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niall1

Wingsuit Soaring

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I am crying here.:D

I know you're trolling on purpose but it's still gold.



Actually you are the only one trolling here Jakee, using nasty words to describe someone who dont share the same ideas as you.

This is an interesting topic, lots can be learned from people with different way of thinking, so stop trolling and ruining the topic...
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Hi Lukeh, you are ccirrect, My software calculated it on both sides thats why double value of 4.2sqm, so dived that for 2 the area is 2.1sqm.

Some acro/speed hanggliders are only 7sqm and they can soar easily, but you have to add 30kg to your weight (hangglider weight) ence the wingsuit is far lighter and only carry the pilot weight, therefore even being smaller the wingsuit will have a very good efficiency.



you have no fucking clue, a 7sqm speedrider probably weighs less than 10kg's, that's including harness.. :S



Another nut case speaking nonsense, jesus this forum has some crazy crazy people LOL

Love which speed hangglider weight less than 10kg? please show me and I will go buy it today =)



gin nano, 9.5sqm weighs 2.2kg's, as seen here: http://www.gingliders.com/speedflying/speedriding-gliders/nano/#top

random, all-purpose harness, 2.4kg's, as seen here: http://www.gingliders.com/speedflying/harnesses/speedride/

combined weight, hold on, gotta fire up my CAD, 9.2kg's, oh fuck it, it's only 4.6kg's!

mhm; have you put your order in already!?

and as far as the nutcase goes; at least i was able to prove my point..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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Actually you are the only one trolling here Jakee, using nasty words to describe someone who dont share the same ideas as you.



The only thing I've said about you is that you're an ignorant non jumper. This is absolutely true. You don't jump, and you know nothing about aerodynamics, modern wingsuit design or the 2 times table.

Everything else I've said has been directed at your idea's, which are so self evidently factually wrong and deluded that the only possible conclusion is that you're purposefully (and quite successfully) trolling the forum.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Actually you are the only one trolling here Jakee, using nasty words to describe someone who dont share the same ideas as you.



The only thing I've said about you is that you're an ignorant non jumper. This is absolutely true. You don't jump, and you know nothing about aerodynamics, modern wingsuit design or the 2 times table.

Everything else I've said has been directed at your idea's, which are so self evidently factually wrong and deluded that the only possible conclusion is that you're purposefully (and quite successfully) trolling the forum.


“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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The only thing I've said about you is that you're an ignorant non jumper. This is absolutely true. You don't jump, and you know nothing about aerodynamics, modern wingsuit design or the 2 times table.

Everything else I've said has been directed at your idea's, which are so self evidently factually wrong and deluded that the only possible conclusion is that you're purposefully (and quite successfully) trolling the forum.



Actually the your description about me in this post "Everything else I've said has been directed at your idea's, which are so self evidently factually wrong and deluded that the only possible conclusion is that you're purposefully (and quite successfully) trolling the forum" is exactly what I think about you.

I invite anyone to have a look Jakee's post and my replies since his first post on this topic.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Hi Lukeh, you are ccirrect, My software calculated it on both sides thats why double value of 4.2sqm, so dived that for 2 the area is 2.1sqm.

Some acro/speed hanggliders are only 7sqm and they can soar easily, but you have to add 30kg to your weight (hangglider weight) ence the wingsuit is far lighter and only carry the pilot weight, therefore even being smaller the wingsuit will have a very good efficiency.



you have no fucking clue, a 7sqm speedrider probably weighs less than 10kg's, that's including harness.. :S



Another nut case speaking nonsense, jesus this forum has some crazy crazy people LOL

Love which speed hangglider weight less than 10kg? please show me and I will go buy it today =)



gin nano, 9.5sqm weighs 2.2kg's, as seen here: http://www.gingliders.com/speedflying/speedriding-gliders/nano/#top

random, all-purpose harness, 2.4kg's, as seen here: http://www.gingliders.com/speedflying/harnesses/speedride/

combined weight, hold on, gotta fire up my CAD, 9.2kg's, oh fuck it, it's only 4.6kg's!

mhm; have you put your order in already!?

and as far as the nutcase goes; at least i was able to prove my point..



My love, what you are talking about is a paraglider, we are talking about acro/speed hangglider NOT a paraglider, hence doesn't exist hangglider with less than 10kg, a paraglider for sure, I have one that weight 2kg only. Are you reading correctly what we were talking about? "Face palm"
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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Hi Lukeh, you are ccirrect, My software calculated it on both sides thats why double value of 4.2sqm, so dived that for 2 the area is 2.1sqm.



Cool, that makes sense and sounds resonably accurate. Can you run the same calculation on the same body size in a Birdman Classic(like this yellow suit http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=98883;t=search_engine), and also without any wingsuit?

I'd be interested to compare the 3 to see how far we've come since 1999.

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Hi Lukeh, you are ccirrect, My software calculated it on both sides thats why double value of 4.2sqm, so dived that for 2 the area is 2.1sqm.



Cool, that makes sense and sounds resonably accurate. Can you run the same calculation on the same body size in a Birdman Classic(like this yellow suit http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=98883;t=search_engine), and also without any wingsuit?

I'd be interested to compare the 3 to see how far we've come since 1999.



I can try... I'm at work and I haven't got the program on this laptop, I will try later at home.
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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The only thing I've said about you is that you're an ignorant non jumper. This is absolutely true. You don't jump, and you know nothing about aerodynamics, modern wingsuit design or the 2 times table.

Everything else I've said has been directed at your idea's, which are so self evidently factually wrong and deluded that the only possible conclusion is that you're purposefully (and quite successfully) trolling the forum.



Actually the your description about me in this post "Everything else I've said has been directed at your idea's, which are so self evidently factually wrong and deluded that the only possible conclusion is that you're purposefully (and quite successfully) trolling the forum" is exactly what I think about you.



No it isn't. You know you're wrong, you're just trolling again.

You said wingsuits are not far from 10m^2. Factually wrong to an unbelievable degree.

You said a wingsuit of a 6ft person would be over 4m^2. Factually wrong to a very large degree.

You said wingsuit aspect ratio is increasing. factually wrong.

You said human arms move in a very simlar way to bird wings. Factually wrong to any degree that is meaningful in this context.

You said wingsuits are more efficient aerofoils than paragliders. Factually wrong to a very large degree.

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I invite anyone to have a look Jakee's post and my replies since his first post on this topic.



Please do. Point out any mistake you think I've made. Let's see how we compare.:D
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Hi Lukeh, you are ccirrect, My software calculated it on both sides thats why double value of 4.2sqm, so dived that for 2 the area is 2.1sqm.



Remember my cartoon earlier, which found 1.75sqm that using only pencil, paper, arithmetic, and geometry?

That was for a 170cm height (average male). If I had chosen 185cm like you...

1.75sqm (185/170)^2 = 2.1sqm

Hey look, math really does work! ;)
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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Cool, that makes sense and sounds resonably accurate. Can you run the same calculation on the same body size in a Birdman Classic(like this yellow suit http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=98883;t=search_engine), and also without any wingsuit?



Since my earlier cartoons using only math and paper found the same numbers, I will use my eyeballs and make a bit of a WAG (which is more than enough for my purposes here):

Human body: 0.5sqm
With baggy jumpsuit: 0.6-0.7sqm
Early wingsuit: 1.2sqm
Modern wingsuit: 2sqm
(all numbers for an ABOVE average height male)

+/- 20% for my eyeballs not being perfect.

More precision is not needed IMO. If it was I'd spend the time sketching it out in CAD also. Bottom line, all numbers are far less than we need for soaring.
www.WingsuitPhotos.com

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So in 13 years taking all of the low hanging fruit we've managed to increase area by .8sqm and seem to be approaching the limits of what humans can handle for a couple of minutes without mechanical assistance.

If it were possible to keep that rate of increase it would only take another 130 years to get to 10sqm or 65 years to get to 6sqm. But even that is just silly, trees don't grow to the sky ;)

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Human body: 0.5sqm
With baggy jumpsuit: 0.6-0.7sqm
Early wingsuit: 1.2sqm
Modern wingsuit: 2sqm
(all numbers for an ABOVE average height male)
+/- 20% for my eyeballs not being perfect.

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Hey, ummm.. Guys.

Click on this link, it's really really really cool. It's also incredibly impressive, quite beautiful and ummm... real.

http://vimeo.com/34361079

If you think you can do better, please, please, please, just learn how to sew and show us. If you succeed, I guarantee you we would celebrate your success just like we celebrate what Robi and others have accomplished.

And if you can't handle the fact that some people don't know what they are talking about when it comes to wingsuit design, than console yourself in the fact that some people do and they make some pretty badass products and videos for you to buy and watch respectively.

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Well, sure, Simon - but dreamers are bounded by the laws of physics and currently available technologies and materials. If that wasn't the case, I'd be filming Quidditch matches, not you guys - they would be more interesting.

Is it possible that future technologies could arise that could be light weight enough and strong enough to create a strong but flexible frame, which would somehow augment the body strength of the wearer enough to hold his arms open as he flies and permit a large enough surface area as a wing without ripping the dude's arms off and while giving him control? Sure. It's conceivable that someday this technology could exist. Do we have anything close to those technologies available to us now? Not yet. Despite lots of advances in materials science, we aren't close. The challenges that physics imposes on us on soaring are daunting, and we don't have anything that could offer up a solution yet.

This whole thread has taken a hard left turn into the silly because people keep casting it as a battle between "dreamers" and "practical folks who have a lick of sense about aerodynamics". But I think that split doesn't do the conversation justice. It depends on your point of view - 50 years from now, I think something like the concept that DaVinci (sorry Giselle, he got there first) was talking about could exist. It probably wouldn't look anything like Giselle's designs, and it would require materials with properties that don't exist now (no, carbon fibre won't do the trick). But if any one thinks that it's going to happen in the next 10 years or so... Well... I'd point you to the stash of Popular Mechanics magazines I have saved from when my dad was 10 years old (the early 1950s). Lots of stuff that they dreamed about has come about (usually not in the way predicted). But also lots of it hasn't come about yet, unless I missed it when they handed out commuter passes for the jet packs that we all use to fly home to our nuclear-powered condos under the sea on the way back from our jobs on the moon.

Physics doesn't make "soaring in a wingsuit" impossible - technology makes it impossible at present. But I'd go further to add that anything sufficiently advanced to actually soar would be so far removed from current technology that calling it a "wingsuit" would be an anachronism... So, in that sense, it won't be a "wingsuit", it will be super high tech soaring suit. My guess? 30 to 50 years out, minimum.

Until then, it might as well be Quidditch.
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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Well... I'd point you to the stash of Popular Mechanics magazines I have saved from when my dad was 10 years old (the early 1950s). Lots of stuff that they dreamed about has come about (usually not in the way predicted). But also lots of it hasn't come about yet, unless I missed it when they handed out commuter passes for the jet packs that we all use to fly home to our nuclear-powered condos under the sea on the way back from our jobs on the moon.
.



Funny you should mention this; this thread had me thinking of my youth when we were promised that trips to the moon would be commonplace by the 80's, that the military would be using DeathRays instead of bullets by the 80s, that we'd all have air-cars by 2000.
Living underwater was going to be even more common than going to the moon. Remember LaChaloopa?

Humans one day may find a more appropriate evolution of the body and materials, but right now the discussion is more akin to Benjamin Franklin's kite and key vs nuclear reactors.
Dreams are great.
These are more fantasies of flight.
How's that saying go about "pigs flying?"

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Skwrlbrother, this thread may have taken a hard left, but reading it was so much fun.
This is the second time Giselle has popped in and proceeded in the most hilariously condescending fashion to tell every actual wingsuit pilot that disagrees with her that they are ignorant and speaking nonsense. Backing this up with the apparent sincere position that she knows what we will and will not be capable of far better than we who do it, based on her experience flying other things, Bio background, and speaking from actual experience or knowledge of wingsuit flight of exactly... nothing.

I could steal this and use it as a comedy gag, man. I'm gonna go pick an argument with Danica Patrick on the internet and tell her she speaks nonsense when she tells me about realities of racing.

Even though I've never been behind the wheel of anything like a real race car in my life and never been on a track, I'm gonna tell her I know far better than she what racers will be able to do in the future because I'm a mechanic and I know stuff about wheels. Its like one of those jerk gag reels I used to hear on the radio from that station in Boston.

Giselle, when I get to the touchy parts of my latest little wingsuit design project, I will be sure to call on you and your superior knowledge of the interior of a chicken to tell me how I really ought to be doing it.

Thank you for your contribution to our community. Its not the contribution you wanted to make, but it is appreciated, nonetheless.
-B
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

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This is for everyone participating in this thread. Save the drama/playground antics for some place else, if you want to pull each others hair, do it elsewhere. Giselle, et all, stop with the you said/he said crap. If you cannot have a discussion without calling each other names stop posting. I know it must be boring in the UK right now with not much jumping going on but it doesn't give anyone the right to violate the rules. Stay on topic and stay away from anything that could even be considered a PA. Failure to do so will result in a lengthy banning, again, that goes for everyone. You have been warned so don't get butt hurt when you find yourself banned from the forum. That is all, carry on with the topic.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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This is the second time Giselle has popped in condescending fashion to tell every actual wingsuit pilot that disagrees with her...

I could steal this and use it as a comedy gag, man..... she speaks nonsense ......

........ Its like one of those jerk gag reels I used to hear on the radio from that station in Boston.

Giselle, when I get to the touchy parts of my latest little wingsuit design project, I will be sure to call on you and your superior knowledge of the interior of a chicken to tell me how I really ought to be doing it.

Thank you for your contribution to our community. Its not the contribution you wanted to make, but it is appreciated, nonetheless.

-B



As usual lurch can't have a conversation without personal insults and also making false suggestions. The words/ sentences in underline is to enlight your insults the ones in bold is your false assumptions as usual as not every pilot here disagree with me. You been told to back off of this type of false aff in the old topic but you still persist, expected.

I believe wungsuits will soar one day, you don't and you insults who does. Lets wait and see what the future holds, maybe I'm a stupid, ignorant with crap ideas as you and jake suggest. Even if you and jake are right about me, I'm still happy to be a dreamer :)
For the novices not very familiar with soaring we are talking about, here is a video of me done yesterday soaring a mini paraglider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uwz70N_vOQ
Lauren Martins - www.youtube.com/user/gisellemartins20

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