Tail Gate on Slider Up jumps

[georgechurchill 0]

Hi,
I was wondering how many people use tail gates on slider up jumps. What type of tail gate and if they have experienced any problems.

I'm thinking that masking tape on the control lines is a very good idea.

Thanks
George

http://georgechurchill.blogspot.com

[NathanL100 0]

I've had great success taping my control lines and inside D lines together, I won't do a slider up jump without doing it.

Base # 942
The race is long and in the end, its only with yourself.

[killen1970 0]

I made about 7 at tf using masking tape. Making only two raps at the same spot where your talegate is. You should be wrapping the same lines with the masking tape that would go in your talegate. Works great and will save your back.

[ManBird 0]

I use my tailgate to hold the slider and two wraps of masking tape on just the brake lines, just below the attachment points. Works really well so far.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[gus 1]

To you guys that are saying "it works great", what exactly do you mean? Were you having problems without some kind of slider up tail gate? Is you slider up tail gate making a positive difference to the 'quality' of your openings? Or do you just mean "it hasn't mal'd on me yet" .

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[NeilQ 0]

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I'm thinking that masking tape on the control lines is a very good idea

I'm not disagreeing, but I seem to remember that someone who was doing this at Petronas last year had a line over that cleared (was filmed by Anne) so it may not be the "answer"

Neil

[georgechurchill 0]

reply]To you guys that are saying "it works great", what exactly do you mean? Were you having problems without some kind of slider up tail gate? Is you slider up tail gate making a positive difference to the 'quality' of your openings? Or do you just mean "it hasn't mal'd on me yet" .
---------------------------------

Well, in my very limited experience.....

I witnessed a line over in Norway. With his descent rate, he was going in for sure.
The line over cleared about 20m of the ground and he got away with it. (I have video, not sure where I can upload. Line over appears to have been caused by a massively orbiting ZP PC.)

Since then I have started to use masking tape to control the lines during packing, and to try and promote nose first inflation. Both help in preventing line overs.

I hadn't met any jumpers that do this (coming from the UK, we don't get many slider up jumps).

The guy who had the line over, started using a regular tail gate, (with small mesh slider !!!!! not large)

This year in Norway, they had 4 or 5 line overs I think. All though not fail proof it seams like using a tail gate of sorts could help prevent these.

George

http://georgechurchill.blogspot.com

[TomAiello 25]

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I have video, not sure where I can upload.

You could upload it to SkyDivingMovies.com, or if you don't want to put it there, I can stick it up on my web page, if you email it to me.

Quote

Line over appears to have been caused by a massively orbiting ZP PC.

Do you know anything about the PC? Manufacturer? Vented? Was symmetry of PC and/or attachment checked afterward?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[georgechurchill 0]

E-mailed to you....

The PC was symmetrical, I think he got the PC from Vertigo.

I was surprised to find someone using a non-vented, ZP Pilot chute in Norway, especially one with no load tapes.

George

http://georgechurchill.blogspot.com

[TomAiello 25]

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I was surprised to find someone using a non-vented, ZP Pilot chute in Norway, especially one with no load tapes.

I am not a fan of the no tape PC's. I have a nice photo of one looking like a figure 8 during inflation. I've also seen some newer Vertigo PC's that have topskin load tapes, so I'm not even sure that anyone is making them without the tapes any more.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[nicknitro71 0]

I don't get it. With slider up the tail has already a reefing why in the hell you want to tape the lines or use a tailgate? CR advices against such a practice. More insights would be appreciated.

Also if you use masking tape why don't you just go with the tailgate?

Memento Audere Semper

903

[julesUK 0]

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Also if you use masking tape why don't you just go with the tailgate?

In Norway this summer I saw masking tape being used very creatively on the longer control lines of a 5 control-line canopy to keep them taut - much better than a tailgate would.

I also saw some very experienced and knowledgeable jumpers using direct and indirect slider control, a fine mesh slider and a tailgate with 4 wraps of the bungee - terminal only!

You probably don't want to use a tailgate with a large mesh slider so for subterminal slider-up delays the tape is the way to go. And WLO toggles.

Jules

[TomAiello 25]

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In Norway this summer I saw masking tape being used very creatively on the longer control lines of a 5 control-line canopy to keep them taut - much better than a tailgate would.

Can you elaborate?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[julesUK 0]

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Can you elaborate?

No, I'll get it wrong but hopefully Ron L will read this and tell us all about it. Seems to cause twists though....


Jules

[hookitt 0]

One reason it's not advised against is was very few people ever contested it or tested.

I've used Tape for a whole bunch of jumps now and I'm satisfied that it's a good method. Tape is a good alternative to a tailgate slider up or down, and is probably more predictable in a slider up scenario. I still use the tailgate slider down though. 2 Wraps of masking tape is just enough to contain the lines.

I just did 12 slider up jumps with a tailgate from the Perrine to see if there was a notable difference. As far as how the opening felt, there was none that I could tell. Delays were pretty short, 2 to 2 1/2seconds (Except when dexterbase took me a bit lower )

2 wraps of standard mini rubberbands cut in half, were used with an additional wrap around only one leg of the tailgate. The additional wrap was used to add just a tiny bit of tension on the rubber band. 2 single wraps practically fell off and 3 full wraps seemed to be too much.

Why use a tailgate or tape slider up? In theory, the same reason jumping slider down. To keep the brakelines in the back where they belong and encourage nose first inflation. Just be careful not to tighten it too much.

Every single part on a parachute moves so occasionally lines will go where you least want them.

Keep in mind though, I tend to experiment alot. I have no reason to encourage my actions.

[ManBird 0]

I doubt it's really related, but I'm just throwing this out there, with my limited number of jumps. The only off-heading/uneven inflation/opening I had all weekend was the one jump that I didn't use tape on the brake lines. It was noted from my point of view, above, and below that the tail on the right side of the canopy was up and running before the rest of the pack job. Every other opening I had, packing the exact same way (but with a tape gate) was dead on. Just thowing it out there.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[Ronald 0]

Anybody, what are the possible effects of tape on lines? I know that writing ink does effect the strenght of lines, so could glue do so as well? Hope not. Experiments usually lead to succes and to disaster...

Ronald Overdijk

[Luke 0]

Quote

Quote

Can you elaborate?

No, I'll get it wrong but hopefully Ron L will read this and tell us all about it. Seems to cause twists though....


Jules

It's not really to keep the lines taut. The main aim is to preserve the careful reefing of the tail and the central placement of the control lines and inner Cs & Ds, whilst the pack job is cocooned. I use around three wraps 3/4" masking tape and would also like to think that it constricts the lines enough to promote centre cell first opening as well, although this is total guesswork.

Using masking tape doesn't cause line twists. But I think I'll carry on flying my S3 after deployment from now on.

[ManBird 0]

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But I think I'll carry on flying my S3 after deployment from now on.

Good plan.

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Anybody, what are the possible effects of tape on lines? I know that writing ink does effect the strenght of lines, so could glue do so as well? Hope not. Experiments usually lead to succes and to disaster...

I know several people with hundreds of jumps with the "tape gate" and it doesn't seem to affect the lines at all.

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The main aim is to preserve the careful reefing of the tail and the central placement of the control lines and inner Cs & Ds, whilst the pack job is cocooned.

I'd say it's more to, as hookitt said, promote nose-first inflation and keep the tail in place during opening. I think it helps with symmetry, as well. To that end, I'd say it helps reduce line twists and off-headings, rather than promote them (as one person asked), but that's just my theory.

I use two wraps of 1/4" masking tape, on only the brake lines, just below the attachment points. I don't do the Cs because A) I think the slider takes care of that and B) I'm using the tailgate or a rubberband on an inboard C for direct control on the slider. I am imagining some inconsistent snivels from keeping too much "closed" -- one thingy per line group says I. I think too much tape could lead to inconsistency in duration of openings and possibly heading. And too little would basically be like not having a tape gate at all. Again -- just my theories, but there are probably those out there that have evidence pertaining to such.

However, being that I don't jump anything that's super technical or critical yet, getting this specific doesn't mean much to me (though it does satisfy my geek side).

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[nicknitro71 0]

That's interesting. I guess I have to do some experimenting at bridge day...

Memento Audere Semper

903

[460 0]

Having started jumped prior to the invention of the tailgate, I have definitely noticed a significant improvement in opening heading quality with the use of the slider down tailgate. I have noticed the same for other jumpers.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[nicknitro71 0]

Does this mean you use the tailgate on slider up too? If so do you include the C lines too or just the D?

Thanks

Memento Audere Semper

903

[julesUK 0]

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It's not really to keep the lines taut.

I knew I'd get it wrong. Whatever Ron's motivation, a useful by-product of his (anally) neat tail flaking and masking tape is 2 little loops of extra control line held firmly in place above the masking tape and taut lines below.

On my Troll when I pack these inside the tailgate they start held up but slip a bit as the pack job progresses.

Ron's don't move and as he takes at least 2 fag breaks (English sense!) per packjob they have plenty of time to migrate. If I ever jump the Troll slider up I'll tape it.

Jules

[motherhucker 0]

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Anybody, what are the possible effects of tape on lines? I know that writing ink does effect the strenght of lines, so could glue do so as well? Hope not. Experiments usually lead to succes and to disaster...

Ronald Overdijk

If you're at all concerned about it, do what I do-- Wrap the tape sticky-side out.
mh

[TomAiello 25]

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If you're at all concerned about it, do what I do-- Wrap the tape sticky-side out.

I do that also. RH (the sometimes unpopular one) showed me that trick. That way the tape sticks in place on the F-111 (not sure if there are issues there or not, but I'm not too worried about it), which keeps the whole bundle nicely centered relative to the rest of the pack job.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com