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jc1513

XRW risers

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in reply to " be careful. There is more to XRW than risers"
..........................................

A bit off topic praps, but has a wingsuiter tried using XRW risers flying a canopy at the same time they're still flying the wingsuit?
Is it possible ?
just wondrin...

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Please be very careful in who you would attempt to make this jump with. Things can go bad real quick if both of you if are not extremely experienced.



Shame that one video with collision was taken offline...everyone only shows the glory moments. Nobody wants to see a 'wingsuit wrapped in a canopy' fatality. Be careful for sure..
JC
FlyLikeBrick
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I'm saying there have briefly been some videos online of canopy/wingsuit collisions during XRW attempts. One with damage to the wingsuit (tore wing/gripper). Also several guys with high performance canopies/heavy wingload and issues releasing the trimmed risers at lower altitude.

Those videos sadly where taken offline quickly, as they served a great example to show that its not all fun and games. Preventing a wrap/fatality from ever happening. If you're in freefall with a canopy wrapped around you, no silly plastic hookknife or AAD will be able to help you.
JC
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Hi,

Ill tell you a little bit about the XRW canopy pilots we fly with here in Lodi.

Tj Langreen, has more than 10.000 Jumps
Rob Pooley more than 6.000 Jumps
Zak T, more than 5.000

You should expect to fly at high wing loadings of 2.8 minimum and this can go higher way higher and I won't discus any of this in here.

So, you are not obligated to answer the fallowing. But I want you to ask your self the following

- What is the highest wing loading you have ever jump.
- How conformable where you with that wing loading.
- What is the highest wing loading in a spinning canopy you have ever experience.
- Would you be comfortable cutting away and deploying your reserve at that wing loading.
- What is the highest wing loading you have land your reserve under.
- Are you familiar with RDS.
- how quick are you with RDS.
- What is the smallest canopy you have jumped?
- How conformable are you in case you have to land that highly loaded canopy out?


Those are just some few things to think about.
Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

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you mean this?



No...but a good example of trimtabs.
Though great fun, Wingsuit Canopy formation flying should be concidered a stunt. And Im not sure online tips on how to do it are the best of things to do. Seeking experienced people out with personal and 1 on 1 guidence and assistance is a much better idea.
JC
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stunt?

Here in Lodi we are doing it on regular bases, we are turning point around the canopy. We are doing successful XRW jumps on every jump.

Hand dock, Foot Dock, surf, Foot Dock, Hand dock.

We are flying in between load with our messing around in the Dz operation. I think this could become a discipline with in our sport.
Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

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stunt?

Here in Lodi we are doing it on regular bases, we are turning point around the canopy. We are doing successful XRW jumps on every jump.

Hand dock, Foot Dock, surf, Foot Dock, Hand dock.

We are flying in between load with our messing around in the Dz operation. I think this could become a discipline with in our sport.
Medusa

Get Killed or Die Trying!
Patent pending ATFK15456

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Yes, stunt.
Motorcross guys make 100 ft jumps on a daily basis as well.
But that doesnt change the fact not every amateur with a motorcycle can/should do it.

Stunt is not a negative word. It just implies its not something any wingsuit pilot can just 'give a try'.
I see a lot of beginners asking about big wingsuits and XRW while they should be learning to fly closer to another persion in formation, instead of 6 ft apart, and learn to do fully in control docks on another wingsuit flyer.

For a lot of people, its very YouTube oriented. And they'd rather look cool doing dangerous stuff outside their skills envelope, than focus on the basics (like all FS and Freeflyers do) first.

Like you mentioned in your other post. Experience is important. Its not something just anyone who 'owns' a big suit can/should do. You need to have the experience to fly it, and than learn to fly it.
JC
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in reply to "Stunt is not a negative word. It just implies its not something any wingsuit pilot can just 'give a try'.
I see a lot of beginners asking about big wingsuits and XRW while they should be learning to fly closer to another persion in formation, instead of 6 ft apart, and learn to do fully in control docks on another wingsuit flyer. "
........................................

YES, it is a very dangerous stunt for the inexperienced wannabees you describe.
for other people doing it systematically, and with due caution, it appears to be developing into a sport.
Pretty amazing one at that.
There is a good chance this crossover sport, ie XRW , could produce new unique equipment eg imagine if the canopy and WS were mutated into one thing. sort of a canopy/wingsuit.
Not a good idea to stand in the way of progress.

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For a lot of people, its very YouTube oriented. And they'd rather look cool doing dangerous stuff



aaah i understand, thats why you don´t wear a helmet while wingsuiting in groups in your videos, to inspire the youtube generation...:):(

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And they'd rather look cool doing dangerous stuff outside their skills envelope, than focus on the basics (like all FS and Freeflyers do) first.



that is also very funny. so you have never seen fs or freeflyers joining bigger groups than they should cause of lack of skill or awareness?
well you might not know but as sad as it is, idiots are everywhere, you find them in every disciplin and in every profession. only thing you can do is to educate them when you run into them on a dropzone or in the end not allow them to join you in a too challenging jump.

but changing their stupid behaviour here on the internet? by not showing awesome and inspiring videos that are pushing our disciplin forward? i love to see what my friends in lodi do and yes its not for everyone, but so isn´t what we see in videos from swooping competitions or the snowboarding in the art of flight dvd that just came out.

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Shame that one video with collision was taken offline...everyone only shows the glory moments. Nobody wants to see a 'wingsuit wrapped in a canopy' fatality. Be careful for sure..



so it was a shame as well that the wingsuit/ canopy collision that happened on the last flock and dock didn´t make the event video (only glory moments as well hah?)? this video as well shows what happens when breakoffs go terribly wrong and we all have seen it but nobody posted it cause you asked everybody not to.....

i agree its not a good idea to stand in the way of progress.
You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

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Not every design change and decrease in safety is 'progress'
Upsizing suits and dents in airplane tails have shown even a simple exit is already an issue for some. Lets try to crawl and learn to walk before we skip running and go straight for flying.

Rome wasnt built in a day...
JC
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aaah i understand, thats why you don´t wear a helmet while wingsuiting in groups in your videos,



No, its because I dont carry two helmets to boogies abroad and every once in a while jump without my heavy camera setup (and enjoy wind in my hair).
I also dont write 'jump without a helmet' tutorials on here. Those are jumps I do cause I like it. Im not saying on shouldnt do XRW. Just that we should be carefull not having every guy with 15 WS jumps in a huge suit aiming at canopies.

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that is also very funny. so you have never seen fs or freeflyers joining bigger groups than they should cause of lack of skill or awareness?



I think you'll find few freeflyers with 100 freefly jumps on their 100 way attempts, thats for sure:ph34r:. There are always idiots, but the general safety awareness and education is a lot more focussed on general skill and experience with the majority of the FS/FF community.

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but changing their stupid behaviour here on the internet? by not showing awesome and inspiring videos that are pushing our disciplin forward?



Where did I say that? The more videos the better!
But like first flights. Educate people responsibly in person if you want to learn/teach them how to do it. Im saying should educate people on the safety aspects and not give them a play by play to copy it. We need to do that more responsibly.

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so it was a shame as well that the wingsuit/ canopy collision that happened on the last flock and dock didn´t make the event video (only glory moments as well hah?)?this video as well shows what happens when breakoffs go terribly wrong and we all have seen it but nobody posted it cause you asked everybody not to.....



What ever you're trying. Try harder, as you couldnt be more wrong. I even asked if I could use the videos for a flight manual. I was all for posting those. My event video was only my footage. I cant decide to post other peoples footage (nor do I have it).

Im all for safety and all for progress, but we can we also be a bit sensible about how, and at what pace...
JC
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in reply to "Stunt is not a negative word. It just implies its not something any wingsuit pilot can just 'give a try'.
I see a lot of beginners asking about big wingsuits and XRW while they should be learning to fly closer to another persion in formation, instead of 6 ft apart, and learn to do fully in control docks on another wingsuit flyer. "
........................................

YES, it is a very dangerous stunt for the inexperienced wannabees you describe.
for other people doing it systematically, and with due caution, it appears to be developing into a sport.
Pretty amazing one at that.
There is a good chance this crossover sport, ie XRW , could produce new unique equipment eg imagine if the canopy and WS were mutated into one thing. sort of a canopy/wingsuit.
Not a good idea to stand in the way of progress.




+1

I remember a time where we were all flying body bags... We were all going to die... Virtually everyone at my DZ, Skydive City here in Zhills, Told me I was going to die.. I was dumb... we were all crazy! All This before Flock and Dock 1. Anyone else remember that? I remember a time where you could count the number of wingsuiters on the planet with the amount of suits now hanging in my team room. Now look where we all are. One thing that is for certain, is that change is the only constant in life, as well as our sport. WE ALL have come a long way TOGETHER, and I intend for us all to continue to do so. Dont anybody do anything stupid. If you want to get involved in this new growing discipline, Find someone qualified to learn from... This shit's not easy, Things go badly quickly, so do it the right way. But than again, neither was flying a wingsuit not all that long ago..

Now im back off to reality, ya'll discuss my opinion as much as you'd like.

That is all

Blues to all

Scotty Burns
Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer
Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory
www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography

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Oh, and all you Noobs LEARN TO FLY SMALL SUITS FIRST PLEASE? Just cause you have 100 wingsuit jumps doesn't mean you need the biggest suit you can get your hands on... that's a good way to turn it into what they used to call em, Body bags... its alot more fun to smoke someone in a bigger suit while your in a small one.. and stop hitting the freaking tail of the airplane!!!!!! an extra second on exit isn't going to screw up your GPS data that much that you wont still be glued to the damn screen when you land with all your body parts in tact! Thanks for playing.. :) Back to our regularly scheduled programming/flaming..
Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer
Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory
www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography

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