Spectre openings - and opening times in general

[The111 1]

My Spectre 170 (1.1 WL) generally takes 1000-1200 feet to open. By packing slightly different (expose the slider more to the sides and tail and less over the nose, also leave the center cell of nose wide open and exposed), I have reduced that to 700-1000 feet.

I still feel this is a bit long. Any thoughts? I *did* search for previous posts on Spectres and found some, but none of them answered my other question:

How should I measure my deployment distance? I usually do from the time I touch hackey to when I'm fully seated, but someone else said I should do from the time I let go of hackey to the time I'm fully seated... I guess the toss could account for 100-200 feet. I'm going to try to get more accurate numbers this weekend.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[gus 1]

I would have thought that measuring line stretch to full inflation was better since that's the stage which is going to vary by canopy and packing method.

My Spectres never took anything like 1000 ft to open - more like half that.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[rigging65 0]

What's wrong with 700-1000 ft. openings? Enjoy not having your back and neck in pain!

My Xaos routinely takes 1000 ft. to open (or more) and it's like butter every time. Just smile, relax and enjoy the ride!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[darkwing 4]

As long as you are clear as to when you start the altitude clock ticking I can't complain much, but as stated previously, I think line stretch to open is a better measurement. I think that you are realistically looking at 500-700 feet opening when measured by more conventional means. This does not seem problematic to me.

If you want it to open faster you might contact PD and ask what effect altering the brake setting might have. There is no automatic answer to how this will alter openings in general.

I love my spectre.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[The111 1]

Yeh, I see what you guys mean about the measuring method... all I know is if I pull at 3000 I can be open under 2000 which I don't like. The obvious solution is to pull above 3000. :)

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[ZoneRat 0]

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Yeh, I see what you guys mean about the measuring method... all I know is if I pull at 3000 I can be open under 2000 which I don't like. The obvious solution is to pull above 3000. :)

I've been on sorta-big ways (30ish-ways) where the organizers stated that to be on that dive you must not pull above 2k. That's when you really don't want a 1200' snivel.

I wonder if it would be better to state it this way:

"You should know the snivel of your canopy. Pitch wherever you want, but no one is to be open and saddled above 1500'."

Because, after all, it's not when you deploy that creates a lethal hazard, it's when you're open, right? I mean, sure, the snivel stands you up and slows you down some, but does that make for a lethal hazzard or does it? I'm not sure I buy this line of thought.

Probably the best thing is to find a way to make that puppy open in 600'. Bigger PC. Omit a line stow or two. Don't roll or sink the nose... Whatever smart people say to do.

Be systematic with your changes though. Sneak up to that 600'.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[The111 1]

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Probably the best thing is to find a way to make that puppy open in 600'. Bigger PC. Omit a line stow or two. Don't roll or sink the nose... Whatever smart people say to do.

That was kinda the point of this post. :) Any smart people have suggestions? I already stated what I do with my nose... I've thought about leaving the center *3* cells open/exposed a bit instead of just the center one. Dunno about the PC or line stow idea, but I'll look into it.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[bch7773 0]

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Any smart people have suggestions? I already stated what I do with my nose... I've thought about leaving the center *3* cells open/exposed a bit instead of just the center one.

I assume by this you mean you roll the cells on either side of the center cell and stuff the center cell in? Thats how I pack my triathalon... when I was jumping a spectre, I just stuffed the nose... didn't roll anything, and it opened fine.

or did you mean you stuff in all the cells except for the center one, which you leave hanging out? Im not an expert in any way, but this wouldn't sound right, leaving parts of the nose just hanging out.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[AndyMan 7]

I would be very surprised if you're getting anywhere near a 1000-1200 foot openings. I'd recomend having somebody video them so that you can get accurate numbers.

Myself, I was getting 1200 foot openings, my canopy would be for sale.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[The111 1]

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I assume by this you mean you roll the cells on either side of the center cell and stuff the center cell in? Thats how I pack my triathalon... when I was jumping a spectre, I just stuffed the nose... didn't roll anything, and it opened fine.

or did you mean you stuff in all the cells except for the center one, which you leave hanging out? Im not an expert in any way, but this wouldn't sound right, leaving parts of the nose just hanging out.

I didn't ever roll any cells to begin with. Now I go a step further and before pulling the tail around, I pull the center cell out a bit (instead of pushing it in) so it catches air faster). Someone suggested even leaving it outside of the tail, but I don't know about that, and wrapping the tail completely makes it easier to pack once on the ground.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[The111 1]

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I would be very surprised if you're getting anywhere near a 1000-1200 foot openings. I'd recomend having somebody video them so that you can get accurate numbers.

Myself, I was getting 1200 foot openings, my canopy would be for sale.
_Am

I guess I could be taking an incredibly long time to throw out or something, but there have been so many times where at 4200ft I put the alti in front of my face and my hand on the hackey. At 4000ft exactly I throw. When I am fully seated I check and am at 2800ft. I will check several more times this weekend to see if I'm deceiving myself somehow...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[meltdown 0]

We have a Spectre 190 at our DZ (rental gear) which I've jumped many times, and it opens just right (not too fast nor too slow). I test jumped a Safire 2 169 a couple weeks ago (packed by the same DZ packer), and it opened REALLY slow. I just sat there looking at it wondering if it would ever open. It did, of course. If what I've read is true, Safires and Triathlons are slow openers, but I'd never heard that about Spectres until now.

[davelepka 4]

I see you jump in Deland. Have someone from PD jump it to see if anything unusual is happening (I doubt it).

If you really want to speed it up, ask PD for a smaller slider.

Keep the old one though, you'll want it back eventaully.

[Rdy2skydive 0]

My Spectre opens in 1000-1200 feet if my packer packs it and in about 700 feet if I pack it. It's always a nice soft opening. Much better than my Sabre 2 that often used to yank me and then pitch to the right.

[KCJumper 0]

When i was jumping my Spectre i didn't push the nose in. I would just let it lie where it was. Nice soft openings in about 500'-700'. Never had any problems.

Patrick

[DALAILAMA 0]

I know people are different and have different opinions, however, I would never suggest leaving the center cell on the outside of the tail, I do like the idea of either a zp pilot chute or a smaller slider to help.

"Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form"

[andy2 0]

[QUOTE]If you really want to speed it up, ask PD for a smaller slider.[/QUOTE]

I'd recomend just asking PD what to do about the canopy instead of asking for a smaller slider. In some cases a smaller slider can actually slow down the opening further due to the slider reefing the canopy more drastically while sniveling.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[apley 0]

my last spectre was a 150 (i am about 160#), and it opened PERFECTLY, (around 600 ft) in my opinion and comfort level.

after breaking my leg in lost prairie, i UPsized to a 170 spectre. COMPLETELY different opening.... the 170 snivels for as much as a 1000 ft, depending on what i do with the slider... ie., pulling it out the tail side more to speed it up.

the f*ed up thing is, i end up struggling to keep it on heading and keep it out of line twists quite often. i've had the lines inspected and the brake lines brought back to factory spec, and that did help, but i'm starting to believe that i am just not loading it enough.

spectres are noted for consistent, pleasant openings, and that was my experience on the 150. i am playing with my packing and it does change my experience, but the 170 is unpredictable; presumably due to the loading, but hard to say which variable to really pin it on.

my suggestion, because it has helped me, is to consult your rigger frequently, and get his/her advice, taking small steps in changes so you can identify the variable that gives you what you want. the spectre is an awesome canopy, and will get consistent once you find that magic place.

at least when clinton lied, nobody died.

[tbrown 26]

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When i was jumping my Spectre i didn't push the nose in. I would just let it lie where it was. Nice soft openings in about 500'-700'. Never had any problems.

What he said. As I don't own a rig yet I rent a lot of demo gear and jumped a lot of different 210 and 230 Spectres (I'm a big guy with a 240 lb exit weight). I pro pack and never do anything special with the nose and just basically quarter the slider. I typically throw out my pilot anywhere below 3 grand after clearing myself and waiving off, so about 2800 ft. And I'm consistently sitting in at 2200-2300 ft, after an opening that's like falling into bed, so I guess I'm using up 500-600 ft. Anything that's taking a grand or more to open sounds pretty dodgy to me. If you get too used to those long openings, what will you do the day it finally decides it doesn't feel like opening ? The things open so softly, you should be able to expect about 700 ft max - and get it.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[aneblett 0]

Exactly!

I agree.

Adrian

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[aneblett 0]

111,

Though some people may have had different experiences with the Spectre mine has been the same as yours. Even if your measurement of how long the opening takes isn't technically accurate, they do take longer than other canopies to open. You aren't imagining anything. Though I have never owned one I did borrow a friends for several jumps(15+) one season. He warned me not to pull low. He stated that "if it looks like it is just going to keep sniveling look and reach for your handles, she knows to open then" He as making a joke of course but once or twice that is what I did. My experience is they take 700-1100 feet to open. The openings are soft as a down-filled duvet but it does take its time. I have pulled at 2500 and only been ready to go at 1300, which coupled with the fact that it wants to find the ground slightly faster than a nine-cell can give you a start if you aren't expecting it.If this bothers you, I would say that the canopy isn't for you.

When others are talking about getting a spectre I caution them about the length of the openings. Coming from an engineering background I see the length in openings as a tradeoff for the soft and on-headingness (made up the word) of them.

I have talked to several others that fly them and have come to the conclusion that this is pretty much the norm. You can shorten them up sometimes but I think it depends on more than just your packing technique.

age

S.E.X. party #2

..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it.

[fool 0]

yep, that would be my old spectre... I told everyone that was about to try it for the first time, that reaching for your handles was what made it open, jsut to prepare them for the length of the snivel... personally, I loved the canopy....

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[sundevil777 94]

Have you tried unstowing the brakes while it snivels?

I had a ParaFlite Astrobe that would not open until I unstowed the brakes. It worked every time. I would not have been able to do it reliably without 'stay open' toggles so they were easy to grab.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[andybr6 0]

I had exactly the same problem as you, my spectre 210 would reguarly take 1000ft to open but after some excellent advice from the good people on DZ.com and my rigger i think i figured it out. I leave the nose sticking out bias the slider towards the tail and only put one very loose roll in the tail. Then when it opens and goes into that long snivel i pump the rear risers a few times and the speeds the opening up. I reckon i can normally be open between 600-800 ft.
I experimented with a few things before this but it seems to me that this has given the best results.

------------------------------------------------

"All men can fly, but sadly, only in one direction"

[The111 1]

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I had exactly the same problem as you, my spectre 210 would reguarly take 1000ft to open but after some excellent advice from the good people on DZ.com and my rigger i think i figured it out. I leave the nose sticking out bias the slider towards the tail and only put one very loose roll in the tail. Then when it opens and goes into that long snivel i pump the rear risers a few times and the speeds the opening up. I reckon i can normally be open between 600-800 ft.
I experimented with a few things before this but it seems to me that this has given the best results.

Thanks Andy, I'll try those extra things.

As for my tests this weekend, on every single jump I checked, it was *exactly* (damn close at least) 1000 feet from hackey toss to seated. That was using only the slider and nose trick... I'll try rolling the tail less (though I only roll 2-3 times as it is) and the pumping risers trick sounds worth a try too.

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