force to unhook it. So a head down/stand up position could cause a pc in tow, because of the angle at which the velcro is trying pull.

The pull force of the very small velcro patch in a shear direction is less than the pull force of your shrivel flap in a straight direction. If you take a spring scale and measure it, that should allay your concerns.

Also, the velcro flap at the shoulder is a good idea (or some other thing that does the same job, like a tuck flap, or just tucking the bridle in). If the bridle blows back under your arm our the lower corner of the rig, you'll tow the PC. There was a (beginner) fatality from this malfunction in France (perhaps 2 years ago? check the list).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com