Is it ok to lie.....

[Waikikamukau 0]

...about the number of jumps on a BASE canopy you are selling?

I have bought skydiving canopies before that I was pretty sure had more jumps on them than the sellers said. With skydiving you get a second chance with your reserve. It makes the decision on whether or not I want a particular canopy above my head a whole lot easier. With a BASE canopy, that's it! That's all you get, just one shot. Don't you want to know exactly what you have above your head? If you were selling to a newbie wouldn't you feel better knowing they left with all the information available to them and had every chance of surviving and not becoming the next statistic and potential black mark against BASE jumping?
In my opinion there is a big difference between 30 jumps and 120+ jumps when it comes to a BASE canopy. Lying about the number of jumps on a BASE canopy makes you a greedy, unethical liar. Do you have no respect at all for the other folk who find themselves dreaming of launching off that glorious B in the early dawn hours? The number of people who BASE in the world is so small that I feel extremely privelidged and fortunate to be part of it. Is it too hard to be honest with each other and not tell lies for the sake of a few extra dollars?

sickened

[BASE813 0]

jesus dude! you sound very bitter!!! - has someone stuck you one?!

i think generally BASE jumpers are more honest then skydivers when selling gear............ and more ethical......... (how many skydivers sell a small canopy to people that should not be on them???? never mind if they take off 200 jumps from the total!!!!!

I need to sell my kit to pay for some new kit but refused to sell it to someone (for various reasons)

in fact this post reminds me - maybe i should post my UK one here for opinion??!?!

[Treejumps 0]

In most cases I would say caveat emptor... however many people just don't know how many jumps are on gear. Realistically, jump number is not a great indicator of gear value. All gear should be inspected for integrety and airworthiness by its user. If you don't know how to inspect gear, maybe BASE is just a bit over your head. You are correct, in BASE you have only one canopy so make sure its a good one, or at least just dodgy enough to get through one more jump.

Tree

BASE610

[TomAiello 25]

In my opinion you shouldn't buy BASE gear without inspecting it first. If someone isn't willing to ship it to a rigger (or you, with a deposit) to inspect, I wouldn't buy it.

I've sent full rigs out on at least five occasions to buyers I'd never met (I did check their references), who sent me a check as a deposit. The rigs came back fine every time.

Inspect the gear, and know what you're looking at. Or if you don't find someone who does, and have them do the inspection. Generally, the original manufacturer will perform this service (and even act as an intermediary in the sale) for a fee.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Waikikamukau 0]

I wasn't the one getting burned in this instance. I just found out that someone I had a lot of respect for is trying to sell a canopy to anyone who'll be suckered into believing the fabricated history he's telling it has. He knows very well it's true history.

I completely agree that you should get a thorough gear inspection before buying or jumping a rig. I just can't believe how a person can rationalize to themselves that it's ok to lie and cheat someone for a few extra dollars. Oh I know it happens everyday in life but c'mon, that canopy is the only thing between the most exhilirating thing you'll ever do and the last thing you'll ever do.

Yes in skydiving it happens all the time and people do end up under canopies they shouldn't be under. The BASE community does such a great job of defending itself and arguing that BASE is not skydiving well prove it. We've earned the right to declare ourselves pioneers and explorers of an experience only a handful have ever done. Extraordinary on this earth. Be nice to each other Dammit!

[TomAiello 25]

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I wasn't the one getting burned in this instance. I just found out that someone I had a lot of respect for is trying to sell a canopy to anyone who'll be suckered into believing the fabricated history he's telling it has. He knows very well it's true history.

Have you considered wandering over to BLiNC and posting the whole story, with names?

That might get the gear known, and allow both sides of the story to be told.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[SickMonkey 0]

Howdy,

I am based out of Minnesota and I can tell you from experience that the amount of jumps on a canopy, no matter its application, does not mean shit. A canopy here in Minnesota with 500 jumps or more will look better than a canopy jumped in desert for 50. The point is, not only is a visual inspection necessary, but knowing where the canopy was primarily jumped will help you assess whether it is worth your time to ship it for that visual inspection.

Thanks

[motherhucker 0]

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A canopy here in Minnesota with 500 jumps or more will look better than a canopy jumped in desert for 50.

That's just plain wrong.
500 jumps on a BASE canopy relegates it to the skydiving world--no matter where it has been jumped.
Yes, the desert is harder on a canopy, but only to a point. A well looked after canopy in Moab will last just as long as the same canopy in MN or wherever else.

[Waikikamukau 0]

I mentioned before that not only have the number of jumps been lied about but also the canopy's entire history. Of course the number of jumps is not the only indication of a canopy's condition. That's not my point here.

Greedy, cheating, wannabe-BASE-God, liars are my point.

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I am based out of Minnesota and I can tell you from experience that the amount of jumps on a canopy, no matter its application, does not mean shit.

Well I can tell you that it does. Every jump, every deployment puts stresses on the canopy. Terminal? Sub? Many variables and certainly not the only thing to consider.

As I said before: What's above your head on a BASE jump is all you've got.


When you rent a rig from a supplier they ask you to tell them if it lands in the water. Not so they can charge you extra but so they can give potential buyers an honest account of what the rig has been through. This is not a bicycle where your pedal might fall off and you'll smack your shin.

[K763 0]

Here's some info from a manufacturer's point of view:

Yes, jump numbers do count, as well as if the parachute has been landed in the water or not, and how many times, and if it was fresh water or salt water. These things all contribute to the wear and tear on a parachute, and how quickly the fabric degrades.

We value used gear by deducting so much per jump, so much more per water jump, and so much even more per salt water jump. We always inspect the gear for airworthiness and the fabric is checked for how porous it's become up to this point. We don't use testing machinery or anything, but our excellent rigger will say if the fabric is becoming very porous and worn, or if there is a lot of weave shift separation, etc.

Being honest with jump numbers to the best of your ability on BASE gear is good karma. Anyone out there want bad Karma on their BASE gear? Didn't think so...

Karen
BR

[rfarris 1]

Sounds like you are convinced there is a bit of foul play going on. But is it possible there was a slight misunderstanding about the condition and jump #'s. I ask this because I just recently had a prospective buyer back out of a rig I was selling because either he didn't initially notice the jump #'s, or I miscommunicated (accidentally) to him.

And I would think most people who expect to sell gear, or buy gear sight unseen, would do so with the option of a full refund if found not to be what was expected, or advertised.

In a real world I believe we'd all be better off buying all new gear from a manufacturer and keeping that same gear until it's usefulness is no more. Then burning it. This way you'd know exactly what condition your canopy is in, and would never have to worry about buying someone else's clapped out stuff. But it does not happen that way. We want cheap.
Is there really that much of a bargain buying used? I say no, especially if you can't trust the person you are buying from.

[motherhucker 0]

In addition to K's post, I'd add the aount of slider up v. slider dn/off jumps is a factor for me...
mh

[skreamer 1]

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Have you considered wandering over to BLiNC and posting the whole story, with names?

How about posting the whole story with names in this forum.

[Faber 0]

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I'd add the aount of slider up v. slider dn/off jumps is a factor for me...

which one does count most?Might a stupied Q,but as a BASE jumper that only has made 1 slider up so far,and the rest (80+)has been slider off.

Should i start worry before a person who jumps slider up?
Thanks,and sorry i dont know about the slider up factor...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[base570 1]

Slider up will be harder on your lines than on the parachute itself. The slider zooming domn the lines will heat them up thus over time causing distortion of the lines and this distortion of the lines causes your canopy to come out of trim. I believe that slider down jumps are harder on the actual stitching on the parachute and not the lines. Just a thought though
As far as telling a perspective buyer how many jumps are on a canopy, the seller should tell them exactly how many jumps are on them. The buyers life might depend on it. Not only is it a good idea to keep track of jumps on a canopy for potential resale, it's a good idea to keep track for your own personal benefit. I know exactly how many jumps are on each of my 3 rigs, I can also tell you how many of the jumps were slider up or down, I even know how many jumps each PC has so after so many jumps I can start to think about getting a new one and keeping a record also helps me to determine if certain PC's are a factor in heading performance.
I think record keeping is a smart thing and I think honesty when selling gear is a smart thing. Unfortunatly we cannot rely on others to keep detailed records so as others have said a visual inspection will tell the tale that the seller won't.

Jason
BASE 570

PS-I would even tell a perspective buyer (if they inquired)which harness had my naked ass hanging from it, just in case they were some sort of homophobe and couln't handle the thought of touching the same stuff as another naked man!! Ha.

Naked BASE #15

[Faber 0]

Nice one thanks.

How long does PC´s last normaly? i have a 42´av zp pc which has 51jumps,and already(i think) starts to look like one i will replace werry soon.I just think that 51 jumps aint muchfor a pc,which never were in trees or like(no Quickdraw that were my 46´)

Stay safe out there,evrything else is borring,as you lay in bed

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[BASESlim 0]

G'day K,

So what's a 23 year old Pego that has 400- 500 BASE jumps after 15 years of skydiving with a frayed tail pocket, dodgy bridle attachment point, uneven home made brake settings and a split on the undersurface near the B line attachment point worth?

It's been in water more times than I can remember - salt and fresh. Even been dragged over barbed wire in a few instances (she really went to pieces on that stuff), but the holes are all repaired with gaff tape ....... on both sides! She flares like a wet fart but bloody hell she'll open on heading.

I borrowed $20 dollars to buy this little gem. You know for a while I was ripping quads slider down on that little baby! You just can't be shy on landing though its definitely a MAN's canopy.

Retro fit some vents and she'll be as good as new! Very sporty and a neat brown and orange colour well suited to video.

Buyers??????

[RayLosli 11]

Slim..... I cant believe you still have that Pegasus !
You jumped the hell out of that thing.
If you still own that thing.
You still must have that 220 Fury, I sold you for
$100 U.S. a few years back ?
A most reliable canopy for that Ozzy student, first jump Course.

...Ray Losli...

[RayLosli 11]

Slim...About used canopies, do you remember the old used, worn out, Round you owned back in the day.
I believe that was the same, Round you jumped off the local Antenna, with a 20 mph. tail wind.
One dark and moonless night.
That used canopy landed you well.
If you remember you did a nice PLF with a few good Tuck and Roll's.
That was another well invested $20 for a used canopy.
I miss those days.

...Ray...

[JohnnyUtah 0]

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We value used gear by deducting so much per jump, so much more per water jump, and so much even more per salt water jump.

Karen, would you mind sharing with us how much you would deduct for each jump/fresh water/salt water.

I think the method of deducting a $amount per jump serves as a good benchmark that can then be adjusted if appropriate according to the physical condition.

What does the BASE community think as far as how much to deduct per jump, per fresh water landing, per salt water landing?

Have Fun, Don't Die!
Johnny Utah
My Website
email:[email protected]

[Faber 0]

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What does the BASE community think as far as how much to deduct per jump, per fresh water landing, per salt water landing?

i once heard it rughly would be

Salt water= 50 jumps
Fresh Water=25 jumps

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[Treejumps 0]

I don't know how many jumps are on my gear. I can estimate, but that is about it. PCs? Can't even guess. Rigs? They won't fit anyone else so it doesn't really matter. Canopies? I bought one used and never asked about jump #'s and of the 2 new ones bought the 280 (RIP) is dead and the 310 just got back from major surgery, all good to go. Where do you find the time, energy, and motivation to store all that data, and then bother to go back and look at it?

Cya,

Tree

[base570 1]

What up Tree???
It's really very easy to keep track of all that stuff. I have my info in an Access Database. All I do is fill in the blanks or choose from a preset list after each jump and then I can sort them any way I want. It's nice but it's not for everyone. I like numbers, stats etc.

You guys making any road trips soon?
Jason
BASE 570

[Treejumps 0]

Yo Jason,

Just got in from the local tower. Heading to Eloy this Thurs. Got any contacts? I hear that there is a new tall E in the area, Hook a bro up. I know it is easy to log stuff, I am just too lazy, and I never go back and look at anything anyhow. I'm glad someone does though. You may figure something out with all that data.

Cya,

Tree

[motherhucker 0]

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Yo Jason,

Just got in from the local tower. Heading to Eloy this Thurs. Got any contacts? I hear that there is a new tall E in the area, Hook a bro up. I know it is easy to log stuff, I am just too lazy, and I never go back and look at anything anyhow. I'm glad someone does though. You may figure something out with all that data.

Cya,

Tree

Be careful with those cliffs in the desert states, Tree--I've heard grumblings that they bring you bad luck...
mh